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ESO needs to explain stuff better ingame!

24

Comments

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by whisperwynd

     Considering all the negative input you post about ESO, I'm surprised you even care what Zenimax does or doesn't do for launch...

    I think those questions are asked players that hate to read because this past weekend was my first and I had little trouble understanding the gameplay. 

    Yes, I'm confused as well.  I think it's a matter of some people wanting a new game, but wanting that new game to be like all the other games.  So, they bash and rage on it, then petition to get it to change and be like every other clone out there.  These are the same people that are also quick to hate on clones, and cry for a game that is different.  It's a catch 22.

     

    For myself, I didn't have a whole lot of difficulty at all understanding how to navigate the game or do things.  Sure, there were mechanics to learn and there was some adjustment in getting accustomed to the UI.  Nothing crazy.  There certainly wasn't zone spam of people clamoring for help all the time for rudimentary operations.  I found in-game chat to be filled with what I normally hear:  the odd quest question, tips on this or that, and friendly banter.

     

     

    image
  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    This is what I think most people have a problem with this game.  They're used to games that tell you to go here, do this, etc.  It's one thing I love about ESO.  I spent my first few beta weekends lost.  I haven't done that since DAoC lol.

     

    About 75% of all the complaints and hate threads people have about this game are because they do not know how or what or where they can do things.  I hear complaints about bags, tell people you can buy slots, and they think I'm lying or something lol. There was a guy on the starter island, when I was playing with a friend, and he could find anymore quests.  Heard a guy in zone chat on the mainland that was complaining that Imperial Edition is the only way to get a horse, then I showed him the stables lol.  There's a lot of misinformation and uninformed players.  It reminds me of old school MMOs :D

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrDwarf
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Funny thing I actually play games to find these things out by playing.

    It´s like people are afraid to click on things or find things out themself or actually look at what´s on-screen.

     

    No I think we are discussing different things.

    Why not have us all guess what the key bindings are and have us have to remap them so we can actually play the game because for a twist, the games company designed the controls so they only suit a particular kind of deformed human body ?   You'd enjoy finding that out too I guess ?

    How about you need to do a 6 month detailed Internet search and employ at least 14 specialist private detectives to actually find out how to download the game in the first place ?    You'd enjoy finding that out too I guess ?

     

     

    Not sure what you are talking about because I was responding to the OP's topic.

    Those things he mentioned if you actually pay attention while playing are explained or just are clickable. For example I was working on some swords I litterally saw people around the anvil ask how to refine ore. I asume they already had their craft window pop up because at a anvil you can't really ignore the click me pop up.

    Any gamer in my opinion would see different icons on his craft window and would click on those to see if any info or something else happens. Yet we see this majority unable to think for themselfs unless it's being told/explained.

    Again the things you wrote have no reference to Elder Scroll Online.

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    This is what I think most people have a problem with this game.  They're used to games that tell you to go here, do this, etc.  It's one thing I love about ESO.  I spent my first few beta weekends lost.  I haven't done that since DAoC lol.

     

    About 75% of all the complaints and hate threads people have about this game are because they do not know how or what or where they can do things.  I hear complaints about bags, tell people you can buy slots, and they think I'm lying or something lol. There was a guy on the starter island, when I was playing with a friend, and he could find anymore quests.  Heard a guy in zone chat on the mainland that was complaining that Imperial Edition is the only way to get a horse, then I showed him the stables lol.  There's a lot of misinformation and uninformed players.  It reminds me of old school MMOs :D

    Worst part is that most of these things are marked on you map, or require you actually listen to the initial quest explanation.  My favorite was the purify the shrines quest in AD.  My advice was simply find the only glowing thing in there next to a dead body you found the quest item on.... now read it.  Tada!

    Lesson is always read notes next to dead bodies... some are actually hilarious.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Why can I not trade? (Because you need to ungroup!)

    How can I leave Cyrodiil?

    How do I use a repair kit?

    Do I get gear decay from PVP death?

    How do Synergies work? (Most people I met didn’t even KNOW they exist!)

     

     

    As Mike B said most of this is explained in game, as for decay I didn't PVP at all this weekend so I'm not sure, but I do know in PVE if you get decay it tells you in bold print when you rez, does this happen in PVP when you rez? If not I'd assume you get no decay.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    Leanring curves should be for soemthing that makes sense.

    There shouldn't be a learning curve to learn you have to trade out of a group.

    The reason why it should not be part of the learning curve becuase its not logical. So why would a person spend every possible consideration to figure out how to trade. Maybe you have to be sitting while trading... hmm let me try that. What if I missed something in the intro... let me run back.

    Since in real life... if you want to trade all you have to do is use that medium to start a trade. This so called learning curve that people are defending goes the intuition of the player and thus requires useless investigation for a simple aspect of the game.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    This is what I think most people have a problem with this game.  They're used to games that tell you to go here, do this, etc.  It's one thing I love about ESO.  I spent my first few beta weekends lost.  I haven't done that since DAoC lol.

