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Originally posted by artemisentr4 Originally posted by udon This game will live or die on two things. First and foremost how successful PVP is received and second how diligent Zenimax is keeping the new content coming post launch. I don't think most people have a issue paying for a sub but a lot of them do have issues paying for a sub and not receiving any perceived value out of it.
One good thing is the Veteran point system for post level 50 advancement. You can play PvP, elite dungeon runs, 50+/50++ and should have adventure zones that will all give you skill points and Veteran points. You need to be "x" level of veteran to buy vender gear at end game.
Crafting looks to be the top end game gear, but it will take a lot of work and skill points to get there. So that will be something to keep players playing both PvE and PvP. PvP for the keeps to sell the gear on a AH will be something guilds will want. Elite dungeon drops will be needed for crafting mats and research.
They already have the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild along with a justice system that will be in after launch. Those will bring in new skills and quests. They also said that new skill lines will be coming along with new ways to earn skills.
I can see the game lasting a long time with both a healthy PvP end game and PvE end game. But it may come down to how the Adventure zones work and when they are in the game.
Anyone who has followed past MMO launches should realize that developers talking about post launch plans and developers delivering on post launch plans are two very different things. Even Rift which did a great job with content post launch didn't live up to the promises they made pre launch.
I am hopeful enough with ESO to pre order the game and plan on playing day one. I am skeptical enough about this industry as a whole that I won't call ESO's long term success or my continual sub to it until I have seen them show they can deliver on the promises.
I am pro sub but in this market if your not WoW if your going to rate a sub you better deliver constant new things for people to be doing. I think PVP could play a part in keeping people longer term to but my impression is they are going to need both PVP and PVE players in this game to make it work long term.
People are way to interested in general opinions.... will TESO make it.... meaning will other people like it?
Ask yourself two questions :
-Will i have fun playing it
-How long do i think this fun will last
And then make a decision if its worth the money... As simple as that..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Knotwood Originally posted by Bannuk Originally posted by Knotwood This game will not only survive launch but will be the next WoW of the decade, not that it will steal WoW's player base, but bring in the single players into MMO by the millions. Also if they run an advertisement campaign world wide like WoW did with celebs and major brands, it should easily hit 10 million subs in the first year. Only thing that will slow its growth is XBOX Live, requiring both LIVE and a game sub. I think after xbox players see the greed of Microsoft they'll make the right choice and sell their XBOX and go with PS4 or PC since sony is allowing this game to be a stand alone sub and as far as PC goes, there nothing more then internet required.
I like the game as well, but where are you pulling those numbers out of? Wait, don't tell me. I think I can smell it.
I guess you must have missed the fact SKYRIM sold over 20 million copies and was number one RPG game for over a year straight.
My guess is that ESO will be pretty successful, but I doubt it'll have WoW numbers - though one can hope.
Then again... if a lot of the Skyrim fans that haven't played MMO's before actually make the transitition...
The incredibly famous actors will also help in acquiring new converts.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Feel free to send me a message if you want a guest pass to try Black Desert Online as well!
At start, it could get huge numbers from being an Elder Scrolls game, the newest MMO for players to jump into, and the RvR.
In the end, I think the ones who stay will be people hardcore for the RvR, some of the Elder Scroll fans, an then just a small amount of the MMO jumpers. Should be fine.
Originally posted by Technohic At start, it could get huge numbers from being an Elder Scrolls game, the newest MMO for players to jump into, and the RvR. In the end, I think the ones who stay will be people hardcore for the RvR, some of the Elder Scroll fans, an then just a small amount of the MMO jumpers. Should be fine.
Over 500 hours of story based content... thats the reason i will play this game for a very long time... espescially if they keep updating the game with new zones, stories, dungeons, adventures...
If you combine that with an ever raising number of new skills, skillpoints and skilltrees and you have an ever expanding world with allmost endless character progression..
Sure i will PvP, because its fun, and i will roleplay a lot... but the endless progression system in PvE combined with the ever evolving stories will be the reason for me to play
Why are you so irrelevant?
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by Technohic At start, it could get huge numbers from being an Elder Scrolls game, the newest MMO for players to jump into, and the RvR. In the end, I think the ones who stay will be people hardcore for the RvR, some of the Elder Scroll fans, an then just a small amount of the MMO jumpers. Should be fine.
You know SWTOR said the same thing. A month after launch I had 2 level 50's without skipping any of the zone quest lines, both with maxed out ship's in purple gear and half a set of top line raid gear on my main with all the rest of the slots in lower grade purples.
