Originally posted by Jemcrystal There are no WoW clones. Everyone forgets WoW became popular because they let the public mod their UI. No other game has done that with legal blessings.
huh?
AC?
Again like somebody said,
nothing in WoW is original. it all came from somewhere. even the IP itself. It put those right pieces together in the right way. and polished it. Thats why it was a hit.
We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.
1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.
2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.
3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.
4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.
Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.
So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.
Definitely in the right direction. A minor death penalty too.
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
no immersion in character progression whatsover - only maxing counts - ESO modifications (those with visible enemy's health and other clutter) seems to prove me that WE - as all the spoiled players - are min/max fellas who want to be endgame instant locust
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
Absolutely. If I can run around and kill everything in sight non stop for 40 levels it's easy
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
Absolutely. If I can run around and kill everything in sight non stop for 40 levels it's easy
How does doing the same for months make it any harder?
Time is irrelevant.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
Absolutely. If I can run around and kill everything in sight non stop for 40 levels it's easy
How does doing the same for months make it any harder?
Time is irrelevant.
Maybe it's not the same for months. You would have to do other things. Maybe a quest took you days to do (and you didn't get exp for it). Or maybe your party you are leveling with takes some tweaking to make it better. So you tell one of your damage dealers that maybe he should be using this skill more or less and see how that affects the party. Maybe you want to try a really dangerous area that you think will pay off. Maybe you pay dearly for trying this (if there is a harsh death penalty).
wow is pretty much a clone in it self.. they take what other games have done successfully and copy it.. only reason folks use the term wow clone is because it's the most famous of the mmo's out there. in reality you'd be a fool not to imitate good aspects of games if you're not good enough to completely invent something new.
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
Absolutely. If I can run around and kill everything in sight non stop for 40 levels it's easy
How does doing the same for months make it any harder?
Time is irrelevant.
Maybe it's not the same for months. You would have to do other things. Maybe a quest took you days to do (and you didn't get exp for it). Or maybe your party you are leveling with takes some tweaking to make it better. So you tell one of your damage dealers that maybe he should be using this skill more or less and see how that affects the party. Maybe you want to try a really dangerous area that you think will pay off. Maybe you pay dearly for trying this (if there is a harsh death penalty).
Suddenly the time spent reaching the level cap is not enough to tell if the game is difficult or not. Maybe next time you should finish your thought before posting.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Since themepark MMOs at their core are about combat, the first and most important aspect for it to be a clone would require that it has tab target, non action combat (usually able to be macro'ed into damage priority). Aside from a few AEs (point blank and targeted), it shouldn't have any hit detection for skills. .
Neither ESO nor Wildstar are clones, and if one is, then both are. Both have action combat and limited hotbars / build creation, which separate them from WoW significantly in how they play. Other than that they have standard themepark MMO features.
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
I see the term being used more by people that hate WoW. Not so much by people that are WoW fans.
Not entirely , i hate what WoW has become, but I do not go around throwing the words "wow clone" at everything. Mostly i have seen this term used by WoW fanbois who think thier game is the best at everything and it was "innovative" and came first.
If it is an MMORPG being released after WoW launched, it will be called a WoW clone.
In reality, NONE of them are.
My sentiments as well. For instance TOR has been called a clone and I know better having played both. WOW has more open worlds and better AI while TOR's crafting system, companion system, questing system,and leveling experience are completely different. In WOW I have no choice in how I answer a quest giver nor do I even get a chance to hear my character speak. Immersion is constantly broken every time I have to wait with other players for a boss to respawn where in TOR that rarely happens due to the use of phasing. They are both themepark games but TOR is no more a clone of WOW than Miley Cyrus is a clone of Madonna.
Ps: I can't help but notice since I came back to WOW how the questing experience has now changed with the added emphasis on story and cut scenes. Wonder where that idea came from?
Ps: I can't help but notice since I came back to WOW how the questing experience has now changed with the added emphasis on story and cut scenes. Wonder where that idea came from?
Not from SWTOR at least, they started down this path of cut scenes, story and voice acting in Wrath of the Lich King back in 2008. SWTOR didn't come out until 2011.
I would say games like SWTOR with devs that state "we include feature X - because WoW has it" would qualify.
In general I consider games that are *TOO* mainstreamed, to such extremes that it disrupts gameplay and makes the game too trivial, WoW-ized or, if it was this way from the start and is conceptional, it makes the game a WoW clone. Examples include:
- Extreme instancing, making fights for ressources unknown, but also removing the sense of living in a world with thousands of other players.
- Enforced raiding at endgame as basically the exclusive form of endgame content
- Low quality drops of new expansions are superior to the best raid gear available before
- Ever raised maxlevel that is reachable at very high speeds and old content simply gets outdated
To me, the defining feature of WoW was its quest hub based leveling system. It probably wasn't the first game to do it, but it streamlined it into an art form. For me, three things make a WoW clone:
1. Quest hub based leveling (primarily solo).
2. Gear grind focused gameplay.
3. Tab-targeted, GCD-focused combat.
I guess you could also throw in an honorable mention of 'The Interface.' You know what I mean: chat box in one corner, minimap in another corner, and a cluster of actionbars on the bottom of your screen.
Comments
huh?
AC?