     

    About 75% of all the complaints and hate threads people have about this game are because they do not know how or what or where they can do things.  I hear complaints about bags, tell people you can buy slots, and they think I'm lying or something lol. There was a guy on the starter island, when I was playing with a friend, and he could find anymore quests.  Heard a guy in zone chat on the mainland that was complaining that Imperial Edition is the only way to get a horse, then I showed him the stables lol.  There's a lot of misinformation and uninformed players.  It reminds me of old school MMOs :D

    And, as Mike posted above, people simply miss or skip through the text on tooltips that explain what they are complaining about.  I find ESO explains things very clearly, but I've taken the time to read as I was exploring.  The information is out there, and it's actually quite thorough.

     

    Even if you do miss something, or need help, that's what the in-game chat is for.  This isn't a single player game.  There are also online resources. 

     

     

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  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Elikal you are just too funny lol. Sometimes I'm not sure if you even know what you want anymore. Breath, just about everything you wrote is explainable per what other folks mentioned in this thread either in game, forums, or just asking people in and out of game. That is pretty typical of every single MMO I have played. I like the beginning of a new game and trying to discover all the little things so I can help those that follow me. Within one month you'll be an expert on just about everything. We all know despite how much you say you hate this and that and how you barrage the forums with all of these minor issues that you will end up playing anyway.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon
    Yes, I know. It is just too difficult to test and research. To find out things for yourself. We all need to be told what to do to get anything done. /sarcasm off

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    You seriously think that is good advise for a 200-300 million dollar expensive Triple A MMO? To "let people figure out"?

    Is that really so bad?

    It's not like the information is all that difficult to come by. And it promotes players to communicate & work together in chat, instead of ignoring one another, like in most other MMOs.

    So many games go out of their way to hold the hands of the players. I believe I've even seen you, yourself talk about games doing this. And becoming 'too easy / dumbed down' as a result. Part of having more interesting / challenging games is asking players to start taking more initiative and figuring things out on their own.

    There's no mystery / exploration in constantly following an arrow on your screen. But we have plenty of games that do that if people want that.

    - Heck, people are already whining about the tutorials the game already has.

  • rwyanrwyan raleigh, NCPosts: 461Member

    I didn't find anything terribly confusing at all.

     

    Any questions I had were easily resolved via trial and error or by simply opening up the in-game manual and reading some of the dev-written documentation.

     

    For example, at first, I found the crafting GUI non-intuitive.  I solved all my problems simply by clicking around.  When I attempted to extract materials from some raw jute, the interface informed me that I needed at least a set of 10 in order to proceed since I only had a stack of 7 or so.  No biggy, I simply ran out and gathered more raw jute.

     

    Outside of the actual GUI, is it so bad to leave a hint of mystery to the game?  It is one thing to have to fight an interface or be completely thrown off by its design.  But is it really so bad that some mechanics, especially those that are easily determined via some experimentation, reading documentation or asking a fellow player, initially obfuscated? 

     

    Part of my fun this weekend was learning about crafting and all that it entails.  It seems like a system that is quite easy to understand but will be hard to master all it's nuances (which I like).

     

    Nowadays, I wonder if some players solely just want to game a game's systems as opposed to, you know, playing the game - and therefore want to know every data point behind everything so they can most efficiently map out how to "play" the game.

  • alterfenixalterfenix Bielsko-BialaPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Why can I not trade? (Because you need to ungroup!)

    How can I leave Cyrodiil?

    How do I use a repair kit?

    Do I get gear decay from PVP death?

    How do Synergies work? (Most people I met didn’t even KNOW they exist!)

     

     

    Most of this is, in fact, explained in game. :)

    I don't think the trading was working properly this weekend, so I'm fairly sure you don't need to ungroup to trade.

    Cyrodiil's tutorial explains the wayshrine to exit, use of repair kits (even has you actually USE a repair kit on a siege weapon), and a bunch more. I don't recall on gear decay, but it may have been explained. If not, it would be pretty easy to figure out through play.

    If you press F1 in game there is a whole section full of tutorials and information on most aspects of the game.

    Where do you get this tutorial stuff for Cyrodiil? Because last time I check I've got only info how to move fast between keeps. And it ended there.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon

    Not going to dwell on the extensive help available in-game that MikeB already mentioned...it's there...use it.

     

    But I do have to say that for me, a huge part of enjoying new MMOs, heck, new games in general, is being challenged with learning a new way to play. The more of that there is, the more fun it is. I guess we're all different, eh?

     

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Not going to dwell on the extensive help available in-game that MikeB already mentioned...it's there...use it.

