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So every Melee and Ranged player will play Khajiit to Min-Max

HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member

The +15% crit damage applies to both melee and ranged and will make Khajiit undoubtably the most favored Melee and Ranged-class (non-caster) in the game. If you want to be in the top corner of being the most viable damage dealer, then you will not come around choosing a Khajiit.

If Carnage stays only on Khajiits, then we will see them running around everywhere. I personally do not mind, since I like Khajiits. But is this really the goal which will automatically add up to that each competitive player will pick this race, when playing melee and/or with a bow?

Everyone saying that race bonuses are marginal were not yet participating in the endgame. Having a few thousands of health and getting added 12% hp from the imperial ontop will find this number very appealing. Same goes for all the other bonuses that really have impact. Khajiit being one of them.

Is it really unimportant what race to pick? No, definitelly not. Sure you can pick an Argonian Nightblade but will be outplayed by a Khajiit by a large number. Same goes for a Bosmer, and that is the sad thing - Bosmer actually being a Bow focused race will also be outplayed by the Khajiit's racials.

How to fix this? Balance racial bonuses across the board. To make on single example out of many: This would then mean to give Khajiit's Carnage to one or two more races aswell.

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Comments

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    image

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member

    NOPE :) All the way Redguard here, because I am half Persian and they looks like Persians too ..

    I am on 80% sure I will go Redguard Dragonknight ranger, here not sure if off set weapon will be 2h, dual wield, or 1h/shield .. also not sure if medium or heavy armor yet.

     

    Look, you cant just balance every racial to 100% otherwise you can just have no racials at all .. 

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hrotha
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    Maybe but I played spreadsheets in space for 8 years. TMI really kills the fun factor more.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by Hrotha
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.

    You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.

    And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.

  • jw2252jw2252 Wherever, MOPosts: 34Member
    You've got to account for things like players that choose characters based on aesthetics, players that don't focus on or understand the concept of min/max, and players that will build more defensively for pvp.  PvE only players really won't care at all about the plus 15 percent so with all that taken into account, I really don't see it becoming a problem.  I haven't played the beta yet but just from general rule of thumb of MMO's, the human type race will be the most played, followed by races like elves that look mostly human, then finally the more animal looking races.  I could very well be wrong, but I can't think of an mmo I've played that hasn't followed this trend.  Except maybe TERA, but I chalk that up to way to many lolicon's playing it.
  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member
    Originally posted by sfc1971
    Originally posted by Hrotha
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.

    You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.

    And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.

    hooah!

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  • GrimfargoGrimfargo ViennaPosts: 53Member Uncommon

    Well speak for yourself but I am going to play a Nord no matter what and I know many people who arent some stat bitch and want to max out anything.

    If you want to be an "elitist" go for it I dont care.

    I like the diverse racial bonuses. Ever heard of Everquest? That made every race unique and if you played one of the evil races, everyone knew what effort you put into your character to make it that far.

  • vzerovvzerov taipeiPosts: 125Member
    Critical damage increse only matters if someone has high critical chance. As long as stacking critical chance not the most (or only) viable dps build, what you are saying will not happen. I am not saying it wont happen, but we cant tell yet. I would agree with you if the racial was critical chance increase instead of damage increase.
  • lboston1lboston1 CAMBRIDGEPosts: 3Member

    +15% crit damage is not overpowered in comparison to other racials. It means that WHEN you crit, you do a little bit extra damage. But you have to crit first, and then the +15% isn't very much. Personally I would rather have the extra hp, because 1vs1, and all other things being equal (i.e. we have the same stats elsewhere, we hit for the same damage and crit the same exact number of times), I will outlast the +15% crit damage, because crits don't happen all that often.

     

    Essentially, the crit damage bonus is based on being lucky, whereas other bonuses are more concrete in their ability to help your character.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Everything hinges on what the caps are on the various attributes.

     

    Khajits get a "built-in" crit bonus, but may simply mean they need to rely less on gear enchants and traits to reach their crit cap. They can load their gear with spell resist enchants instead.

     

    Breton's, on the other hand, get a "built-in" spell resist bonus, so they can load their gear with all crit boosting enchants.

     

    There are many sources of enhancements (gear and weapon enchants and traits, gear sets, food and drink, alchemical potions, Mundus stones, faction buffs in PVP) that the options for boosting stats and attributes are many and varied.

  • WarjinWarjin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 1,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sfc1971
    Originally posted by Hrotha
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.

    You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.

    And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.

    I agree, you see this in games like WoW and I started to hate it, also in games like Gw2 playing the dam midgets just to get the slight edge in pvp combat, I got sick of people that play MMO's like that and I feel they are a big part of what went wrong with MMO's over the years.

    I play MMO's to get immersed, I can never and have never played a class that I couldn't get into, no matter how big of an advantage they gave me, I have to feel like the character connects with me and is the reason out of the 13 years of playing MMO's I never played a female because I am not one nor wish to be. (not that there is anything wrong with role playing a female, I respect your choice and fantasy)

    When I make a toon in a MMO I try my best to make that toon look like me in real life in some way, human, tan skin, black hair, blue eyes and average build.

    I kind of got lucky playing WoW as a human after a while when they added "Every Man for Himself " lol, but I could care less about race bonuses as I always find a way to overcome and most important I am truly playing the class, race & gender I truly enjoy for years to come.

    I always found it funny when I saw people paying real money for a gender, class or race change just to get that small edge and thought to myself  "what a sucker" lol

  • SawlstoneSawlstone barrie, ONPosts: 301Member
    I won't be. I am always a melee player. I never play animal races. period.
  • mothmarmothmar manchesterPosts: 10Member

    I'm picking one because I like the way the race looks, and the armour looks great. Personally there are other bonuses I'd prefer for the character I want to build.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    No go...