I'm not saying ESO will do the same thing, I'm actually hopeful they looked at their peers and saw the mistakes they made and improved upon them. But I'm not going to assume that everything the developers say is true either until I have seen it with my own eyes at launch. I'm certainly not in any hurry to delete my toons from EQ2 or TSW which are really the only two MMO's I'm playing right now.
Originally posted by udon Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by Technohic At start, it could get huge numbers from being an Elder Scrolls game, the newest MMO for players to jump into, and the RvR. In the end, I think the ones who stay will be people hardcore for the RvR, some of the Elder Scroll fans, an then just a small amount of the MMO jumpers. Should be fine.
There is a difference between ESo and SWTOR...
SWTOR just promissed more content.
ESO has a philosophy of not only continous content updates, but also continous character development..
All in all as a realist, i know new content can never be produced as fast as players devour it. And thats why there is PvP to fill the gaps between new PvE content.. but then not only SWTOR, but also GW2 has proofed that its hard to generate enough new content..
WoW, has chosen the diehard raid side of theing, because as long as you make things very hard (vanilla) it takes people ages to get passed the new content... but this philosophy does not fit ESO, as it will be a grind... and grinding is something we dont like..
Just lets see how fast they can push new content... personally i think it will take me atleast 1000 hours to finsih what they allready deliver on release (with a single character) playing all PvE content and finishing it, getting to veteran rank 10, doing a lot of PvP and finally doing some roleplaying and lots of crafting and gathering.. With an average of 20 (in the first few weeks 30) hours a week, it will take me a year, just wondering how much new content they can push before that moment?
The only way this game could be as bad as SWTOR for me is if they ripped out the RvR stuff the way SWTOR did Illum. For that matter, I have played SWTOR since launch and have never completed all the PvE content outside of most the class stories, but that's because I am not into a lot of PvE content. Its why this game just sort of looks like it will fit me.
Originally posted by Brunio A big question I ask myself before I consider picking up an MMO is "Will it survive the launch hurdle?" Whats that mean? The first couple months are VERY important for an MMOs survival. The initial impression players receive, how long does it take them to reach max level? how much end game is there? Is the PvP balanced/highly addictive? Are there extremely long-term or hard-to-get rewards that players can strive to achieve? After so many MMOs have either gone free-to-play or just downright crashed and burned it makes a big difference in whether or not players such as myself pick up the game. As it stands TESO has a good development team working on the PvP. The game seems to take a good long time to reach max level. Gearing while leveling should require at least some work since the game only uses Guild Vendors rather than an AH. I've also heard good things about the story since the NDA was lifted. My big concerns are the End-Game Gearing/PvE. While I'm sure it will keep players interested for a while. A couple of months down the road Juicy content/patches will probably be needed to keep the game addictive and fun. Which also makes me curious as to how the Xbox/PS launch will affect the first patch. At this point I'd like to think TESO has what it takes. It has a good PvP team, a cool system, and is slow enough to not be rushed through and beaten down by the vast majority of gamers, but truly one never knows until its launched and you've been around for a while. Almost feels like I'm starting a new game of Civ. Will The Elder Scrolls Online survive the test of time?
To me it's all about the future of the game. A MMO needs new content to keep people playing and subscribed. That means higher level caps, more gear, new things to kill, new things to find, and new places to explore. So will it survive? It's all on them and making the game better.
I do love the fact that they're really listening to the community, adding collision to monsters, allowing the tutorials to be skipped and etc. That's good seeing as those things weren't getting that great of praise.
I think it is just good enough to survive though I still think it will eventually go to B2P down the road. Wildstar might completely tank but ESO has the fanbase and is just different enough than what is already out there that it will do ok.
Originally posted by alloin No
Despite what you might think of the game it's silly to think that it won't carve out a niche for itself of some sort and manage to stay online for many years to come. What form that takes and how relevant to the overall landscape of the MMO market it remains is a completely debatable point and I think a real open question that's going to be hard to answer prior to sometime after 4/4. But will the game close down in a year/ two years or even three? I really can't see that happening.
There is a pretty simply way to figure out if a game will "make it or not". First of all, we need to define making it. If you think making it will be like becoming the next WoW etc then you have a huge huge expectation to live up to. If you believe making it entails having a loyal fan base of a million or less subs that sustain through 2-3 years then your expectations are more realistic.
