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Huge pay to win

WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 11,053Member Rare

No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards.

Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p.

Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.

Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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Comments

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards. Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p. Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.

    still not pay 2 win.  there is only 1 card that you can get in Hearthstone by purchasing that you cant get by playing.  Do dailies, do arenas, you can unlock every card eventually but slowly.

     

  • genoshangenoshan WollongongPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    I disagree about it being p2w. I thought this was the case originally also, but I did my quests, the hidden quests ( such as 100 wins ) and have managed to get legendaries a few times.

     

    I actually save up 150 gold, run an arena and hope for profit. It works, often i get a pack, 60-100 gold and some enchanting material from one arena run... Unless I suck, i at least always get a pack of cards to open.

  • DamediusDamedius Calgary, ABPosts: 346Member

    I would consider constructed Pay 2 Win or Pay for a massive advantage. Players who spend money will have an advantage over those who don't.. The only other way to be competitive is to play for months. However during that time you won't be competitive at the upper levels. It would probably take a casual player, who only plays a few games a week, at least a year to be competitive without spending money.

    Of course you have those who will say that it isn't Pay 2 Win because it doesn't have a literal "I Win" button.

  • DeathengerDeathenger atco, NJPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Oh geez another one of "you" people. You do realize in ALL tcg/ccg even IRL you must purchase cards to build decks and play right?

    Blizzard even gave you a way to earn decks with free gold thru dailies and stuff. What would you have them do, not make a dime and give every single player every single card for free? Gimme a effing break!!!

     
  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member

    Pay to win? What card can I buy that will let me win? I don't understand.... Where is this all powerful card that you can only get by paying?

     

    Oh wait, people don't know what pay to win is....

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  • U folks need to learn what pay to win is. If you could buy single cards then yes it would be but u are not. U are buying packs of RANDOM cards just like you do in real life.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    So playing longer than someone else is now pay 2 win ?

     

  • AndelithAndelith Watervliet, MIPosts: 20Member Uncommon

    Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p.

     

    LOL, so they played against the computer more than you chose to and you are complaining, (beat the AI class and unlock that deck) I find it funny you obviously don't know anything about the game because it seemed every single card was OP. 

    If you were playing unranked who cares what their cards were, do what you are supposed to do at the beginning and READ the cards and learn WTF you are supposed to be doing, if you were playing ranked the match maker put you against someone of similar rank, I've earned many packs for free just playing and learning the game.

    I guess I will just never understand the "entitled" mentality, it's not fair because someone else has something i don't so I'll come online and cry about it.

     

    As far as a casual player competing at high levels, good luck with that, casual joe can dump $1000 into the game right now and it won't mean a thing, the top players are top players because they play the game constantly, the meta changes hour to hour and if you don't keep up with it you are behind and at a disadvantage, doesn't make a difference how many cards you have.

  • DamediusDamedius Calgary, ABPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    So playing longer than someone else is now pay 2 win ?  

    No ,but playing less than someone else and paying to be able to beat them, could be construed as Pay 2 Win.

  • AndelithAndelith Watervliet, MIPosts: 20Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    So playing longer than someone else is now pay 2 win ?  

    No ,but playing less than someone else and paying to be able to beat them, could be construed as Pay 2 Win.

    So how is buying random cards going to make you beat them?

  • genoshangenoshan WollongongPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    Terrible example. There are very few things in this world where you challenge or compete against another person, where the person who trains or practices the most will not win.

     

    I am not about to pick up a tennis racquet and expect to have a 50/50 change of beating Roger Federer !

  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 444Member Uncommon

    Wizardry, ignore the trolls, the game is clearly p2w.   But my question is, what CCG isn't?    Faeria is the only one I know of that isn't p2w, its b2p and grind2win  (duels of the planeswalkers don't really count).    But every other CCG from Duels of Champions to Infinity Wars, Hearthstone to Solforge, and even hybrid games like Cardhunter, all have the same payment model.    You mention MTGO which is also pure p2w without even a way to grind the cards slowly.

     

    I guess bottom line is, if you don't like p2w, CCG games are NOT the genre of gaming you want to be in.   Of course if you love CCG's but just hate p2w and want a game where everyone has access to the same cards, there's always Cockatrice.  

  • DamediusDamedius Calgary, ABPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by Andelith So how is buying random cards going to make you beat them?

    You break down those cards and make the cards you need.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member Common

    Welcome to the world of card games...

    There is nothing "pay to win" about any TCG. Buying boosters (or trading cards) to improve your deck is the very essence of what TCG's are all about, it's been this way since Magic came out in '93, and it will always be this way. Serious  players often buy entire boxes of booster packs, just for the chance of getting one or two extremely rare cards.

    Hearthstone has added an alternative method of obtaining cards for players who don't want to spend any cash (which is selfish to be entirely honest, way to show your support for the developer...) and you still see these complainers who want everything that someone else has, but are unwilling to do what is required to achieve that goal.