     

    But I do have to say that for me, a huge part of enjoying new MMOs, heck, new games in general, is being challenged with learning a new way to play. The more of that there is, the more fun it is. I guess we're all different, eh?

     

    wrong, we are the Borg. You will be assimilated!

    There Is Always Hope!

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,716Administrator Uncommon
    Originally posted by alterfenix
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Why can I not trade? (Because you need to ungroup!)

    How can I leave Cyrodiil?

    How do I use a repair kit?

    Do I get gear decay from PVP death?

    How do Synergies work? (Most people I met didn’t even KNOW they exist!)

     

     

    Most of this is, in fact, explained in game. :)

    I don't think the trading was working properly this weekend, so I'm fairly sure you don't need to ungroup to trade.

    Cyrodiil's tutorial explains the wayshrine to exit, use of repair kits (even has you actually USE a repair kit on a siege weapon), and a bunch more. I don't recall on gear decay, but it may have been explained. If not, it would be pretty easy to figure out through play.

    If you press F1 in game there is a whole section full of tutorials and information on most aspects of the game.

    Where do you get this tutorial stuff for Cyrodiil? Because last time I check I've got only info how to move fast between keeps. And it ended there.

    There is a "Welcome to Cyrodiil" quest that starts up when you first enter. If you actually follow it and do the training (you can skip the training), you will learn most of what you need to know.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member

    Well then those explanations are BAD, because the same 20 questions arise every 10 seconds in chat.

    If you play WOW, everything is self explanatory, because it is either simple (not easy, if you can see the difference), and self explanatory. ESO is cryptic, often making things different for the sake of, and needs *better* explanations. I regard myself a relatively dedicated gamer, experienced in dozens of MMOs, and if I didn't find it in a natural way that means, the explanation stuff was done bad.

    Just look at the chat ingame. It shows quite vividly something is amiss in the state of Denmark.. err Tamriel.

     

    In part I blame the HORRIBLE console UI. That nefarious "wheel" thing is bad enough. The locked mouse as well. So many cumbersome things. Some many times just making it different "because".

     

    Ask yourself, honestly: do you think the average gamer, MMO or otherwise, is a very patient person? With a long attention span? Many MMO gamers try things out once or twice, and then leave it. That may be sad, but it remains true. I used to write user manuals as a job, and the rule of thumb was: write it is clear, that even an idiot would understand it. That is how good explanations work. They come to you. You don't have to seek them. Let the GAME be demanding, not the rulebook!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • timidobservertimidobserver Orlando, FLPosts: 245Member

    I actually like the way ESO doesn't hold my hand like so many other MMOs do. It doesn't start spamming me with tips and hint popups the moment I login. It expects you to figure some things out on your own or ask someone.

    It sucks that there are so many gamers like the OP that want flashing messages and boxes everywhere so that they don't have to figure anything out. 

  • Allacore69Allacore69 Casselberry, FLPosts: 839Member


    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..   next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials
    You seriously think that is good advise for a 200-300 million dollar expensive Triple A MMO? To "let people figure out"?


    Fishing was the only thing I could not figure out. Everything else is self explanatory.

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    hmmmm, I think there is a difference between learning what one can do in a game and learning the hard game mechanics.

    I'm all for dropping a person into the world and have them learn what happens when they go into that cave or learn that if they experiment with adding a certain component then  ...

    but things like "how you group, how you open the map, how you trade" etc should be explained.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    You seriously think that is good advise for a 200-300 million dollar expensive Triple A MMO? To "let people figure out"?

    Actually I kind of do think that's really good advice. I don't remember puzzles in Tomb Raider 3 or original Resident Evil as being the bane of those games. I seem to remember that being the reason we played them and liked them. MMO's have a wiki to tell you how to blink, breathe and fart and it's really one of the biggest downfalls.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    hmmmm, I think there is a difference between learning what one can do in a game and learning the hard game mechanics.

    I'm all for dropping a person into the world and have them learn what happens when they go into that cave or learn that if they experiment with adding a certain component then  ...

    but things like "how you group, how you open the map, how you trade" etc should be explained.

    And they typically are. Whenever you do something for the first time, you get a pop-up black background tutorial text on the bottom right of the screen or dead center on the screen in the case of crafting and other things. Same thing happens the first time you open the group interface, Campaign interface, buy a horse, open the stable, go to an open dungeon the first time, use your first sky shard, etc.

     

    Of course, anyone who just dismisses the pop-up without reading it might have a hard time figuring it out... so then they spam chat with questions.

     

    I see all that chat spam as just a symptom of the ADD MOBA generation trying to play a real MMO.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Well then those explanations are BAD, because the same 20 questions arise every 10 seconds in chat.

