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Is the PvP anything other than zerg?

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  • AratakiArataki Chicago, ILPosts: 239Member Uncommon

    A few things people don't realize.

    If you want your guild store, you need to hold a keep. If your Emperor wants to stay Emperor, you gotta keep your keeps. If you don't want your PvP buffs to go away, you need to protect your muthafuggin Elder Scrolls, which means holding your bleeding keeps.

    Killing players nets more Alliance Points than flipping a keep. 

    As far as I know, GW2 had exactly zero game play incentives to hold and defend a keep. ESO is not GW2.

    That is all I have to say. Carry on.

  • will75will75 Fatalis,The Combine, SoB... Semi retired, waiting for next big thing.., FLPosts: 353Member

    21 months till Camelot unchained,   speed classes, Good CC like DAOC. And also zergs.. but small groups will be able to take out uncoordinated large groups.

     

    Speed classes = Zerg killer itself, because every group needs a speed class.

  • NomadMorlockNomadMorlock N/A, VAPosts: 593Member Uncommon
    I agree.  GW2 made many mistakes which ESO is not duplicating.  It may have some similarities, but it plays very different.
  • AzzrasAzzras Loganville, GAPosts: 389Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by Azzras
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Azzras
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

     

    Does that about sum it up?

     

    Sell me.

    No.

    As MikeB said, No.  There are plenty of youtube videos out there that show small groups taking out stragglers.

     

    So a smaller zerg?

    I'm starting to think the OP doesn't understand the term zerg.

    He thinks a group of 4 is a zerg?

    /sigh

    A Zerg is any amount of players on one. That is the definition - it is about numbers not skill. If there are rewards for better armor that make people 'LEET' then the game will get zergy - that is what happened in Rift.

     

    Get used to it. As I said, unless it is defined PvP, it will have zergs - period.

    Another that doesn't understand the term or its origins.

    /sigh again.

     

    The source was starcraft zergling rushes where masses of units overran fewer units. However, the CONCEPT has been around for much longer. It's just the word is more recognizable to gamers than military terminology. It has been expressed in the military world as force concentration. If you read the link in the very first paragraph you see a term I used earlier in the thread force multiplication via the use of geological features and fortifications.

     

    Now if you're playing the starcraft series, then you can stick to the strict definition of 'zerg', but since we are obviously not, then it expands to the greater definition that all gamers have come to recognize, that of larger force beats smaller force if all other factors are equal.

     

    As to my intent, the post was offered as a question, not a statement of fact. How so many are reacting to a question about a game in a gaming forum like I am hurting their little sister or kicking their dog amazes me. Isn't it possible to discuss a game without becoming emotional and defensive? Did they make the game? Then why are they defending it like it is a family member? (Or would they even defend a family member this strongly...)

     

    Now that you're up to speed, I hope you can contribute to the thread productively, rather than attempting to derail it through the unrelated minutia of starcraft trivia. (unless of course that is precisely your intent)

     

    That all being said and cleared up, here's a quote from Nietzsche for you:

    “The snake which cannot cast its skin has to die. As well the minds which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind.”

     

     

    Nice rant I guess.  It doesn't change the FACT that you've been shown several videos that clearly show zerging, while still prevalent in the game, is no the only style of PvP persistent.  Instead of acknowledging what others have shown, you have this rant on my post about the definition of zerg and still seem to be saying that a group of 4 is a zerg when they are either evenly matched in numbers or greatly outnumbered and still prevail.

    There are plenty of videos out there that also show people doing solo PvP quite successfully.

    With all of that said, I still stand by my statement that you do not understand the true intent of the meaning of zerg.

    I also do not appreciate the 'tone' of your post.  Please try and be a bit nicer.  I'm not here trying to insult you. 

    edit to remove what could be construed as rude remarks.

     

    image
  • jircrisjircris bakersfield, CAPosts: 411Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

     

    Does that about sum it up?

     

    Sell me.

    You sound like you just want a reason to hate the game. I did some PvP and honestly its not bad. though i do feel the lag if a large group passes by, though its a battlefield not a damned boxing ring Your not going 1v1 your going nation vs nation. and in my opinion it can get VERY crazy but also rewarding if you manage to do half good. The fact that your asking this question proves to most of us (those who can read and understand the post and not just what they want to hear) that you have not experienced PVP..you most likely have not even been past level 10 to experience some of the fun things (island was boring as hell)

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  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    with the choke points and the map set up, zerging seems way less of an issue than you think - pvp testers tell me its easy for a coordinated small group to fight a large army if they use smart tactics...there are also some vids about this:

     

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by botrytis
    It is the same as GW2 - don't kind yourself.  GW2 is not zergy (initially it was because that is how people play - but coordinated wins the day every time).  if you are coordinated - small groups can do much damage.

