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[Column] World of Warcraft: The Impact of WoW’s Instant Boost to Level Cap

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Comments

  • NaeviusNaevius Houston, TXPosts: 334Member Uncommon

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 184Member Uncommon

    I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

     

    Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

     

    The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

     

    Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

     

    The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

    Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

     

    You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

     

    I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

     

    What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

     

    ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

     

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • MagicabbageMagicabbage virginia beach, VAPosts: 93Member

    Like someone said already. This doesn't effect anyone in game. I think it's great that they

    even offer the feature. I have all the classes. My lowest is a 41 Monk who I plan to use this

    feature on. The next lowest is 80 and the rest are 90. I do not, for the sake of time, want to run

    the same content for the 10th time again.

     

    Blizzard doesn't care about your whining, or threats of quitting. They have more subs than

    ALL, yes ALL, triple A MMOs combined. So what if they lose a million subs(which won't

    happen) They aren't afraid of any competition, because since launch, there hasn't been any

    competition. People often quit due to boredom, only to return months later. This game has it

    all and it's easy to achieve gear, levels, achievements, so that makes it fun to some people.

    so in conclusion, someone paying to get to 90 is their business and doesn't effect you or me,

    at all. Cheaper than paying some random Asian to do it illegally and risk getting hacked. 

    Oh and garrisons, alone, are worth the price of admission for the new expack. I can't wait.

     
  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 184Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

     

    Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

     

    The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

    Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

     

    You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

     

    I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

     

    What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

     

    ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

     

     

    I agree that the prices involved in WoW are ridiculous - I recently server/faction changed one of my characters for $55 and that's almost the price of a whole game.

     

    However, you are mixing up the morality issues of gaming with your financial issues. Personally I believe things that take skill should never be able to be purchased however anything involving TIME should be able to be bypassed by $$$ if the customer chooses. After all, that unemployed guy needs his welfare while he's playing a game and he's only gonna get it if people like me go to work and cant commit the time he can.

     

    Spending copious amounts of time in game isn't an achievement and it doesn't take skill to level a character - although I like to.

     

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

     

    Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

     

    The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

    Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

     

    You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

     

    I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

     

    What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

     

    ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

     

     

    I agree that the prices involved in WoW are ridiculous - I recently server/faction changed one of my characters for $55 and that's almost the price of a whole game.

     

    However, you are mixing up the morality issues of gaming with your financial issues. Personally I believe things that take skill should never be able to be purchased however anything involving TIME should be able to be bypassed by $$$ if the customer chooses. After all, that unemployed guy needs his welfare while he's playing a game and he's only gonna get it if people like me go to work and cant commit the time he can.

     

    Spending copious amounts of time in game isn't an achievement and it doesn't take skill to level a character - although I like to.

     

    That is the foundation of RPG's though.

     

    RPG's were never designed to become casual with purchased skill ups.

     

    WoW should not be considered a RPG, if they let people pay to skip RPG content.

     

    If any DnD dungeon master wanted to kill their sessions, all they would need to do it allow group members to buy levels.  The option alone kills the spirit.  Some justify it saying I couldn't make it the past 2 weeks so I'm catching up, while the others say NO!

     

    Well Blizzard is in command of their own game, and while some partake on Blizzard's offerings, I think it's the core audience that will suffer.  The core audience is the component any company should desire to keep.

     

    [then again Blizzard dumbed the game down in the past, so whats another hit]

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SomeOldBlokeSomeOldBloke Lancaster, UKPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon

    This is 100% the fault of the players who demand fast leveling or say 'the game starts at level cap'. Gaming companies switched focus of games and it became less about the journey and more about what you do when you get there.

    I have no sympathy, you get what you ask for.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

    So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

     

    Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

     

    < going in circles here >

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

    So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

     

    Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

     

    < going in circles here >

     

    I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. Scroll up, I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

    No wonder you think this is going in circles.....What gives?

    Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

    So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

     

    Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

     

    < going in circles here >

     

    I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

    What gives?

    Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

    OK, and Blizzard's decisions are suspect.  I'll highlight in blue everything I think is wrong.

     

    You said that WoW is all about end-game.  Now you say it's not just about endgame, which contradicts earlier posts.  Millions enjoy end-game .. but what about the millions who like the other parts of the game?  They get strung out to wither away, while people with more money (yes even in a P2P game), say "Can I has your stuff"?  Many do end-game, many don't .. that's an accurate statement.

