I just don't think Pantheon had that imaginative spark that the likes of other successful kickstarted projects had.
Comparably, if we look at the Macquaid factor, Camelot Unchained shouldn't have funded either. But it did, because CSG not only dwelled on oldschool nostalgia but also mixed in some interesting creative nuances.
Pantheon just came off as simply another attempt at EQ and Vanguard. Camelot Unchained felt like CSG wanted to not only deliver another DAOC but also wanted to throw in some interesting new layers into the mix.
This was what I said in the first post, and is pretty much the only accurate answer.
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa And the irrational overblown McQuaid hate train keeps on rolling.
You apparently didn't read the article as the article is actually pretty much blaming Pantheon's failure on "Kickstarter-burnout."
I think between KS burnout and Steam greenlight burnout, many of us are just done throwing money at game concepts. Many of these games change during development and turn out to not be what we were told they would. They take forever to develop and launch making us wait for years or even worse, the development stops after a while and we are left with a shell of a game.
It just is not a very good investment anymore. We have absolutely no control over anything and once you give them your money the developer can legally do whatever they want. They can change the game, not implement features they advertised or they can stop development and party with the cash.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
High risk figurehead with a mountain of controversy
Kickstarter burnout? No.
All you have to do is look at, well, any thread where Pantheon and Brad come up and it becomes a flamewar due to Brad's past. No one speaks glowingly of how wonderful he is and what a solid, competent, trustworthy business investment he makes. So, I wonder why the Kickstarter failed. Oh, that's right, Kickstarter burnout.
I honestly don't think it has anything to do with Kickstarter burnout. This has more to do with no one trusting Brad McQuaid to deliver a working product based on nothing but a vague outline that, quite frankly, sounds kinda boring.
I've never personally participated in a kickstarter. Not because I didn't want to, but because I just can't afford to donate to the production of a game when I donate to other 'real' causes. If I were going to donate to the production of a game, this would have been it. I really hope Pantheon finds it way into reality, because this is the game I want to play.
Really seemed like the staff burned out on the last 10 days. They were doing video after video for almost a month then complete silence on the most important days left. It's textbook Brad McQuaid.....Generate a bunch of hype in the beginning then bow out at the end before anyone can blame him.
At least this project is attempting to continue but i see it slowly fading away while Brad cares less and less.
Most important thing about Kickstarter that people do not realize is the content of the Kickstarter. Pantheon's Kickstarter was horrible, having things like crafting and classes for stretch goals. Those things should be in the game already when competing in today's mmo market. Stretch goals should be awesome fluff, not things that are in every mmo on planet already. Brad showed up with a weak presentation, and idiotic stretch goals, surprised they did over 400k with that crap. Now charging 15 dollars a month for forum access, guy is just horrible with business and common sense.
I think it had more to do with Brad's outdated ideas and his vision for the game, not any sort of kickstarter fatigue. For example, SOTA, Elite, Torment, etc. are still bringing in money even after kickstarter campaigns.
I think that there are two reasons the kickstarter failed. The mmo community's interests are moving toward open ended sandbox games with combat that is more "actiony" than the tab target auto attack systems of the past. The other reason is brad's poor reputation after the vanguard debacle. I'm really surprised anyone wants to work for him, and even more surprised anyone wants to trust him with their money.
Why anyone would assume that people would be waiting with baited breath to throw money at McQuaid really makes me question your critical thinking skills. Unlike the fluff interview with him which was about as informative and worthwhile as Jon Stewart interviewing Obama, the reality is is that McQuaid is not a leader. The story of Vanguards demise is well documented throughout the internet; How about a quote from someone who was actually working with him:
"Brad McQuaid didn’t do shit. (News Flash?) He’s had an opiate addiction for years now, which only got progressively worse as the project failed. His cumulative face time with sigil designers in the most crucial final years of development? Approx: 15 minutes. And some of the time was spent begging for legitimately acquired narcotics (Or in times of desperation, jacking them from people’s desk)."
Anyone that supported this should seriously get their heads checked.
I agree that it wasn't Kickstarter burnout, but I could see how the question is asked. I kept getting two or three of them confused with each other. It was like half a dozen people got ideas and headed to Kickstarter all at the same time.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Kilsin is spot-on. Also Severius, are you that perfect you never made a mistake(s)? How about being in a hugely stressful and visible position? One where everything you do is being criticized. Some people would handle better than others, but don't judge the guy using facts about a situation you weren't personally involved in. And by head-checks you must mean headbutts? I'll headbutt you to death!
Seriously guys have fun with your AAA MMOs. When this game releases, I'll be sure to remember it's haters from here. Ill create a list of you who talk a lot of shit but are more than willing to play when it's ready.
Why anyone would assume that people would be waiting with baited breath to throw money at McQuaid really makes me question your critical thinking skills. Unlike the fluff interview with him which was about as informative and worthwhile as Jon Stewart interviewing Obama, the reality is is that McQuaid is not a leader. The story of Vanguards demise is well documented throughout the internet; How about a quote from someone who was actually working with him:
"Brad McQuaid didn’t do shit. (News Flash?) He’s had an opiate addiction for years now, which only got progressively worse as the project failed. His cumulative face time with sigil designers in the most crucial final years of development? Approx: 15 minutes. And some of the time was spent begging for legitimately acquired narcotics (Or in times of desperation, jacking them from people’s desk)."