    You have a few choices:

    (1) Spend money to improve your deck immediately, like EVERY other TCG on the face of the planet.

    (2) Grind out packs by gaining gold through playing the game (and be thankful that this option is even available at all).

    (3) Stick with a basic deck, get shit on, and come complain on forums about the game being "pay to win".

    Options 1 and 2 are completely respectable. Option 3 is the equivalent of complaining that someone with a Ferrari F50 just blew the doors off of your 1995 Ford Tempo.

    You claim that you spent time playing MTG, yet this very simple premise, of which the entire game is built upon, seems to elude you.

    /facepalm

     

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 11,053Member Rare

    Well 1 or 2 got the point,has nothing to do with playing longer or playing the computer.

    The difference is that the original you purchased physical cards ,nice looking cards that were covered in work by artists.Then in the online version if you collected a full set you could also redeem that for physical cards as well.

    Also if i chose to goto a card shop ,we would work out a fair game.You can't have a fair game when matched with cards that have powerful multi mechanics while i am playing single weak mechanic cards.The more powerful cards are also more powerful for the mana spent.You can also form multiple combinations when buying 100''s of packs,your not getting hundreds of packs the normal way for a VERY very long time.

    Soon the game releases full the top players will have all spent on hundreds of packs.Those players will have sponsored websites and enter in payout tournaments,the rest ,well you will be funding it all.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Well 1 or 2 got the point,has nothing to do with playing longer or playing the computer. The difference is that the original you purchased physical cards ,nice looking cards that were covered in work by artists.Then in the online version if you collected a full set you could also redeem that for physical cards as well. Also if i chose to goto a card shop ,we would work out a fair game.You can't have a fair game when matched with cards that have powerful multi mechanics while i am playing single weak mechanic cards.The more powerful cards are also more powerful for the mana spent.You can also form multiple combinations when buying 100''s of packs,your not getting hundreds of packs the normal way for a VERY very long time. Soon the game releases full the top players will have all spent on hundreds of packs.Those players will have sponsored websites and enter in payout tournaments,the rest ,well you will be funding it all.

    So.... you don't know what Pay to Win means. kk

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  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,450Member Uncommon

    Dear Wizardry,

    If you don't want to be over powered, I highly suggest you grind for gold and go play in booster tourneys.

    Every CCG is P2W.  That is the very nature of the beast.  A couple of years ago I dropped almost $750 on running a 3 Jace discard deck.  I made most of that money back by selling them when I realized I didn't care for the people I was playing against.  Most whined because it wasn't fair, and I told them to come back on Friday night with our own little booster tourneys.  That's the ENTIRE reason for such format is to be on an "even" keel.  

    Of course, you pull a legendary in the booster tourney and you basically hit the I win button (unless you miss play terribly).

    I'm sorry you feel it's unfair but those of us who have played this game for MONTHS have worked our butts off for the cards/gold (and I have bought some packs with games I've sold back to gamestop and gotten blizz cards).  

    Even you acknowledge that you haven't unlocked all the packs/decks yet.  I suggest you do so before trying to compete.  That's like complaining that you brought a pea shooter into a gun fight with an M-60.  Blizzard has done a comparitively good job of balancing gameplay but a lvl 1 white mage will never be able to fight a lvl 60 white mage and hope to win.

    I'd be curious to see if you'd complain if someone who didn't "pay" for packs whooped you.  Still P2W then?

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,109Member Uncommon
    The game is P2W, but I don't think that has to be a bad part of the game.    I think it just  over shadows the fun because the match making for casual play is a broken concept, and by the fact that players can not earn their 100 gold + daily through the AI.

     

  • xpowderxxpowderx Radcliff, KYPosts: 2,048Member Uncommon

    I have been playing Hearthstone about a month and a half now.  I mainly play Shaman. I am rank 5 currently. The deck I use is basically the same one I have used since day one. All the good cards in that deck I never payed for. In fact it was not til last Thursday when I decided to buy some booster packs from Blizzard..

    I only bought because I like the game and am willing to support it. I spent 20 dollars. Of that 20 dollars I received many doubles of cards I already had and one legendary. The legendary I dont even use!

    I do not see how this game is a "Huge Pay To Win". In my view the OP has never really played hearthstone and is trolling the game. In reality, I spent 20 dollars with no significant impact to my gameplay.

    To me, Hearthstone is a bargain! A fun one at that!@!!!

     

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,247Member Uncommon

    I spent $3 on this game to get the dumb Goblin and that is it. I now own almost every card in the game. Thing is my best deck still barely uses any legendary cards. The cards all follow the same budget and you don't need to ever spend a penny to get them all.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    Yes- Its P2W...But what CCG isnt?

    I am anti 'p2W'  and honestly pretty much anti 'F2P'- But with a CCG I totally understand the need for this concept.

     

    Having played CCG's via tabletop since the early 1990s (and still playing) I knew what the payment system would be and am fine with it...

