Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Huge pay to win
Wizardry
Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards.
Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p.
Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
still not pay 2 win. there is only 1 card that you can get in Hearthstone by purchasing that you cant get by playing. Do dailies, do arenas, you can unlock every card eventually but slowly.
I disagree about it being p2w. I thought this was the case originally also, but I did my quests, the hidden quests ( such as 100 wins ) and have managed to get legendaries a few times.
I actually save up 150 gold, run an arena and hope for profit. It works, often i get a pack, 60-100 gold and some enchanting material from one arena run... Unless I suck, i at least always get a pack of cards to open.
I would consider constructed Pay 2 Win or Pay for a massive advantage. Players who spend money will have an advantage over those who don't.. The only other way to be competitive is to play for months. However during that time you won't be competitive at the upper levels. It would probably take a casual player, who only plays a few games a week, at least a year to be competitive without spending money.
Of course you have those who will say that it isn't Pay 2 Win because it doesn't have a literal "I Win" button.
Oh geez another one of "you" people. You do realize in ALL tcg/ccg even IRL you must purchase cards to build decks and play right?
Blizzard even gave you a way to earn decks with free gold thru dailies and stuff. What would you have them do, not make a dime and give every single player every single card for free? Gimme a effing break!!!
Pay to win? What card can I buy that will let me win? I don't understand.... Where is this all powerful card that you can only get by paying?
Oh wait, people don't know what pay to win is....
SWTOR Referral Bonus!
Referral link
7 day subscriber level access
Returning players get 1 free server transfer
Leveling assistance items given to new player!
See all perks Here
So playing longer than someone else is now pay 2 win ?
Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p.
LOL, so they played against the computer more than you chose to and you are complaining, (beat the AI class and unlock that deck) I find it funny you obviously don't know anything about the game because it seemed every single card was OP.
If you were playing unranked who cares what their cards were, do what you are supposed to do at the beginning and READ the cards and learn WTF you are supposed to be doing, if you were playing ranked the match maker put you against someone of similar rank, I've earned many packs for free just playing and learning the game.
I guess I will just never understand the "entitled" mentality, it's not fair because someone else has something i don't so I'll come online and cry about it.
As far as a casual player competing at high levels, good luck with that, casual joe can dump $1000 into the game right now and it won't mean a thing, the top players are top players because they play the game constantly, the meta changes hour to hour and if you don't keep up with it you are behind and at a disadvantage, doesn't make a difference how many cards you have.
No ,but playing less than someone else and paying to be able to beat them, could be construed as Pay 2 Win.
So how is buying random cards going to make you beat them?
Terrible example. There are very few things in this world where you challenge or compete against another person, where the person who trains or practices the most will not win.
I am not about to pick up a tennis racquet and expect to have a 50/50 change of beating Roger Federer !
Wizardry, ignore the trolls, the game is clearly p2w. But my question is, what CCG isn't? Faeria is the only one I know of that isn't p2w, its b2p and grind2win (duels of the planeswalkers don't really count). But every other CCG from Duels of Champions to Infinity Wars, Hearthstone to Solforge, and even hybrid games like Cardhunter, all have the same payment model. You mention MTGO which is also pure p2w without even a way to grind the cards slowly.
I guess bottom line is, if you don't like p2w, CCG games are NOT the genre of gaming you want to be in. Of course if you love CCG's but just hate p2w and want a game where everyone has access to the same cards, there's always Cockatrice.
You break down those cards and make the cards you need.
Welcome to the world of card games...
There is nothing "pay to win" about any TCG. Buying boosters (or trading cards) to improve your deck is the very essence of what TCG's are all about, it's been this way since Magic came out in '93, and it will always be this way. Serious players often buy entire boxes of booster packs, just for the chance of getting one or two extremely rare cards.
Hearthstone has added an alternative method of obtaining cards for players who don't want to spend any cash (which is selfish to be entirely honest, way to show your support for the developer...) and you still see these complainers who want everything that someone else has, but are unwilling to do what is required to achieve that goal.
You have a few choices:
(1) Spend money to improve your deck immediately, like EVERY other TCG on the face of the planet.
(2) Grind out packs by gaining gold through playing the game (and be thankful that this option is even available at all).
(3) Stick with a basic deck, get shit on, and come complain on forums about the game being "pay to win".