     

    I wasn't impressed with ESO combat - no feedback and boring (key spam). If you like it - more power to ya. But, it is not the savior for MMO's that many say it is - it is just another game on rails.


    GW2 blows and is a shallow pvp and pve experience IMO. no ESO is not the same, there is more to do in cyrodiil than just zerg (ala GW2).

    there is content for smaller groups as well as pve content, which gives it more of an open pvp feel.

    the feedback you mention has alrady been addressed with CD as you should already know.

    oh and i will take this game "on rails" over a game where i do not feel like i am getting any stronger or look any different after level 10 and quit out of sheer bordem.

    :)

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Arataki
    A few things people don't realize.If you want your guild store, you need to hold a keep. If your Emperor wants to stay Emperor, you gotta keep your keeps. If you don't want your PvP buffs to go away, you need to protect your muthafuggin Elder Scrolls, which means holding your bleeding keeps.Killing players nets more Alliance Points than flipping a keep. As far as I know, GW2 had exactly zero game play incentives to hold and defend a keep. ESO is not GW2.That is all I have to say. Carry on.

    good point about the keep flipping, people that dont want to zerg can defend keeps and will need to.

    espcially if they are trying to get an emporor crowned.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    I know.

    If we call it "blob" then we don't have to worry about there being zergs.

  • rafalex007rafalex007 dubaiPosts: 244Member

    @op again

    seriously You Just want to believe That the Game Is a ZergFEST soo...

  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member Uncommon

    in every game with massive PvP there will be zerg, and this happens in every game, cause there is no value for the life of the character its like the hordes in history battles or the 'valiant' knights, but when their life was something a bit more important you could see organized war fare.

     

    the same here, there is no cost for loss so people run around like bulls in amok xD

    image

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    So a smaller zerg?

    At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draemos
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    So a smaller zerg?

    At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.

    It's been covered.

     

    Maybe read the thread?

     

    This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


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    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • What people don't understand is, All Massive PvP Games will have Zergs, DAOC had them, Rift Had them, Warhammer Had them, and GW2 has them, and ESO will have them..along with CU

    What matters is how much you're rewarded for zerging in those games.

     

    Warhammer and DAOC while they let you zerg, Made you a freakin Target for groups that would side swipe you to try and kill large numbers.

     

    DAOC probably did it best out of them all, Because generally Zergs were slow moving beasts..and if they didn't spread fast enough, a single group could destroy them in seconds...Which is how it should be.

     

    Rift had massive Zergs, but it was like WAR and DAOC, you could wipe the hell out of a zerg in that game....Hell a Single Dominator or Warcaller (Stormcaller+Warlock combo) could damn near wipe a zerg at one point.

     

    Now...Here comes GW2..

     

    Which went the absolute wrong way with Zergs, Not only does the AOE cap in that game eliminate the ability to wipe most zergs, It bloody rewards them by not splitting up WXP when killing someone...Throw in crap like the Down System..Their Entire Boon system, stacking to avoid AOE (which is the dumbest thing i've seen in an MMO to date) and you got the cluster fuck that is Zerging in that game.

     

    Their rewarding of zerging is what frankly pushed so many people away from GW2...

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member

    Some good reads for anyone interested in information versus random ramblings, assumptions, guesses, vitriol and such (not pointing at everyone in the thread of course)

     

    AvAvA Q&A: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/12/23/ask-us-anything-cyrodiil

    The process behind the design of the Keeps: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/12/20/creating-eso-cyrodiils-keeps

     

    Lots of information readily available at the official website.

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    Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes


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  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Xsorus
    What people don't understand is, All Massive PvP Games will have Zergs, DAOC had them, Rift Had them, Warhammer Had them, and GW2 has them, and ESO will have them..along with CUWhat matters is how much you're rewarded for zerging in those games. Warhammer and DAOC while they let you zerg, Made you a freakin Target for groups that would side swipe you to try and kill large numbers. DAOC probably did it best out of them all, Because generally Zergs were slow moving beasts..and if they didn't spread fast enough, a single group could destroy them in seconds...Which is how it should be. Rift had massive Zergs, but it was like WAR and DAOC, you could wipe the hell out of a zerg in that game....Hell a Single Dominator or Warcaller (Stormcaller+Warlock combo) could damn near wipe a zerg at one point. Now...Here comes GW2.. Which went the absolute wrong way with Zergs, Not only does the AOE cap in that game eliminate the ability to wipe most zergs, It bloody rewards them by not splitting up WXP when killing someone...Throw in crap like the Down System..Their Entire Boon system, stacking to avoid AOE (which is the dumbest thing i've seen in an MMO to date) and you got the cluster fuck that is Zerging in that game. Their rewarding of zerging is what frankly pushed so many people away from GW2...

    there needs to be other things to do other than zerging, that's the key.

    i think ESO has done that. there is more to do than just midlessly zerg from keep to keep like in GW2 and there are mechanics in the game to ensure that.


