Originally posted by Yodi2007 Tried the game and like every other MMO since FFXI, EvE, and WoW are utter GARBAGE! The game is empty, bland and boring worst ES series I've ever played!
What does this have to do with the OPs question?
Cause he said "Wait till level 10"! wait for what? I have truly given up on all MMO's and moved back to single player games both PC and Consoles!
Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!
People who quit MMOs before level 20 probably shouldnt play MMOs.
Early levels arent a science yet, and ive not played any MMO that has done early game right, but if you play 5 levels and quit, then you shouldnt play at all, most of the time nothing happens before level 20, no dungeons no pvp no meaningful talents.
playing an mmo and quitting before level 10, is like putting in a single player game and quitting after the prologue.
That may be how modern MMORPG's are, but those of us who started with the likes of EQ, DAoC, and SWG beg to differ. Those games were hard and engaging from the get go. There were open world dungeons to explore before level 10. As for DAOC, there were open world battlegrounds with sieging starting at level 1. You basically had access to all parts of the game you'd ever experience from very early levels. Many old MMORPG's were like this. So those comments don't really hold any weight if a veteran MMORPG player is reading them. I guess it's all based on what you started with. If you started with the early MMORPG's, your expectations for future MMORPG's are formulated based off of those early experiences. If you started with WoW or in the post-WoW era, you probably don't expect a game to get engaging until later on into the game.
Having only played this weekend's beta, I don't think it's about the lvl.
It's really what you're anticipating to happen and whether or not you're likely to give it a fair shake.
Different games do it differently and all it boils down to is how receptive we are to it, barring the obvious CTD's or annoying bugs. We all have baggage we bring to the table and it ultimately affects our perception of a new game.
We also like different things so, for some, getting to lvl 'X' to 'unlock the fun' can be a pain. While for others, just enjoying the game and accepting its flaws, it's tolerable..even enjoyable.
If you don't like the first hour of playing, don't force yourself. Maybe it just isn't for you. There's no need to endure something because of the like or dislike someone else.
Why does everyone say to give the game until level 10 before giving up on it?
Just curious. Does the game open up much more or something at this magic level?
Don't care about spoilers so answer away. :P
Yes at level 10, in a very magical way, the combat will stop having bad animations, the flow of combat will suddenly somehow become good, the story will no longer be boring and make sense, and the questing will stop being staple quests that you have been doing in just about every MMO ever made.
The horse will also have rainbows over them and your bank account will double.
Still has not been one single article on any game site showing a single innovation in the game. Nothing new = been there done that. Doesn't matter if its taking things from many and placing it into one package, that's exactly what WoW did.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by evilastro I pushed through past 10 and it got better, but still not good enough. Dungeons and PvP are a welcome change from the terrible dialogue, questing and courier quests, unfortunately the combat at its core is just boring. The combat animations and spell effects are also incredibly bad. So yeah, does it get better? Sure, if you just want to end the terrible quests, but if you don't like the combat it won't get better.
Coming form someone who thinks wowstar is a great game this just cracks me up. Have fun with the next wow.
I will, because the combat is actually fun and engaging, which carries over to dungeons, warplots, raids and adventures all being enjoyable ways to spend my time.
Have fun with the shallow / dull combat and boring, uninspired and poorly written quests of ESO. I don't know how they managed to make something as lore rich as the Elder Scrolls seem dull, but they did it. Bravo Zenimax.
Those statements would make sense only if there wern't MMOs out there with both those things, and I assure you...there are.........as well as the social and charecter progression points you listed.......I think the main quesitong is, why settle for less?
...snip
Read the post I quoted....does he mention any of that? Nope....and snipping the post i quoted doesn't hide it.....he said social interaction and charecter progression only....hence my reply...
I realise you are offended for some unknown reason, but if you are going to quote me to prove some point that I never disagreed with, at least reply with the correct context.
Well this is my package and I'm certain you don't have a game for me that matches this one. I'm with them, animations are low on the scale for me. If you don't consider all the gear, weapon, and skill choices progression what is progression to you?
Why do you feel the need to debate thing I never said or implied? Honestly....please..for the love of god, go read the exchange that you quoted.
He said he plays MMOs for social interaction and charecter progression, not for smooth combat, animations, and good UI. I then stated that there are MMOs out there with smooth combat, good animations, clean UI, as well as social interaction and charecter progression, so why settle for less?
At what point did I say ESO didnt have charecter progression, or care/debate what your total package is????? For all you know, I agree with you...i havent said anything implying otherwise....you need to relax a bit on forums bro lol.