     

    Why allow people to purchase levels?  It's crappy.  It degrades everything people worked for.  It is after all, just a game.  But not one I want to participate in.  I can't describe it, but any game where people buy advancement or power is off my radar.   I was interested in WoW's latest XPac, but now it's 'iffy'.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Naevius

    In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

    Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

    Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

    EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

    It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

    Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

     

    Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

     

    So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

     

    Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

    To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

    Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

     

    Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

     

    If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

     

    WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

     

    Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

    Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

    You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

    Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

    The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

    I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

    I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

    LFR are included in your stats?

    No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

    So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

     

    Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

     

    < going in circles here >

     

    I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

    What gives?

    Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

    OK, and Blizzard's decisions are suspect.  I'll highlight in blue everything I think is wrong.

     

    You said that WoW is all about end-game.  Now you say it's not just about endgame, which contradicts earlier posts.  Millions enjoy end-game .. but what about the millions who like the other parts of the game?  They get strung out to wither away, while people with more money (yes even in a P2P game), say "Can I has your stuff"?  Many do end-game, many don't .. that's an accurate statement.

     

    Why allow people to purchase levels?  It's crappy.  It degrades everything people worked for.  It is after all, just a game.  But not one I want to participate in.  I can't describe it, but any game where people buy advancement or power is off my radar.   I was interested in WoW's latest XPac, but now it's 'iffy'.

    If you can quote me where I said WoW was not about endgame, I will paypal you $100000

    I never said WoW wasn't about endgame...as a matter of fact that was my initial point and what I have been trying to drive home all along, WoW is almost 100% about endgame...i never once contradicted myself......what I DID say though, was that  it was not just about raiding....i figured out your problem and see why you keep going in circles now....you use the term endgame and raiding interchangeably in your mind, which is wrong. Endgame content (raids, heroic dungeons, challenge modes, battleground pvp, ranked arenas etc) are all done by vastly more than those who just play wow for the leveling experiance. There is no way in hell you can tell me that there is a significant amount of max level players large enough where this would even matter who don't do any endgame (again, endgame is not just raiding).

    You know what would help you understand this exchange a little more clearly? Stop using the words endgame and raiding synonymously, and that goes for all MMOs in general.

    Raiding is a part of endgame, not the totality of it. I'm nowhere near arguing symantics here...its like saying wheel and car are the same thing.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    They should make everyone who buys a lvl 90 wear a "*" next to their name. I mean why should they care if someone else knows they bought their way to 90? At least then I could mentally prepare myself to play with those who may lack some experience. Either way it goes I'm still buying the next expansion.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • jircrisjircris bakersfield, CAPosts: 412Member Uncommon
    Only thing i can see going wrong is having those new players who shell out the extra money to hit 90 only to join raids and such and not know thir class.

    free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!

    Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by jircris
    Only thing i can see going wrong is having those new players who shell out the extra money to hit 90 only to join raids and such and not know thir class.

    Those new players get a free 90 anyways (as does everyone). They would be stupid to buy additional 90s if they are new to the game.

  • swing848swing848 Marion, OHPosts: 274Member

    I do not care what Blizzard does, I do not play the game any longer.

    I reached level 80, and my friends stopped playing WoW, so, I stopped playing.  It was also not fun because the best guilds wanted only players who had the best gear - stuck up if you ask me, I did not like it.

    Also, WoW is only an armor/equipment chasing game, and it never ends; you get to the top and WoW comes out with more to chase.  Do I want to pay a monthly fee for that?  No.

    I liked Dark Age of Camelot better.  You level up, get your gear and run out with your friends in Realm vs Realm and beat [or shoot or burn down] other players all day long.  I don't know of any other game that had no limit to how many players could get into the RvR zone, almost everyone there were there to kill each other [characters], and a few were questing or looking for NPC drops.

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  • N1njaPwnStarN1njaPwnStar Shinglehouse, PAPosts: 83Member
    This will make it worse for low levels trying to find groups/pvp or see other low levels at all.. I mean if you like to play mmos solo than its no big deal but if you enjoy playing with others it kinda sucks.. unless you pay the price to be a level 90 and skip everything.. but anyway im glad I quit  and don't have to worry about it.
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Do you dopes really think that EVERYONE is going to go out and pay $60 for a level 90? This thread hurts my eyes, just more crying about this game. People are really starting to remind me of all those SWG Vets...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • N1njaPwnStarN1njaPwnStar Shinglehouse, PAPosts: 83Member
    No I did not say everyone. but it will still make the game worse for low levels anyway you look at it.
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