     

    HS has bigger issues than 'P2W'- It feels single player, there is no community and its bare boned- Bugs are still around from since the day I started playing (including arena DC/Floating cards/position movement) and its being fixed and added onto at a snails pace- And Blizzard (one of the most wealthy game companies around) is actually claiming the "small team" excuse.

     

    I really liked the game at first- Dropped $20 and decided I would buy $20 in cards each month I played (I anticipated a long run...)- Game LOOKS fantastic, plays pretty well (a bit over simplified) and considering its made by Blizz I figured this will be the most popular CCG online and even introduce people to the genre and help bring them to more complex games on the the tabletop .

     

    I was very excited-

    My enthusiasm went from "YEAH" to "Meh" to "bleh" rather quickly.

    Game isnt worth the $20 I dropped on it. Buy the Marvel TCG (for PC) for probably $10- $15 and you will have everything , can play online and have tons of variety... HS feels like a bad single player game and I do not see it improving.

    -Which is too bad. I wanted to love this one.

     

    EDIT- That isnt to say the game will never be great- I still have hope. Based on what I have seen and the rate of development (for a fairly simple game) I would anticipate that it will not be great (or even good)- But one can hope. I would say play totally free since it isnt worth a dime in its current state- Waste some time and learn the game. Hope that you can revisit this in a year and have a good , solid game waiting for you- Right now it is neither good nor solid and has the amount of features and options I would expect from an indie team in early alpha- Yes it looks really, really good- But under the hood? Not so much.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member

    Hearthstone is not pay to win.

    It probably is the cheapest CCG in existence. Since you can buy a pack with free GOLD every 2 days by just doing the daily.

    Comparing that to MTG in money spending is ridiculous.

     

    That being said: the no lifers - basement dwellers - will have a clear cut advantage since they will assemble all cards through 4-5 months long grinding at 6 hours a day.

     

    So it is not pay to win: it is grind to win in the long run as most winning decks these days in tournaments have 6 to 8 legendary/epic card combos.

    Still, if you absolutely WANT to pay for packs, the game will set you back around 250 Euro in the long run. Peanuts for other CCG's.

    Positive:

    - Fantastic interface.

    - Great to follow matches on Twitch. Huge spectator value.

    - Darn cheap for a CCG. What about 0 Euro and still having access to Legendaries after 3/4 months.

    - Crafting system is better than trading in a computer game (no scamming, no gold mafia).

    - Tense and very simple card game. Fast to play in 8 minutes sessions.

     

    Negative:

    - Simple card game with smart mechanics but not the depth of some other card games.

    - Match making is fucked up in non rated play.

    - Monthly reset of rankings is bad for casual players as you confront each new month über decks in the first week.

    - Typical Blizzard game: made for nerds and geeks. Blizzard forgot Mr/Mrs Casual on the iPad having fun.

    - For the moment no iPad/tablet versions

    - Not enough challenging PVE content. they are promised, but knowing Blizzard that could take ages.

     

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki Posts: 1,443Member Uncommon

    Why where you even expecting anything else than a Pay2Win game? Of course it  a Pay2Win fest where momies credit card easily beats out player skill and dedication of anyone with a life. Blizzard just made and overhyped an uninovative TCG knock off port, to profit from an existing overhyped IP in another market. Neither the game nor Blizzard have ever given any objective or honest sign to bring some revolution or innovation to the genre. You should have seen that coming.

    "Hey I ignored all the fun content and played this game like a hamster because it was possible just spending long enough time in the wheel. Why are games so boring X-clones these days and can't be more like X? Im going back to grind repeatable tasks in X and hone my skills with some dice roles, waiting 14 months for the next paid content patch."
  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Why where you even expecting anything else than a Pay2Win game? Of course it  a Pay2Win fest where momies credit card easily beats out player skill and dedication of anyone with a life. Blizzard just made and overhyped an uninovative TCG knock off port, to profit from an existing overhyped IP in another market. Neither the game nor Blizzard have ever given any objective or honest sign to bring some revolution or innovation to the genre. You should have seen that coming.

    Hearthstone card packs can be bought with in game Gold.

    Doing the daily gives you one free card pack every 2 days. That's 15 free booster packs per month.

    That's a whopping 90 free booster packs after 6 months. 

    In other CCG's that would set you back around 350 dollars or more, in Hearthstone that's zero dollars.

    Calling this pay to win is calling every game you buy a pay to win system.

    HS is a typical grind to win game! It is a typical Blizzard game: you play it until your face sees blue.

    Its huge success is already showing: both Wizardry and Sukyaki showing up in a thread about a Blizzard CCG without playing it or they would know the grind mechanics surely.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,676Member Uncommon
    I started playing a few days ago and I to thought this was pay to win as I seem to suck at the game LOL. then I started watching top players on you tube and saw that they were winning with primarily basic cards, once I learned about synergy and how one card relates to another I was a much better player
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