    If you play WOW, everything is self explanatory, because it is either simple (not easy, if you can see the difference), and self explanatory. ESO is cryptic, often making things different for the sake of, and needs *better* explanations. I regard myself a relatively dedicated gamer, experienced in dozens of MMOs, and if I didn't find it in a natural way that means, the explanation stuff was done bad.

    Just look at the chat ingame. It shows quite vividly something is amiss in the state of Denmark.. err Tamriel.

     

    In part I blame the HORRIBLE console UI. That nefarious "wheel" thing is bad enough. The locked mouse as well. So many cumbersome things. Some many times just making it different "because".

     

    Ask yourself, honestly: do you think the average gamer, MMO or otherwise, is a very patient person? With a long attention span? Many MMO gamers try things out once or twice, and then leave it. That may be sad, but it remains true. I used to write user manuals as a job, and the rule of thumb was: write it is clear, that even an idiot would understand it. That is how good explanations work. They come to you. You don't have to seek them. Let the GAME be demanding, not the rulebook!

    I'm honestly confused by the vehemence of your diatribe.  A lot of people were patient enough to reply to you, to show you that in-game information exists, and if that isn't enough you can ask in chat or seek outside sources.  In my mind, the people of this forum satisfied your question and concerns..yet you disregard all that and continue to rage.  Having seen your post history, I see there is a pattern. 

     

    Perhaps it's a matter of ESO not being a good match for you?  If you find yourself frustrated and angry and bringing it to the forums on a continual basis, maybe that's a sign to find a game that you actually enjoy.  Game's are supposed to be a place to escape and have fun, and it seems like this one isn't working out for you.

     

     

    image
  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Well then those explanations are BAD, because the same 20 questions arise every 10 seconds in chat.

    If you play WOW, everything is self explanatory, because it is either simple (not easy, if you can see the difference), and self explanatory. ESO is cryptic, often making things different for the sake of, and needs *better* explanations. I regard myself a relatively dedicated gamer, experienced in dozens of MMOs, and if I didn't find it in a natural way that means, the explanation stuff was done bad.

    Just look at the chat ingame. It shows quite vividly something is amiss in the state of Denmark.. err Tamriel.

     

    In part I blame the HORRIBLE console UI. That nefarious "wheel" thing is bad enough. The locked mouse as well. So many cumbersome things. Some many times just making it different "because".

     

    Ask yourself, honestly: do you think the average gamer, MMO or otherwise, is a very patient person? With a long attention span? Many MMO gamers try things out once or twice, and then leave it. That may be sad, but it remains true. I used to write user manuals as a job, and the rule of thumb was: write it is clear, that even an idiot would understand it. That is how good explanations work. They come to you. You don't have to seek them. Let the GAME be demanding, not the rulebook!

    Those "20 question in chat" as you call them makes me really wonder why people don't really pay attention to what they are playing.

    Though I partially agree on your last part but I also feel I will be beter off when that unpatient player leave this genre.

     

  • DilweedDilweed EindhovenPosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Well then those explanations are BAD, because the same 20 questions arise every 10 seconds in chat.

    If you play WOW, everything is self explanatory, because it is either simple (not easy, if you can see the difference), and self explanatory. ESO is cryptic, often making things different for the sake of, and needs *better* explanations. I regard myself a relatively dedicated gamer, experienced in dozens of MMOs, and if I didn't find it in a natural way that means, the explanation stuff was done bad.

    Just look at the chat ingame. It shows quite vividly something is amiss in the state of Denmark.. err Tamriel.

     

    In part I blame the HORRIBLE console UI. That nefarious "wheel" thing is bad enough. The locked mouse as well. So many cumbersome things. Some many times just making it different "because".

     

    Ask yourself, honestly: do you think the average gamer, MMO or otherwise, is a very patient person? With a long attention span? Many MMO gamers try things out once or twice, and then leave it. That may be sad, but it remains true. I used to write user manuals as a job, and the rule of thumb was: write it is clear, that even an idiot would understand it. That is how good explanations work. They come to you. You don't have to seek them. Let the GAME be demanding, not the rulebook!

    Those "20 question in chat" as you call them makes me really wonder why people don't really pay attention to what they are playing.

    Though I partially agree on your last part but I also feel I will be beter off when that unpatient player leave this genre.

     

    1 Million people play a game

    20 people ask the same question

    It surely must be the game, not the people...

  • Jagwar_FangJagwar_Fang Lexington Park, MDPosts: 262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reham34
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

     

    next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

    You seriously think that is good advise for a 200-300 million dollar expensive Triple A MMO? To "let people figure out"?

    Well it doesn't matter because if the game held your hand like you want it to others would cry it's too hand holding.  

    Where did you get the $200-300 million number ?

    i think it is a good thing for company because instead of holding your hand you will need to TAKE TIME and learn it.  

    I am personally glad I have to figure some stuff out.  It's refreshing to not be treated like an 8 year old for a change.  To each there own I guess.

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