I don't need to do anything but see you define character progression without using skills, gear, or weaponry. Then when we are done with that you can tell me how "ignore, guild functions, and being rewarded for healing" are not related to social interaction.
Why are you talking as if I said ESO didnt have charecter progression or social interaction??.....why are you ignoring every one of my replies?? You need to read...thats R-E-A-D. ESO has TONS of charecter progression and social interaction....why are you still talking as if I EVER implied otherwise????...LMAO This is honestly getting scary
I don't know what this reading thing is, can you tell me a game where it's animated well so that I can understand it.
And thus, you finally scrolled up and saw that I never said ESO didn't have charecter progression or social interaction, and rather than come clean about your incorrect argumentative assumptions, you respond like a 4 year old. I would expect no less here lol.
Au Contraire. I've been trying to explain to you that character progression and social interaction are different in different games. That constitutes what I labeled a package. Since someone cannot receive the same package for those two items from another source and have the things that you consider an upgrade, they cannot take your advice and just find another "on of these" with animation in a different way. If you can't see that then why keep trying to make you understand. You've insulted me twice and been sarcastic, why shouldn't I respond to you with a little fun. I'm not explaining it to you again.
I can't believe that you are still sticking with your false belief that I said ESO didnt have charecter progression or social interaction....this is getting ridiculous...I think I should stop getting baited into this exchange with you lol.
While you are talking about one or two things he is talking about the whole game, and tries hard to explain why, but you keep spamming "I never said anything about this or that" as if it would make your original point somehow stronger against him bringing up the whole "package" instead of just few select parts of the game.
After level 10 to me it becomes less of a solo game and starts to morph into a group game.
- Explorers are going to enjoy the game as experience is given for finding new areas, unlocking chests and you can turn off the Quest tracking feature which adds to immersion and you can search for Skyshards.
- PvP is more than just a zerg fest, there are four different levels of quests from scouting to taking a keep for PvP experience. There are individual quests in the PvP area and subquests that have nothing to do with PvP. Completing quests gives you PvP and regular experience and equipment for your level. The 1st 3 pieces, for me, were upgrades or filled empty slots. Siege equipment, defensive and offensive options in castles.
- Banks have shared slots across the account, a handy feature.
- I like the no "defined class" with the options to add skill points where I want them. Guilds are not just window dressing, they give you quests and abilities to develop in addition to those for class or race.
That being said, except for PvP, there is nothing groundbreaking about the game. It is however, a solid fantasy MMO. I see it being a place for guilds to do more than chat, in PvP guilds can take over castles. There is more than the exp grind Exploration, PvP, crafting and so on.
At this point it is up to the consumer, the pages of rants for or against this game are just that, opinion. Take what you can from the wall of posts and form your own opinion. As the saying goes if you are not the lead dog, the view never changes... Lead, follow or get the heck out of the way.
If you don't like a game in the first 10 levels it is extremely unlikely that you are going to like the game. You can go through the early stage and not be sure and discover you love it, but if you honestly dislike those early levels there is most likely something about the game that simply does not appeal to you.
Why? WoW is boring the first 10 levels and look at how popular it is.
Except it takes less then 1 hour to get to level 10. Not really about the level but about the time spent before the 'fun' kicks in, which in turn isn't that amazing.
Oh, I'm not arguing that wow is more fun then ESO. Wow's leveling is very unfun.
Originally posted by evilastro I pushed through past 10 and it got better, but still not good enough. Dungeons and PvP are a welcome change from the terrible dialogue, questing and courier quests, unfortunately the combat at its core is just boring. The combat animations and spell effects are also incredibly bad. So yeah, does it get better? Sure, if you just want to end the terrible quests, but if you don't like the combat it won't get better.
Coming form someone who thinks wowstar is a great game this just cracks me up. Have fun with the next wow.
I will, because the combat is actually fun and engaging, which carries over to dungeons, warplots, raids and adventures all being enjoyable ways to spend my time.
Have fun with the shallow / dull combat and boring, uninspired and poorly written quests of ESO. I don't know how they managed to make something as lore rich as the Elder Scrolls seem dull, but they did it. Bravo Zenimax.
I'm going to have a ton of fun in wildstar also, but come on... "Poorly written quests of ESO?" Did you read the quests in Wildstar, ESO is heads and tails above wildstar is dialog, nevermind all the spelling mistakes in ESO, the dialog is still better then wildstar.
That said, not many games to dialog well. Swtor and TSW is probably on the top of the list. (not counting the tropper story for Swtor).
