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Do you think ESO will eventually give in to the F2P or B2P model?

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  • quixadhalquixadhal Kalamazoo, MIPosts: 215Member

    Most of my friends agree with my assertion that the game is fun, but nothing new.. and not good enough to justify a full retail box price *AND* a subscription, especially with the unknown cash shop details hanging overhead.  I know one person who has said they have pre-ordered it, but they have a crazy level of disposable income and not much time, so they buy everything that comes out in the hopes it will be hold their attention for more than a few hours.

     

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by quixadhal

    Most of my friends agree with my assertion that the game is fun, but nothing new.. and not good enough to justify a full retail box price *AND* a subscription, especially with the unknown cash shop details hanging overhead.  I know one person who has said they have pre-ordered it, but they have a crazy level of disposable income and not much time, so they buy everything that comes out in the hopes it will be hold their attention for more than a few hours.

     

    There will be no cash shop.  It has already been stated.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Pyatra

    There will be no cash shop.  It has already been stated.

    There will be no cash shop, at launch.  No matter how successful a game is, there is generally a lot of turnover in the development team post launch, and just because the group in charge now isn't planning on a cash shop or a free option doesn't mean the group in six months will share that view, or the group in two years.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    I think it will go B2P/F2P with a subscription option.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Everyone seems to be avoiding the main issue with it going F2P.  What the F$&* are they going to even sell in  a cash shop.  You don't need retcons undoing skill morphs are already buyable in game, you get enough skill points for almost everything, mounts can be bought by gold and weird ones would ruin lore, you don't need large amount of mats or gold to craft, just time, bag/bank expansions are cheap and ingame, hell you can feed your horse for more bag expansion slots.  So the question is... can they make more money through aesthetic clothes alone or subscriptions?   Answer: subscriptions.  They have built a game that CANNOT handle a switch to F2P.  Most people who played in for any amount of time will probably realize this.
  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    I think it will go B2P within an year. But even then I won't buy it. I'll punish them for being jerks in the first place, with my wallet, aww yeahh 
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,068Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by yaminsux

    I wouldnt want ESO to be B2P/F2P.

    One Reason:

    Keeps whiny players out. I'll pay for that....seriously.

    OMG! Really? Did you even see the threads when WoW launched their Instant Level 90 Boost microtransaction? 

     

    Subscription players whine waaaaaaaaay more than F2P players. Sorry, that's just a fact. I've never seen more people saying that they're leaving a game, or entitled bullshit about how their whole time spent in a 10 year-old game is now somehow depreciated to a value of $60 like a bunch of cry babies. 

    It's not that black and white.

     

    There are whiners in all types of games. But what F2P games have more of is players who like to troll chat about how much the game sucks... it's a sport with some, just like it is here :)

    Absolutely agree that it is not that black and white. There are whiners in all games. The number of people that complained about WoW subscribers .... yeah.

    As for not wanting ESO to go B2P ....? Really? Is it free? Are you somehow not paying $60 or whatever. What you mean is you don't want it to go Free-to-Buy. (And I share that opinion.) 

    The question is: how should people pay for new content - because you don't need a sub for bug fixes, network stuff or customer support. What costs money is future content.  

    Ignoring micro-transactions the options are:

    • On an expansion by expansion basis - could be DLC packages every 6 or 8 weeks, could be EQ1 or GW1 say every 6 months. Or WoW sized every 2 years. Either way you buy the expansions you like as and when you need them. Looks like Destiny will have annual expansions - no more details other than no sub.
    • Or it could be via a subscription. You get expansions as and when they are released. Whether you need them or like them. And if you leave and come back after 12 months you will get 12 months worth for the cost of a 1 month sub. 
    • Or Zenimax could have an optional sub model like EA have for BF3, BF4 and the soon to be released Titanfall.
    Most games that have launched with a sub - going back several years now - have "not fulfilled their potential". They didn't sell enough out of the door, only a % subbed and most of those subsequently leave. If ESO sells as well as the latest GTA (35M+) it might have WoW type subs in 6 months time. But seriously .......
     
    I might play ESO once they have got the bugs worked out - I see no reason to struggle these days! But after a month or two whatever I will get bored and will move on. Not might: will. It won't be a matter of running out of content I will simply get bored and want a change. And I don't see myself as unique. Not only that I will stop paying a sub - as will others. In the same way that people who move from e.g. WoW to ESO will (probably) stop paying a sub to WoW. Yet why not pay a sub to WoW as well? Only (another) $15 a month, Blizzard have to pay the devs, blah, blah. You won't because we don't anymore.
     