Every sub fee MMO since WoW has either gone F2P, sustained through the subs with a smaller but dedicated player base, or flat out died. Heres my take on it, ESO will not flat out die. It wont be like Warhammer online where everything just crashes and burns but there is no way it will de-thrown WoW or replace it in any manner. It will either go F2P or sustain via a small dedicated crowd of players. The game is not enough like the single player games to actually sustain 20 million subs a year, also having a sub in general will turn off a lot of those people who purchased skyrim in the first place and thats just part of the nature of an MMO. Every MMO when it comes down to it lives or dies on the end game. If there isn't enough PvE and PvP content to satiate people long threw the end of the game then it will probably go f2p. this is what happened with Swtor and is happening to FF14:ARR. Many people left FF14:ARR before the first patch because they took too long to release it and when they finally did it wasnt actual progression content but rather content that was easier then what they were already working on.
I do see potentially big issues at launch for this game, namely the fact that it uses one server. Many games that have used many servers have hit large issues prior to this. Even games like diablo 3 with blizzard as their devs had issues at launch because the player base was too overwhelmingly big. Some people had a horrible impression of the game after that and that coloured their experience from then on. the same goes for an MMO except because you are paying a fee for every month it compounds on its self. If you are paying money for a game you expect to be able to play that game, its very simple logic. Another huge red flag for me is the fact that they have already established pay walls with the imperial race and the cross faction race abilities for preorders. Since they have announced that there will be no cash shop at least at launch, then only people who payed those 20 extra dollars for their game will have the ability to play imperial. If they all the sudden release the race then those people who payed 20 extra dollars will be burned. either way they are locking something that isn't cosmetic behind a pay wall and telling people that if they want to play the entire game the need to pay those 20 extra dollars.
A lot of people on the forums talk about how the slower progression of leveling in this game will actually help it in the long run but imo, it will hurt it. The gamer community is very much fickle: They want everything now. Slower leveling will eventually bore those people out of the game if its too slow and if it isnt slow enough it will show how little end game content there is. Its pretty standard for people from wow, namely guilds, to choose the next big MMO and move over to it for a month or two before migrating back to wow because it didnt satisfy them and because theyve already spend so much time into wow and a new wow expansion is about to be released. Honestly, making an MMO in general is just setting up for failure these days. To think that ESO is going to do something that some 20-30 other games have tried in the past 10 or so years is kind of silly. It is however, very realistic to believe that maybe it will make it out alive with a small close nit following because of its name sake, then again as we've seen with games like Sw:Tor and Warhammer, this isn't always the case. Hell, Sw:tor also felt like a single player RPG when you were leveling. It had a lot of the same features that ESO is offering and did some of them better but it still "failed". Anyhow, I do hope somehow im wrong and this is a good game that i will eventually buy and enjoy for a few years, but i have a feeling that ill have to wait at least a few years to find another game that scratches that MMO itch in the way that I used to love (aka, AC, DoAC, EQ, EQ2, AC2, AO, etc etc etc).
Originally posted by KnotwoodThis game will not only survive launch but will be the next WoW of the decade, not that it will steal WoW's player base, but bring in the single players into MMO by the millions. Also if they run an advertisement campaign world wide like WoW did with celebs and major brands, it should easily hit 10 million subs in the first year. Only thing that will slow its growth is XBOX Live, requiring both LIVE and a game sub. I think after xbox players see the greed of Microsoft they'll make the right choice and sell their XBOX and go with PS4 or PC since sony is allowing this game to be a stand alone sub and as far as PC goes, there nothing more then internet required. If your afraid of running out of content, I think there is enough here for atleast 3 months from launch. They will be doing updates every 4-6 weeks, but they also have Crafting as the best gear makers in game, this is something that if content runs dry, will keep this game going np. If they added enough solo things to do while waiting to raid ect. I think they should also be fine if content does run out. I think we'll have to see just how fast they can crank out content and time sinks for players after 3 months. If they really want to keep players occupied during dry content runs, I suggest Solo Skirmish Systems like LOTRO, Solo/Group end game progression and Housing with lots of funishings that crafters can spend hours on, with dungeon throphy drops people love to try to get ect. More things to keep us busy the better.
wow has the Chinese market, that's why they have 11 million subs or whatever it was.
you think there are gonna be 10 millions subs just in NA and EU alone?
Elder Scroll fans are going to be either disappointed or very bored after just a short play time. The game for ES fans only LOOKS a little bit like say the previous two installments of the single player games. It take place in the ES "universe" but for me, it doen't look enough like that universe....the MMO graphic trade-off. As for gameplay, it plays more like LOTRO, WOW, Aion, Tera, Warhammer, SWTOR and many more. Which to me is not enough difference to consider the game.
Now don't get me wrong. Zenimax has developed a pretty good generic MMO. Combat is sound if uninspired. Graphics are on a par with about any previous MMO out there. But, it just doesn't get me excited about playing it. I was going to purchase and play. Now, I do not plan to at all.
Let's party like it is 1863!