     

    Dont make prerelease desigens based on stats.... MMO? are continously ballanced, if you base your choice on stats, and it gets changed you will feel sad.... and if its really that good as you think, it will get ballanced..

     

    Thats why i make my choice based on the general direction of the racial skills..... either Breton for its caster stats, or Imperial for its bonus to stats and the selfhealing...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Yep.

    Also defensive melee (tanks or PvPers) will want to be Imperials with 12% more HP, 10% more stamina and lifetaps on melee attacks.  Argonians would be the best out of the non-paid races with 6% more healing received.

    Offensive casters will want to be High Elves with 6% more damage to all elemental damage.

     

    Healers... well they don't really have an OP race.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Yep.

    Also defensive melee (tanks or PvPers) will want to be Imperials with 12% more HP, 10% more stamina and lifetaps on melee attacks.  Argonians would be the best out of the non-paid races with 6% more healing received.

    Offensive casters will want to be High Elves with 6% more damage to all elemental damage.

     

    Healers... well they don't really have an OP race.

    Tough with Imperials its smart to put some more poitns intoo magicka to ballance the other class skills, everyone needs magicka..

     

    and for healers,  a true min maxer will either choose Altmer or breton... I would prefer Altmer..  But in the end its easy enough to softcap allmost all important stuff for each and every build

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by vzerov
    Critical damage increse only matters if someone has high critical chance. As long as stacking critical chance not the most (or only) viable dps build, what you are saying will not happen. I am not saying it wont happen, but we cant tell yet. I would agree with you if the racial was critical chance increase instead of damage increase.

     

    The same racial gives you 3% crit as well.  You get 27% crit just by being a Khajit and wearing all leather.  That's without any additional crit from gear.  Currently there is no critical mitigation, so that already puts Khajit at roughly 4% more damage right at the start, which will only increase (up to 15%) as they get closer to 100% crit.

  • NacarioNacario World Wide WebPosts: 217Member
    One thing is for sure, i for one will be outright furious if they were to change/nerf khajiit racials after launch due to QQ. Im going to roll a nightblade and the build supports crit play, while at the same time I HATE being a cat. There are problably other players out there thinking like me, and we'll be #!%&ed if change happens, and having to stick with the character since progression takes time.
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    and for healers,  a true min maxer will either choose Altmer or breton... I would prefer Altmer..  But in the end its easy enough to softcap allmost all important stuff for each and every build

     

    Didn't really feel like the Altmer or Breton racials were necessary, its quite easy to cap Magika regen.  Its not like 6% more healing or anything.

    Don't get me wrong, I like having flavoured and not completely balanced racials, I am just saying that a lot of these need work to be more appealing.  I would rather they boost the bad races rather than nerf the good ones. 

  • BrannagarBrannagar Dallas, TXPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by Hrotha

    The +15% crit damage applies to both melee and ranged and will make Khajiit undoubtably the most favored Melee and Ranged-class (non-caster) in the game. If you want to be in the top corner of being the most viable damage dealer, then you will not come around choosing a Khajiit.

    If Carnage stays only on Khajiits, then we will see them running around everywhere. I personally do not mind, since I like Khajiits. But is this really the goal which will automatically add up to that each competitive player will pick this race, when playing melee and/or with a bow?

    Everyone saying that race bonuses are marginal were not yet participating in the endgame. Having a few thousands of health and getting added 12% hp from the imperial ontop will find this number very appealing. Same goes for all the other bonuses that really have impact. Khajiit being one of them.

    Is it really unimportant what race to pick? No, definitelly not. Sure you can pick an Argonian Nightblade but will be outplayed by a Khajiit by a large number. Same goes for a Bosmer, and that is the sad thing - Bosmer actually being a Bow focused race will also be outplayed by the Khajiit's racials.

    How to fix this? Balance racial bonuses across the board. To make on single example out of many: This would then mean to give Khajiit's Carnage to one or two more races aswell.

    Yep.  You are totally correct.  Every melee and ranged player will play a Khajit.  Which means every player in the game will be Khajit.  You know....since every character will be either ranged or melee.

     

    Yep that's totally going to happen.  Completely.

     

    /sarcasm off.

    image

  • AvulAvul BerlinPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Nacario
    One thing is for sure, i for one will be outright furious if they were to change/nerf khajiit racials after launch due to QQ. Im going to roll a nightblade and the build supports crit play, while at the same time I HATE being a cat. There are problably other players out there thinking like me, and we'll be #!%&ed if change happens, and having to stick with the character since progression takes time.

    That's why I'm playing a race I like. I would never choose a certain race just because of its perks. FOR ORSIMAR!!!

    Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by sfc1971
    Originally posted by Hrotha
    Originally posted by free2play

    And only PvP micro managers will notice.

     

    So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.

    Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?

    No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.

    You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.

    And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.

    See you in PvP.

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,979Member Uncommon
    Not a min maxer here and there is always plenty of people who are better then me, so an extra crit chance holds little appeal.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Nacario
    One thing is for sure, i for one will be outright furious if they were to change/nerf khajiit racials after launch due to QQ. Im going to roll a nightblade and the build supports crit play, while at the same time I HATE being a cat. There are problably other players out there thinking like me, and we'll be #!%&ed if change happens, and having to stick with the character since progression takes time.

    You hate beeing cat but you going to play one cause of small advantage that you wont even notice anyway. Smart .. I dont want to be rude but It would be awesome if they really nerfed it and you would be stucked with race and char you hate just cause you wanted the racials :D 

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