    It is all comes down to  macro economics. About selling lots of boxes on day 1 - not something sub based games have a habit of doing - and then selling lots of extra content. Then stop and think about how The Sims works say. Now that is success. 
  • KattycakeKattycake Kansas City, KSPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan

    It's fundimentally unsustainable as a box price game with a subs fee and a cash shop (let alone the pre-order content lock-out paywall).

    TESO will go F2P at some point or will struggle to survive with a tiny subs base, this is inevitable. The modern MMORPG market is saturated to breaking point, on release they will get an incredible amount of players which will dwindle to almost nothing within 6 months once players have consumed all the content like locusts and moved on to the next feast.

    This is the fundimental flaw of linear, themepark MMO's, once the content is gone all that is left is the end game and if the PvP/Raiding is not utterly amazing, the game fails.

    People must realise this is the model, cash-in as much as possible at launch, pre-orders, cash-shop, subs fee's because once the rollercoaster grinds to a halt, the ride is over and everyone moves onto the next one.

     

    They'll be no cash shop or micro-transaction, says TESO, however this model you stated "cash-in at launch, pre-orders, consume content with 6-months, add f2p" I can see it implented but I'm now sure TESO will go with this. Especially since they announced no cash shop.

    xoxo

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,209Member Uncommon

    The game would be good at a 39,99 price tag with a 6,99 monthly sub. If on top of that they would manage to release an xpack every 8-12 month, i could see it going for a good while.

    But since this isn't the case, everyone who has followed the post-WoW era of mmorpgs knows what's going to happen. Starting with posts like "where is everybody?!", lay offs, F2P, you know the deal.

     

    image
  • seafirexseafirex gatineau, QCPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    F2P would not make sense at all but B2P that is a possibility. Hopefully it wont for a ling time, that would prove the game is successful but it can happen like any other game.

    Once the hype goes down and the players have played 1 to 2 or even 3 months we will see how many left and that will start giving the word if yes or no in the future it will go B2P.

     

  • ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/28/skyrim-sales-pass-20-million-as-lol-hits-27-million-a-day-4279983/

    So if that's the case, and let's say only 10% of those buyers are willing to pay sub fee for ESO...that's 2 million subscribers.

  • BeelzebobbieBeelzebobbie MalmöPosts: 429Member

    It all depends on content if players have done all that they can do in 2 months and there is nothing coming around the horizon, or maybe if PVP doesn't work they we people would like it to or get boared of it, then the population could drop fast.

    Otherwise I don't think it will be F2P or any other form. Personally the game it's not for me but for the people who love I think they will stay true to this game and keep their subcription model.

    I think this is one of the mmos that will go great this year. Besides EA isn't releasing it I hope then you will have nothing to worry about :)

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

    It all depends on content if players have done all that they can do in 2 months and there is nothing coming around the horizon, or maybe if PVP doesn't work they we people would like it to or get boared of it, then the population could drop fast.

    Otherwise I don't think it will be F2P or any other form. Personally the game it's not for me but for the people who love I think they will stay true to this game and keep their subcription model.

    I think this is one of the mmos that will go great this year. Besides EA isn't releasing it I hope then you will have nothing to worry about :)

    If I get boared I'll just sic my dogs on it

     

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Palm Springs, CAPosts: 152Member

    I despise people who so paranoid, that they see only doom and gloom ahead for any game, and this one particularly. I prefer to trust developers, or whoever in charge there. I prefer believe in their integrity, and trust their words. I would prefer to believe even people who bark at this game without rest, or day off, but I cannot understand what they want. I doubt even they understand that.

    Everyone is Nostradamus now.

    I have pleasure from though, that I found my game. I am completely, without any cancellation believe, that this game will be very good for me for long time.  I am not delusional. I simply believe, that I will be happier that way for all that time, during which you will be tore apart with all that suspicions and bad predictions, unsubstantiated demands and bad informed conclusions. I do not want to know future!

    Especially if I cannot change it!

    About that F2P inescapable future. Some extremely delusional people believe that if they repeat same things again and again with elevating conviction, those things will became a reality. Not me! No matter how would I like those people to shut up, I do not think it would happen even if I predict it 100 times in a row. However eventually death will take them, I think.

  • BanethBaneth Green Cove Springs, FLPosts: 3Member

    F2P in a year? Thats just great! Gives me a year to play the game.

    F2P isnt free to play at all. I know most people can understand that. Why would any company make a game so as not to make money?

    F2P just means a cash shop where people need to spend more than the game is worth. Much more than the $15 a month.