Anyone that supported this should seriously get their heads checked.
I feel like there must be one person out there (probably you) constantly posting that anonymous and unsubstantiated quote whenever a google alert comes up with McQuaid. It's not "well documented". That isn't documented at all, except on the website of an angry ranting Vanguard fansite with no credibility. And that "fluff" interview was BRUTAL. Far more so than any other MMO interview I've seen.
In the end, he got so many Kickstarter pledges because he was the creative vision behind the two best PvE MMORPGs on the market.
It's simple. There are a ton of people asking for money for thier KS projects. Many of those projects are worthy and different from the AAA offerings currently availble. Any individual who produced a game that many people feel they got burned by is going to have a MUCH higher bar to meet when asking people to donate money to a new project. Pantheon did not come close to meeting that bar.
I've donated money to 4 KS so far (only one MMO) and have been fairly happy with the results. I pre-ordered VG, not only was it unplayable at launch but felt it was very poorly done as an MMO. Hence, no way in heck I'm donating money to Brad for a product sight unseen. IF he ends up producing a finished product and it's good, I may purchase and play it but I would have to be insane to give him any money in advance for it.
Meanwhile there are a number of other worthy KS projects out there who's creators don't have the same bad track record with me. I'm willing to consider giving money to some of those if they can offer compelling evidence that thier project is worthwhile and has a good chance of being able to be produced well. That's it.
to the contrary, I believe that KS is an absolutely great way for a relatively small developer to guage interest for their idea plus get some funding, and sometimes even be REALLY pleasantly surprised by the turnout.
Witness the successful KS games such as hex /camelot unchained/ star citizen.
the difference between these and pantheon wasnt KS fatigue, it was aradune fatigue.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
While I did not follow or look at this Kickstarter to closely I will say what I thought the game looked like from the outside.
It simply didn't look interesting. They didn't have really anything to show necessarily. "Most" Successful Kickstarters have something to show or have so many good ideas that it almost makes you WANT to spend at least a little bit on it. This did not have that effect (At least on me).
Personally I am done spending money on Kickstarters until I see the results of the ones I have already bought into. If they fail horribly, I will not be funding anything again. (Not that I don't understand that it could happen, but you can only be burned so many times and I like to use a little bit of logic when going into something.)
I really don't believe it had anything to do with kickstarter burnout. More likely the games concepts did not appeal to that many people and there is a lot of negativity associated with Brad's name. Combined they made it difficult to get that much money in the time allotted.
Originally posted by firefly2003 I dont trust Brad Mcquaid......enough said.
It just seems to me that Brad Mcquaid's reputation after "Vanguard Saga of Heroes" mess, isn't what it used to be when he was with Everquest. I know I don't trust the guy, Microsoft didn't trust him with Vanguard, so i'm sure a lot of possible investors are going...We shouldn't trust this guy. I mean this game could be great but I think this has become more about his name. I mean how can you trust this guy, when almost everything he said about Vanguard and never going back to SoE. He's not very trustworthy.
What Kickstarter Burnout? Sorry but that are just words of a sour losser. Recently funded Kingdome Come: Deliverance, those guys couldn't find any publisher to publish their medieval rpg (no fantasy). They finally found someone to fund the game but they had to bring some money on their own. Their goal was 800.000 i believe, but their stretched it big time. It got well funded.
The mandate, a space game that combines several genres. Got well funded too. Plenty of games meet their goals and beyond.
It is a trent to accuse Kickstarter of bad things. You didn't meet your goals? Then its obviousely Kickstarters fault for people having a Kickstarter burnout. Do developersnot meet the quallity they promised for their game? Kickstartes fault its so fraude sensative (yeah cause publishers like EA and Activision never screwed gamers over? Simcity 2013, Walking Dead (no not the tell tale adventure game) anyone?). He just suffers from not representing his game well enough. I mean you can't even say its hard for MMORPG's to get funded cause pathfinder got funded. It's all about presentation. Show something that excites people and show you stand behind it.
Comments
I think it has more to do with how far the MMO has to go before it's even playable.
Only ultra hardcore people will give money to a game that is over 5+ years away from launch.
This was what I said in the first post, and is pretty much the only accurate answer.
We're talking about the comments here.agree
EQ2 fan sites
I think between KS burnout and Steam greenlight burnout, many of us are just done throwing money at game concepts. Many of these games change during development and turn out to not be what we were told they would. They take forever to develop and launch making us wait for years or even worse, the development stops after a while and we are left with a shell of a game.
It just is not a very good investment anymore. We have absolutely no control over anything and once you give them your money the developer can legally do whatever they want. They can change the game, not implement features they advertised or they can stop development and party with the cash.
Steam: Neph
Kickstarter burnout? No.