Options 1 and 2 are completely respectable. Option 3 is the equivalent of complaining that someone with a Ferrari F50 just blew the doors off of your 1995 Ford Tempo.
You claim that you spent time playing MTG, yet this very simple premise, of which the entire game is built upon, seems to elude you.
/facepalm
Well 1 or 2 got the point,has nothing to do with playing longer or playing the computer.
The difference is that the original you purchased physical cards ,nice looking cards that were covered in work by artists.Then in the online version if you collected a full set you could also redeem that for physical cards as well.
Also if i chose to goto a card shop ,we would work out a fair game.You can't have a fair game when matched with cards that have powerful multi mechanics while i am playing single weak mechanic cards.The more powerful cards are also more powerful for the mana spent.You can also form multiple combinations when buying 100''s of packs,your not getting hundreds of packs the normal way for a VERY very long time.
Soon the game releases full the top players will have all spent on hundreds of packs.Those players will have sponsored websites and enter in payout tournaments,the rest ,well you will be funding it all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So.... you don't know what Pay to Win means. kk
SWTOR Referral Bonus!
Referral link
7 day subscriber level access
Returning players get 1 free server transfer
Leveling assistance items given to new player!
See all perks Here
Dear Wizardry,
If you don't want to be over powered, I highly suggest you grind for gold and go play in booster tourneys.
Every CCG is P2W. That is the very nature of the beast. A couple of years ago I dropped almost $750 on running a 3 Jace discard deck. I made most of that money back by selling them when I realized I didn't care for the people I was playing against. Most whined because it wasn't fair, and I told them to come back on Friday night with our own little booster tourneys. That's the ENTIRE reason for such format is to be on an "even" keel.
Of course, you pull a legendary in the booster tourney and you basically hit the I win button (unless you miss play terribly).
I'm sorry you feel it's unfair but those of us who have played this game for MONTHS have worked our butts off for the cards/gold (and I have bought some packs with games I've sold back to gamestop and gotten blizz cards).
Even you acknowledge that you haven't unlocked all the packs/decks yet. I suggest you do so before trying to compete. That's like complaining that you brought a pea shooter into a gun fight with an M-60. Blizzard has done a comparitively good job of balancing gameplay but a lvl 1 white mage will never be able to fight a lvl 60 white mage and hope to win.
I'd be curious to see if you'd complain if someone who didn't "pay" for packs whooped you. Still P2W then?
I have been playing Hearthstone about a month and a half now. I mainly play Shaman. I am rank 5 currently. The deck I use is basically the same one I have used since day one. All the good cards in that deck I never payed for. In fact it was not til last Thursday when I decided to buy some booster packs from Blizzard..
I only bought because I like the game and am willing to support it. I spent 20 dollars. Of that 20 dollars I received many doubles of cards I already had and one legendary. The legendary I dont even use!
I do not see how this game is a "Huge Pay To Win". In my view the OP has never really played hearthstone and is trolling the game. In reality, I spent 20 dollars with no significant impact to my gameplay.
To me, Hearthstone is a bargain! A fun one at that!@!!!
I spent $3 on this game to get the dumb Goblin and that is it. I now own almost every card in the game. Thing is my best deck still barely uses any legendary cards. The cards all follow the same budget and you don't need to ever spend a penny to get them all.
Yes- Its P2W...But what CCG isnt?
I am anti 'p2W' and honestly pretty much anti 'F2P'- But with a CCG I totally understand the need for this concept.
Having played CCG's via tabletop since the early 1990s (and still playing) I knew what the payment system would be and am fine with it...
HS has bigger issues than 'P2W'- It feels single player, there is no community and its bare boned- Bugs are still around from since the day I started playing (including arena DC/Floating cards/position movement) and its being fixed and added onto at a snails pace- And Blizzard (one of the most wealthy game companies around) is actually claiming the "small team" excuse.
I really liked the game at first- Dropped $20 and decided I would buy $20 in cards each month I played (I anticipated a long run...)- Game LOOKS fantastic, plays pretty well (a bit over simplified) and considering its made by Blizz I figured this will be the most popular CCG online and even introduce people to the genre and help bring them to more complex games on the the tabletop .
I was very excited-
My enthusiasm went from "YEAH" to "Meh" to "bleh" rather quickly.
Game isnt worth the $20 I dropped on it. Buy the Marvel TCG (for PC) for probably $10- $15 and you will have everything , can play online and have tons of variety... HS feels like a bad single player game and I do not see it improving.