    I know theres a few, not many ,a very few who do not spend any money on F2P games, but rely on others to pay for there game. GG. Some has to be paying for the game, maybe not you, but someone does.

    I also find that in F2P games if your not using the cash shop, your just gimping yoursefl. I cant do that. maybe F2Players can. I just dont like knowing that for $10 her, and $5 there I can have the nice things. Maybe theres those who can. I know some people who like Ramen noodles. For there taste no less!

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon

    I always hate these conversations because the P2P players tend to say things about F2P and B2P which is either over exaggerated or just plain not true at all.

    They are essentially F2P haters. No matter how good the game is, if it is F2P .. they simply will not touch it, and claim the game is bad or a failure.

    Pretty stupid if you ask me.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I always hate these conversations because the P2P players tend to say things about F2P and B2P which is either over exaggerated or just plain not true at all.

    They are essentially F2P haters. No matter how good the game is, if it is F2P .. they simply will not touch it, and claim the game is bad or a failure.

    Pretty stupid if you ask me.

    How is that stupid? Its the truth.

    If a game launches which was designed from its conception to be a sub type game and in a few short months or even a year can't hold on to enough players to make ends meet, has to lay off most of the core staff, cut back on updates, merge servers and change their whole game to support the F2P model, I don't see this as a win. I don't even see how that sounds like a good game.

    How does this sound like a win to you?

    Back on topic and to OP.

    No. But who cares. If it does I won't be playing it because it would of failed me by the time it gets to that point where they need to do that.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon
    Absolutely and within 6-9 months.
  • askdabossaskdaboss LondonPosts: 631Member Common
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I always hate these conversations because the P2P players tend to say things about F2P and B2P which is either over exaggerated or just plain not true at all.

    They are essentially F2P haters. No matter how good the game is, if it is F2P .. they simply will not touch it, and claim the game is bad or a failure.

    Pretty stupid if you ask me.

    How is that stupid? Its the truth.

    If a game launches which was designed from its conception to be a sub type game and in a few short months or even a year can't hold on to enough players to make ends meet, has to lay off most of the core staff, cut back on updates, merge servers and change their whole game to support the F2P model, I don't see this as a win. I don't even see how that sounds like a good game.

    How does this sound like a win to you?

    Well it's either accept the transition F2P or you cannot play the game at all because the company closes completely. It's simple really.

    How does the second option (not playing at all because the game closed) sound like a win to you? I'd rather have something rather than nothing in this case, especially given the fact that if the F2P model is sustainable then clearly SOME people enjoy playing the game this way.

     

    As for the game becoming F2P, yes eventually, but I think it might not come as early as most think (1.5+ years if I had to guess).

  • IGaveUpIGaveUp NW, INPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..

     

    This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.

     

     

    I agree, of course with an assumption that I consider a major one.  How will the consolers accept the subscription monetization model?

     

    I don't know them or their purchase patterns well enough to even guess.  Clearly Zenimax is betting big-time that they'll like the game enough to stay subscribed.

     

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I always hate these conversations because the P2P players tend to say things about F2P and B2P which is either over exaggerated or just plain not true at all.

    They are essentially F2P haters. No matter how good the game is, if it is F2P .. they simply will not touch it, and claim the game is bad or a failure.

    Pretty stupid if you ask me.

    How is that stupid? Its the truth.

    If a game launches which was designed from its conception to be a sub type game and in a few short months or even a year can't hold on to enough players to make ends meet, has to lay off most of the core staff, cut back on updates, merge servers and change their whole game to support the F2P model, I don't see this as a win. I don't even see how that sounds like a good game.

    How does this sound like a win to you?

    Back on topic and to OP.

    No. But who cares. If it does I won't be playing it because it would of failed me by the time it gets to that point where they need to do that.

    Incorrect. Just because it wasn't able to hold enough subs, doesn't mean the game was bad. I like a lot of games that other people do not like ... that is just how things work because we all have different tastes. The fact people play even with the switch to F2P .. means they are doing something right. Crap games simply shut down. P2P, B2P, F2P .. if it's crap .. no one will touch it.

    Also, not all games start out as P2P and then switch to F2P. There are many that start out as F2P. Again the games are not bad. If they where bad then no one would even bother to play them.

    So no, it's not the truth and yes it is very stupid.

    People should simply play games because they are good, instead of playing based on the payment model. This goes for both sides. If a game was really good to me .. I would certainly pay a sub. I don't like subs, but that doesn't mean it woud hold me back from trying a game.