Again like somebody said,
nothing in WoW is original. it all came from somewhere. even the IP itself. It put those right pieces together in the right way. and polished it. Thats why it was a hit.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
wow was a clone of eq1 short and sweet
they still are copying ideas from soe every chance they get . so why say how wow changed the genre
eq2 has a panda race 4 years later wow has a panda race and theres alot more
eq1 had mounts 6 years later wow has mounts
so wow just a clone of another game already nothing new on the genre
and people say there cloneing wow well no there cloneing eq1 and gamers that never played eq1-eq2 say its a wow clone
moo all
I see the term being used more by people that hate WoW. Not so much by people that are WoW fans.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Definitely in the right direction. A minor death penalty too.
If WoW was a clone of EQ then there would be a lot less instances, more group content, like no insta travel, a harsh death penalty, classes that actually depend on each other, races actually mattered etc.
Edit: Also there would be no quest markers in WoW and you wouldn't have your hand held from point A to point B ad infinitum. Dungeons would be more complicated.
What makes a WoW-clone minded community?
power-leveling
rushing to end game
cookie-cutter gameplay
gear threadmill
no immersion in character progression whatsover - only maxing counts - ESO modifications (those with visible enemy's health and other clutter) seems to prove me that WE - as all the spoiled players - are min/max fellas who want to be endgame instant locust
Um ... basing a game on another doesnt mean you copy that game 1:1 in all aspects.
Besides, WoW was, as everybody I met who played it at release assured me, quite difficult in the beginning.
When it was first released I went from level 1-40 in like a week.
You measure difficulty by how fast you reach the level cap? Things are worse than I thought...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Absolutely. If I can run around and kill everything in sight non stop for 40 levels it's easy
How does doing the same for months make it any harder?
Time is irrelevant.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Maybe it's not the same for months. You would have to do other things. Maybe a quest took you days to do (and you didn't get exp for it). Or maybe your party you are leveling with takes some tweaking to make it better. So you tell one of your damage dealers that maybe he should be using this skill more or less and see how that affects the party. Maybe you want to try a really dangerous area that you think will pay off. Maybe you pay dearly for trying this (if there is a harsh death penalty).
Judging from the people using and abusing the term the following makes a WOW clone :-
1) Being a mmorpg
2) Being a computer game
That pretty much seems to be what makes a wow clone.
WoW makes the best WoW clone.
If I want to play WoW then I just go back and play Wow.
If i'm playing another MMo then why would I want it to play a game that is just like the one I just finished playing (WoW)?????
That's what I ask myself every time I buy a new MMO.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
Suddenly the time spent reaching the level cap is not enough to tell if the game is difficult or not. Maybe next time you should finish your thought before posting.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Anything that is a knock-off, rip-off, imitation, or copy of most or all of the original.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Since themepark MMOs at their core are about combat, the first and most important aspect for it to be a clone would require that it has tab target, non action combat (usually able to be macro'ed into damage priority). Aside from a few AEs (point blank and targeted), it shouldn't have any hit detection for skills. .
Neither ESO nor Wildstar are clones, and if one is, then both are. Both have action combat and limited hotbars / build creation, which separate them from WoW significantly in how they play. Other than that they have standard themepark MMO features.
Not entirely , i hate what WoW has become, but I do not go around throwing the words "wow clone" at everything. Mostly i have seen this term used by WoW fanbois who think thier game is the best at everything and it was "innovative" and came first.
My sentiments as well. For instance TOR has been called a clone and I know better having played both. WOW has more open worlds and better AI while TOR's crafting system, companion system, questing system,and leveling experience are completely different. In WOW I have no choice in how I answer a quest giver nor do I even get a chance to hear my character speak. Immersion is constantly broken every time I have to wait with other players for a boss to respawn where in TOR that rarely happens due to the use of phasing. They are both themepark games but TOR is no more a clone of WOW than Miley Cyrus is a clone of Madonna.
Ps: I can't help but notice since I came back to WOW how the questing experience has now changed with the added emphasis on story and cut scenes. Wonder where that idea came from?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Not from SWTOR at least, they started down this path of cut scenes, story and voice acting in Wrath of the Lich King back in 2008. SWTOR didn't come out until 2011.
I would say games like SWTOR with devs that state "we include feature X - because WoW has it" would qualify.
In general I consider games that are *TOO* mainstreamed, to such extremes that it disrupts gameplay and makes the game too trivial, WoW-ized or, if it was this way from the start and is conceptional, it makes the game a WoW clone. Examples include:
- Extreme instancing, making fights for ressources unknown, but also removing the sense of living in a world with thousands of other players.
- Enforced raiding at endgame as basically the exclusive form of endgame content- Low quality drops of new expansions are superior to the best raid gear available before
- Ever raised maxlevel that is reachable at very high speeds and old content simply gets outdated
To me, the defining feature of WoW was its quest hub based leveling system. It probably wasn't the first game to do it, but it streamlined it into an art form. For me, three things make a WoW clone:
1. Quest hub based leveling (primarily solo).
2. Gear grind focused gameplay.
3. Tab-targeted, GCD-focused combat.
I guess you could also throw in an honorable mention of 'The Interface.' You know what I mean: chat box in one corner, minimap in another corner, and a cluster of actionbars on the bottom of your screen.