Then please quote me where I said ESO didnt have charecter progression or social interaction...this is gonna be good lol
/shrug
Here's your logic.
Animation in games is different and I can prove where it's better than this game in another place.
(offers no proof yet)
Character progression and social interaction is the same in every game because I told you that you will get the same experience by changing to a game with better animation.
^ that's your leap and flaw in logic
Here's my logic.
Animation in games is different.
Character progression and social interaction in games is different.
Just because a game has better animation does not mean that it has satisfactory or superb character progression or social interaction tools in the package.
^ how logic works
You can read that when you wake up. I know what I typed and I know that you still don't get it. Once it clicks you can meet me back on the chessboard.
Thats the thing, I DIDN'T say ESO had bad animations, or that other games had better ones...the poster that I QUOTED did....that's why this entire exchange is so amaizing....you are being sarcastic and implying that I have no "logic", yet you are 100% confusing me for another person lmao.
Those statements would make sense only if there wern't MMOs out there with both those things, and I assure you...there are.........as well as the social and charecter progression points you listed.......I think the main quesitong is, why settle for less?
...snip
Read the post I quoted....does he mention any of that? Nope....and snipping the post i quoted doesn't hide it.....he said social interaction and charecter progression only....hence my reply...
I realise you are offended for some unknown reason, but if you are going to quote me to prove some point that I never disagreed with, at least reply with the correct context.
Well this is my package and I'm certain you don't have a game for me that matches this one. I'm with them, animations are low on the scale for me. If you don't consider all the gear, weapon, and skill choices progression what is progression to you?
Why do you feel the need to debate thing I never said or implied? Honestly....please..for the love of god, go read the exchange that you quoted.
He said he plays MMOs for social interaction and charecter progression, not for smooth combat, animations, and good UI. I then stated that there are MMOs out there with smooth combat, good animations, clean UI, as well as social interaction and charecter progression, so why settle for less?
At what point did I say ESO didnt have charecter progression, or care/debate what your total package is????? For all you know, I agree with you...i havent said anything implying otherwise....you need to relax a bit on forums bro lol.
I don't need to do anything but see you define character progression without using skills, gear, or weaponry. Then when we are done with that you can tell me how "ignore, guild functions, and being rewarded for healing" are not related to social interaction.
Why are you talking as if I said ESO didnt have charecter progression or social interaction??.....why are you ignoring every one of my replies?? You need to read...thats R-E-A-D. ESO has TONS of charecter progression and social interaction....why are you still talking as if I EVER implied otherwise????...LMAO This is honestly getting scary
I don't know what this reading thing is, can you tell me a game where it's animated well so that I can understand it.
And thus, you finally scrolled up and saw that I never said ESO didn't have charecter progression or social interaction, and rather than come clean about your incorrect argumentative assumptions, you respond like a 4 year old. I would expect no less here lol.
Au Contraire. I've been trying to explain to you that character progression and social interaction are different in different games. That constitutes what I labeled a package. Since someone cannot receive the same package for those two items from another source and have the things that you consider an upgrade, they cannot take your advice and just find another "on of these" with animation in a different way. If you can't see that then why keep trying to make you understand. You've insulted me twice and been sarcastic, why shouldn't I respond to you with a little fun. I'm not explaining it to you again.
I can't believe that you are still sticking with your false belief that I said ESO didnt have charecter progression or social interaction....this is getting ridiculous...I think I should stop getting baited into this exchange with you lol.
While you are talking about one or two things he is talking about the whole game, and tries hard to explain why, but you keep spamming "I never said anything about this or that" as if it would make your original point somehow stronger against him bringing up the whole "package" instead of just few select parts of the game.
I never made a point about ESO...I never said ANYTHING about ESO...he, and you, are apparently confusing me with someone else....if you would have actually read the entire exchange, you would have seen that....
He/she has time and time again kept going on about ESO, and asking me to answer or justify things that I never said....is that normal to you? lol
For the record, I happen to agree 100% with everything said so far....ESO's total package is pretty amaizing thus far...thats whats so funny about this......you guys need to relax a bit
Comments
Cause he said "Wait till level 10"! wait for what? I have truly given up on all MMO's and moved back to single player games both PC and Consoles!
Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689
That may be how modern MMORPG's are, but those of us who started with the likes of EQ, DAoC, and SWG beg to differ. Those games were hard and engaging from the get go. There were open world dungeons to explore before level 10. As for DAOC, there were open world battlegrounds with sieging starting at level 1. You basically had access to all parts of the game you'd ever experience from very early levels. Many old MMORPG's were like this. So those comments don't really hold any weight if a veteran MMORPG player is reading them. I guess it's all based on what you started with. If you started with the early MMORPG's, your expectations for future MMORPG's are formulated based off of those early experiences. If you started with WoW or in the post-WoW era, you probably don't expect a game to get engaging until later on into the game.
Just something to keep in mind.
Having only played this weekend's beta, I don't think it's about the lvl.
It's really what you're anticipating to happen and whether or not you're likely to give it a fair shake.
Different games do it differently and all it boils down to is how receptive we are to it, barring the obvious CTD's or annoying bugs. We all have baggage we bring to the table and it ultimately affects our perception of a new game.
We also like different things so, for some, getting to lvl 'X' to 'unlock the fun' can be a pain. While for others, just enjoying the game and accepting its flaws, it's tolerable..even enjoyable.
If you don't like the first hour of playing, don't force yourself. Maybe it just isn't for you. There's no need to endure something because of the like or dislike someone else.
Yes at level 10, in a very magical way, the combat will stop having bad animations, the flow of combat will suddenly somehow become good, the story will no longer be boring and make sense, and the questing will stop being staple quests that you have been doing in just about every MMO ever made.
The horse will also have rainbows over them and your bank account will double.
Still has not been one single article on any game site showing a single innovation in the game. Nothing new = been there done that. Doesn't matter if its taking things from many and placing it into one package, that's exactly what WoW did.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I will, because the combat is actually fun and engaging, which carries over to dungeons, warplots, raids and adventures all being enjoyable ways to spend my time.
Have fun with the shallow / dull combat and boring, uninspired and poorly written quests of ESO. I don't know how they managed to make something as lore rich as the Elder Scrolls seem dull, but they did it. Bravo Zenimax.
While you are talking about one or two things he is talking about the whole game, and tries hard to explain why, but you keep spamming "I never said anything about this or that" as if it would make your original point somehow stronger against him bringing up the whole "package" instead of just few select parts of the game.
After level 10 to me it becomes less of a solo game and starts to morph into a group game.
- Explorers are going to enjoy the game as experience is given for finding new areas, unlocking chests and you can turn off the Quest tracking feature which adds to immersion and you can search for Skyshards.
- PvP is more than just a zerg fest, there are four different levels of quests from scouting to taking a keep for PvP experience. There are individual quests in the PvP area and subquests that have nothing to do with PvP. Completing quests gives you PvP and regular experience and equipment for your level. The 1st 3 pieces, for me, were upgrades or filled empty slots. Siege equipment, defensive and offensive options in castles.
- Banks have shared slots across the account, a handy feature.
- I like the no "defined class" with the options to add skill points where I want them. Guilds are not just window dressing, they give you quests and abilities to develop in addition to those for class or race.
That being said, except for PvP, there is nothing groundbreaking about the game. It is however, a solid fantasy MMO. I see it being a place for guilds to do more than chat, in PvP guilds can take over castles. There is more than the exp grind Exploration, PvP, crafting and so on.
At this point it is up to the consumer, the pages of rants for or against this game are just that, opinion. Take what you can from the wall of posts and form your own opinion. As the saying goes if you are not the lead dog, the view never changes... Lead, follow or get the heck out of the way.
Except it takes less then 1 hour to get to level 10. Not really about the level but about the time spent before the 'fun' kicks in, which in turn isn't that amazing.
Oh, I'm not arguing that wow is more fun then ESO. Wow's leveling is very unfun.
I'm going to have a ton of fun in wildstar also, but come on... "Poorly written quests of ESO?" Did you read the quests in Wildstar, ESO is heads and tails above wildstar is dialog, nevermind all the spelling mistakes in ESO, the dialog is still better then wildstar.
That said, not many games to dialog well. Swtor and TSW is probably on the top of the list. (not counting the tropper story for Swtor).
Thats the thing, I DIDN'T say ESO had bad animations, or that other games had better ones...the poster that I QUOTED did....that's why this entire exchange is so amaizing....you are being sarcastic and implying that I have no "logic", yet you are 100% confusing me for another person lmao.
I never made a point about ESO...I never said ANYTHING about ESO...he, and you, are apparently confusing me with someone else....if you would have actually read the entire exchange, you would have seen that....
He/she has time and time again kept going on about ESO, and asking me to answer or justify things that I never said....is that normal to you? lol
For the record, I happen to agree 100% with everything said so far....ESO's total package is pretty amaizing thus far...thats whats so funny about this......you guys need to relax a bit