    Many P2P players on the other hand say they will not even touch a F2P game. Again .. that is stupid to me. Why would you not play a game simply because it's F2P? Not all F2P games have tons of advertising everywhere, and not all F2P games are bad.

  • KattycakeKattycake Kansas City, KSPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by seafirex

    F2P would not make sense at all but B2P that is a possibility. Hopefully it wont for a ling time, that would prove the game is successful but it can happen like any other game.

    Once the hype goes down and the players have played 1 to 2 or even 3 months we will see how many left and that will start giving the word if yes or no in the future it will go B2P.

     

    Interesting. A lot of people are saying "F2P" and that "B2P" isn't an option, since there have already been a bunch of buyers at launch. Not saying it isn't possible though.

    xoxo

  • gonewildgonewild albion, NYPosts: 130Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    It will not turn into B2P, B2P games launches like B2P, after that will almost all potential players already own a copy.

    F2P is possible, it really depends on if the players support the game or not.

    wrong secret world turned into b2p

  • EQBallzzEQBallzz Austin, TXPosts: 149Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I always hate these conversations because the P2P players tend to say things about F2P and B2P which is either over exaggerated or just plain not true at all.

    They are essentially F2P haters. No matter how good the game is, if it is F2P .. they simply will not touch it, and claim the game is bad or a failure.

    Pretty stupid if you ask me.

    How is that stupid? Its the truth.

    If a game launches which was designed from its conception to be a sub type game and in a few short months or even a year can't hold on to enough players to make ends meet, has to lay off most of the core staff, cut back on updates, merge servers and change their whole game to support the F2P model, I don't see this as a win. I don't even see how that sounds like a good game.

    How does this sound like a win to you?

    Back on topic and to OP.

    No. But who cares. If it does I won't be playing it because it would of failed me by the time it gets to that point where they need to do that.

    Incorrect. Just because it wasn't able to hold enough subs, doesn't mean the game was bad. I like a lot of games that other people do not like ... that is just how things work because we all have different tastes. The fact people play even with the switch to F2P .. means they are doing something right. Crap games simply shut down. P2P, B2P, F2P .. if it's crap .. no one will touch it.

    Also, not all games start out as P2P and then switch to F2P. There are many that start out as F2P. Again the games are not bad. If they where bad then no one would even bother to play them.

    So no, it's not the truth and yes it is very stupid.

    People should simply play games because they are good, instead of playing based on the payment model. This goes for both sides. If a game was really good to me .. I would certainly pay a sub. I don't like subs, but that doesn't mean it woud hold me back from trying a game.

    Many P2P players on the other hand say they will not even touch a F2P game. Again .. that is stupid to me. Why would you not play a game simply because it's F2P? Not all F2P games have tons of advertising everywhere, and not all F2P games are bad.

     

    In general I agree with you there but I think the reason for people thinking that is the fact that there have been so few F2P games that are actually good. Many of them start out as P2P and then fail because they are bad or are just old games losing steam and then convert to F2P as a dying gasp to stay alive.

     

    There are two exceptions to this I can think of worth noting and they represent to me the best and worst of what the F2P pay model has to offer. Neverwinter and Path of Exile both launched as F2P games but they couldn't be more different. Neverwinter had great potential with an excellent veneer of gameplay to suck you in but was mostly a cardboard cutout of a game that failed to deliver any depth or content beyond leveling. On top of that the game had a hideous cash grab with ridiculously overpriced cash shop, casino-like loot chests, constant cash shop nagging, rampant gold sellers, pay to win aspects and an utter failure to guard the economy from manipulation and exploits.

     

    Path of Exile on the other hand has none of those negatives. It's a solid game that is actually free and requires almost no expense. I would argue one stash tab bundle is probably required but some may not need this and it's relatively cheap. Beyond stash tabs you really don't need to purchase another thing to experience the full game. They don't nag you incessantly to buy things. Beyond stash tabs everything in the cash shop is cosmetic in nature so no pay to win aspects. Almost no gold sellers. Solid trading economy. I Spent about 100 bucks on PoE and did it gladly to support the game and pay model that was very well done. This is coming from someone who generally doesn't like isometric view games.

     

    If F2P games were presented more like PoE I would argue the F2P vs. P2P argument would largely go away but that is not the case. More often than not the F2P model represents something closer to NW than PoE which is why it garners such hatred and derision IMO.

  • SoulTrapOnSelfSoulTrapOnSelf Ellicott City, MDPosts: 190Member
    F2P may happen around 2015-2016 when TES VI is released.
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