All you have to do is look at, well, any thread where Pantheon and Brad come up and it becomes a flamewar due to Brad's past. No one speaks glowingly of how wonderful he is and what a solid, competent, trustworthy business investment he makes. So, I wonder why the Kickstarter failed. Oh, that's right, Kickstarter burnout.
Really seemed like the staff burned out on the last 10 days. They were doing video after video for almost a month then complete silence on the most important days left. It's textbook Brad McQuaid.....Generate a bunch of hype in the beginning then bow out at the end before anyone can blame him.
At least this project is attempting to continue but i see it slowly fading away while Brad cares less and less.
Why anyone would assume that people would be waiting with baited breath to throw money at McQuaid really makes me question your critical thinking skills. Unlike the fluff interview with him which was about as informative and worthwhile as Jon Stewart interviewing Obama, the reality is is that McQuaid is not a leader. The story of Vanguards demise is well documented throughout the internet; How about a quote from someone who was actually working with him:
"Brad McQuaid didn’t do shit. (News Flash?) He’s had an opiate addiction for years now, which only got progressively worse as the project failed. His cumulative face time with sigil designers in the most crucial final years of development? Approx: 15 minutes. And some of the time was spent begging for legitimately acquired narcotics (Or in times of desperation, jacking them from people’s desk)."
Anyone that supported this should seriously get their heads checked.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Agreed. Although I started with what you list as #4 there and couldn't get past it.
I agree that it wasn't Kickstarter burnout, but I could see how the question is asked. I kept getting two or three of them confused with each other. It was like half a dozen people got ideas and headed to Kickstarter all at the same time.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I feel like there must be one person out there (probably you) constantly posting that anonymous and unsubstantiated quote whenever a google alert comes up with McQuaid. It's not "well documented". That isn't documented at all, except on the website of an angry ranting Vanguard fansite with no credibility.
And that "fluff" interview was BRUTAL. Far more so than any other MMO interview I've seen.
In the end, he got so many Kickstarter pledges because he was the creative vision behind the two best PvE MMORPGs on the market.
It's simple. There are a ton of people asking for money for thier KS projects. Many of those projects are worthy and different from the AAA offerings currently availble. Any individual who produced a game that many people feel they got burned by is going to have a MUCH higher bar to meet when asking people to donate money to a new project. Pantheon did not come close to meeting that bar.
I've donated money to 4 KS so far (only one MMO) and have been fairly happy with the results. I pre-ordered VG, not only was it unplayable at launch but felt it was very poorly done as an MMO. Hence, no way in heck I'm donating money to Brad for a product sight unseen. IF he ends up producing a finished product and it's good, I may purchase and play it but I would have to be insane to give him any money in advance for it.
Meanwhile there are a number of other worthy KS projects out there who's creators don't have the same bad track record with me. I'm willing to consider giving money to some of those if they can offer compelling evidence that thier project is worthwhile and has a good chance of being able to be produced well. That's it.
to the contrary, I believe that KS is an absolutely great way for a relatively small developer to guage interest for their idea plus get some funding, and sometimes even be REALLY pleasantly surprised by the turnout.
Witness the successful KS games such as hex /camelot unchained/ star citizen.
the difference between these and pantheon wasnt KS fatigue, it was aradune fatigue.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
While I did not follow or look at this Kickstarter to closely I will say what I thought the game looked like from the outside.
It simply didn't look interesting. They didn't have really anything to show necessarily. "Most" Successful Kickstarters have something to show or have so many good ideas that it almost makes you WANT to spend at least a little bit on it. This did not have that effect (At least on me).
Personally I am done spending money on Kickstarters until I see the results of the ones I have already bought into. If they fail horribly, I will not be funding anything again. (Not that I don't understand that it could happen, but you can only be burned so many times and I like to use a little bit of logic when going into something.)
It just seems to me that Brad Mcquaid's reputation after "Vanguard Saga of Heroes" mess, isn't what it used to be when he was with Everquest. I know I don't trust the guy, Microsoft didn't trust him with Vanguard, so i'm sure a lot of possible investors are going...We shouldn't trust this guy. I mean this game could be great but I think this has become more about his name. I mean how can you trust this guy, when almost everything he said about Vanguard and never going back to SoE. He's not very trustworthy.
What Kickstarter Burnout? Sorry but that are just words of a sour losser. Recently funded Kingdome Come: Deliverance, those guys couldn't find any publisher to publish their medieval rpg (no fantasy). They finally found someone to fund the game but they had to bring some money on their own. Their goal was 800.000 i believe, but their stretched it big time. It got well funded.
The mandate, a space game that combines several genres. Got well funded too. Plenty of games meet their goals and beyond.
It is a trent to accuse Kickstarter of bad things. You didn't meet your goals? Then its obviousely Kickstarters fault for people having a Kickstarter burnout. Do developersnot meet the quallity they promised for their game? Kickstartes fault its so fraude sensative (yeah cause publishers like EA and Activision never screwed gamers over? Simcity 2013, Walking Dead (no not the tell tale adventure game) anyone?). He just suffers from not representing his game well enough. I mean you can't even say its hard for MMORPG's to get funded cause pathfinder got funded. It's all about presentation. Show something that excites people and show you stand behind it.