-Which is too bad. I wanted to love this one.
EDIT- That isnt to say the game will never be great- I still have hope. Based on what I have seen and the rate of development (for a fairly simple game) I would anticipate that it will not be great (or even good)- But one can hope. I would say play totally free since it isnt worth a dime in its current state- Waste some time and learn the game. Hope that you can revisit this in a year and have a good , solid game waiting for you- Right now it is neither good nor solid and has the amount of features and options I would expect from an indie team in early alpha- Yes it looks really, really good- But under the hood? Not so much.
Hearthstone is not pay to win.
It probably is the cheapest CCG in existence. Since you can buy a pack with free GOLD every 2 days by just doing the daily.
Comparing that to MTG in money spending is ridiculous.
That being said: the no lifers - basement dwellers - will have a clear cut advantage since they will assemble all cards through 4-5 months long grinding at 6 hours a day.
So it is not pay to win: it is grind to win in the long run as most winning decks these days in tournaments have 6 to 8 legendary/epic card combos.
Still, if you absolutely WANT to pay for packs, the game will set you back around 250 Euro in the long run. Peanuts for other CCG's.
Positive:
- Fantastic interface.
- Great to follow matches on Twitch. Huge spectator value.
- Darn cheap for a CCG. What about 0 Euro and still having access to Legendaries after 3/4 months.
- Crafting system is better than trading in a computer game (no scamming, no gold mafia).
- Tense and very simple card game. Fast to play in 8 minutes sessions.
Negative:
- Simple card game with smart mechanics but not the depth of some other card games.
- Match making is fucked up in non rated play.
- Monthly reset of rankings is bad for casual players as you confront each new month über decks in the first week.
- Typical Blizzard game: made for nerds and geeks. Blizzard forgot Mr/Mrs Casual on the iPad having fun.
- For the moment no iPad/tablet versions
- Not enough challenging PVE content. they are promised, but knowing Blizzard that could take ages.
Hearthstone card packs can be bought with in game Gold.
Doing the daily gives you one free card pack every 2 days. That's 15 free booster packs per month.
That's a whopping 90 free booster packs after 6 months.
In other CCG's that would set you back around 350 dollars or more, in Hearthstone that's zero dollars.
Calling this pay to win is calling every game you buy a pay to win system.
HS is a typical grind to win game! It is a typical Blizzard game: you play it until your face sees blue.
Its huge success is already showing: both Wizardry and Sukyaki showing up in a thread about a Blizzard CCG without playing it or they would know the grind mechanics surely.
The problem with such a huge pay to win gets worse as the game progresses and that is another question,HOW does the game move forward from here?
I have seen it all as i have played this game a LOT in the short time since i started playing.
Many already have the cards they need ,so what is next?More orange cards and have players grind for them,but what if the players don't need those,then what?Make cards that are so o/p that players just outright buy tons of packs so they can start reaping the rewards faster?O/p the NEXT generation of cards is always a bad design but one that is assured because they NEED to entice spending.
It takes a VERY long time to amass the cards and until then you play for free as i have done.Yes it is still fun,anyone that likes card games will love it.However the valuable cards offer a BIG advantage and that is they have very powerful multiple abilities,basically like playing 2 cards for the price of one.
I have won many a game going the freebie route but the odd time i hit a player that is using a HQ deck,i get smoked with no chance at all.The reason these multi ability cards are so powerful is because the game design is basically a trade one card for one card.You put out a 3/2 or a 2/3 and i match it with similar.This happens all the way until someone gains the advantage with the HQ cards.
It takes a lot of winning to get 150 gold to enter ONE Arena and then it becomes a total crap shoot.Unless you have played a lot of arena you will not know the trend of cards and there is a huge difference from one Arena to the next.
Still as the game gets more HQ cards it becomes a game that further the gaps between new player and old.It is a really bad design because more and more players will already have powerful synergy decks leaving new players with a lose..lose ..lose scenario.Only way they can catch up is by spending LOTS of money.
What they SHOULD have done or maybe will is create seasons of cards,meaning you have to use ONLY the newest season to build a deck and not all your cards.Then have all matches needing gold ,perhaps 50 to enter,winner gets 110 and so on to match the present reward system.Otherwise maybe 2-3 years later there will be 200 HQ cards all with synergy,no way a new player is jumping in and competing versus that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.