  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by Draemos Originally posted by Velocinox So a smaller zerg?
    At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.
    It's been covered.

     

    Maybe read the thread?

     

    This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.


    there are other things to do in cyrodiil other than zerg, it's a fact. i don't see why this continues to be disscussed? just for the sake of trolling maybe?

  • wangkomwangkom Leesburg, VAPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

     

    does that about sum it up?

    YES its all a big cluster fu** of people who doesnt know what they are doing, so they all hitting different target...

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 350Member Uncommon

    several words to lessen the zerg problems that developers dont have the stones to do it

    - Friendly fire

    - colision detection

    - Terrain factors that affect skills and movement

    -war machines with heavy aoe dmg

    - heavier death penalty

     

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Originally posted by Draemos

    Originally posted by Velocinox So a smaller zerg?
    At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.
    It's been covered.

     

     

    Maybe read the thread?

     

    This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.


     

    there are other things to do in cyrodiil other than zerg, it's a fact. i don't see why this continues to be disscussed? just for the sake of trolling maybe?

     

    I've already stated I'm willing to try it with an open mind, which is more than what I can say about your replies of troll accusations and one-sided proclamations of fact. I mean there's plenty of posts in this thread that aren't mine that claim it is zergy. I'm waiting to find out for myself before I make a decision, but there is plenty of evidence both on youtube and in posts in this thread suggesting it is far from cut and dried.

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Originally posted by Draemos

    Originally posted by Velocinox So a smaller zerg?
    At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.
    It's been covered.

     

     

    Maybe read the thread?

     

    This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.


     

    there are other things to do in cyrodiil other than zerg, it's a fact. i don't see why this continues to be disscussed? just for the sake of trolling maybe?

     

    I've already stated I'm willing to try it with an open mind, which is more than what I can say about your replies of troll accusations and one-sided proclamations of fact. I mean there's plenty of posts in this thread that aren't mine that claim it is zergy. I'm waiting to find out for myself before I make a decision, but there is plenty of evidence both on youtube and in posts in this thread suggesting it is far from cut and dried.

     

     

    Lol. You're still getting beat-up over this? Told you it was a bad title :)

     

    Definitely try it for yourself. I think you'll enjoy it.

  • DeitylightDeitylight E.St.louis, ILPosts: 102Member Uncommon

    Remember the Chalamo.
    An event that happen during the very first pts test for eso where members of the shoddy cast took on multiple waves of zergs and whatnot.
    Have a look at it, they basically became part of the lore due to their efforts.
    They also explained what and why it happened.

    image
  • AkemiZenAkemiZen Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 24Member

    So far, I have had very limited experience with pvp (level 13 sorcerer), and guess what...I had a blast!  Most of the time I was on my own, and chose not to be in the large group.  I was able to easily determine where I was needed most by using both the chat functions and the map.  I started off taking the quests at the zone in, which helped me learn how to use the transit system, where to buy siege equipment, and pointed to me to some boards with quests that I could pick up to earn rewards.  The quests included scouting quests (go here and make a report), kill 20 players, capture this keep, etc.  

    While running toward quest objectives I ran into towns that had pve quests to collect artifacts or kills specific creatures.  I also encounted other lone adventures on my travels and had some fun one on one fights.  I found several skyshards while exploring the map and lots of resources for crafting that are only found in the pvp zone.  Finally after goofing around a bit, the urgency in chat got the better of me, and I decided to help defend a keep.

    When I got there, the area was littered with all different kinds of siege equipment and spell effects, so I quickly got to a keep door so I could help defend from the inside.  I helped pluck off individuals that were brave enough to approach the walls by using both dd spells and crowd control.  After a bit I decided to help a smaller band of individuals, take back the resources around the keep so the walls and doors would heal faster and got to experience an excellent flank on the enemy force.  Again, I never actually grouped with anyone and I still had a great time.

    I hope that my tiny experience with pvp helped you make your decision, and look forward to standing beside you or before you on the battlefield.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

     

    Does that about sum it up?

     

    Sell me.

    No. Skill groups are back in business again in ESO. This isn't GW2 WvW where numbers trump skill. Get a small group together and go wreak havoc on enemy resources while your zerg does the keep taking.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
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  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Large scale PvP requires large numbers of Pvpers. It is pretty simple and during war one solo person doesn't matter. If you want single combat you might not want to play a game with large scale PvP since it isn't the type of PvP you want to play.

    But yes you can solo or run a small group if you want. FYI...I never recommend running solo in a PvP zone, that is just asking to die out right.

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