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Massively article showing they are not sure about the subscription model

alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 bucharestPosts: 250Member

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/25/elder-scrolls-online-inviting-millions-for-stress-test-while-f/

 

There is also this: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/450862/interviews/interview-bethesdas-pete-hines-on-the-legacy-of-wolfenstein-and-the-eso-subscription-model/

 

This shows they are not sure on the subscription model.

 

My take on it is that they are waiting for the release to decide if they want to go F2P.

 

What do you guys think?

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Comments

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon

    Are we reading the same thing? What part of the answer is making you think that they're not sure about the subscription model? He basically laughed-off the "anxiety" part of the question they asked.

     

    Typical Massively to spin it that way... unless they just plain didn't understand the answer...which is also entirely possible for them.

     

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 bucharestPosts: 250Member

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member

    Can I haz free games? 

     

    I am happy with my sub-based games. I hope they stand strong on keeping them.

  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member
    Yeah, the author of that article is obviously spinning what was actually said.  This is a Triple A game and they would be nuts to throw it into the waste bucket by making it F2P.

  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

    Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW?  If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    What do I think.

    Well I think if they went free after talking about how they wanted to be sub they would lose more people than you know.

    Payment models have become the Hatfield and McCoys. Very few people I've encountered actually like both models and they've only been on forums. Anyone I met in games or IRL who played games always had a preference.

    Some of us are more vocal. I'll scream it from the tree to anyone listening that I simply won't touch a free to play game now. If it ever becomes all that MMOs offer then all that does is leave me an opening to market my own game and leave playing them instead becoming hell bent on a mission to finish my game off. 

    I didn't see them say they were switching or that they had plans to. I saw them say that they understand there is risk involved in any model and they are right. There is a chance that none of us buy any game that comes out and some people are not doing grand economically in several countries but as long as we know that games are a luxury and not a necessity for life and people are spending in either model then they know the money is there.

    Some get desperate and take away all payment so that you can't complain about payment at all - knowing full well that they want you to pay eventually. I'm over 30, I don't need the mind games. We know companies require money to run, tell me what you need and we can talk - the pussyfooting around about price and pretending things are really free is something only kids fall for. At some point something will cost money because no one buys their groceries with  good intentions.

    They should want the model that is consistent rather than nail biting. Especially when you can do package deals where someone pays for a year upfront or a plan of months at a time. That's guaranteed revenue. Free games are all fighting for their patrons and the least pay to win cash shop accusations. Not being free certainly puts them into a different bracket.

    With this model they can work on the game, with the other model they have to work on the shop and for more "sales" which just become ads. I think they realize that and do think that this model suits their game. They know people have clocked thousands of hours on Skyrim so the interest is there to do it for this type of game. A subscription game is interested in people sticking around for awhile, if you aren't paying in a free game no one cares if you stay because you are dead weight.

     

  • AndrewGoatAndrewGoat St. Albans, WVPosts: 96Member
    I sincerely hope this game stays subscription. It usually winds up making it so theres less trolls.
  • ArndushArndush Dallas, TXPosts: 303Member

    Having read his full comments and not the usual Massively hack job on anything ESO related, I don't feel anything has changed. Is there going to be some anxiety? Sure, what responsible executive wouldn't be a little anxious. As good a job you think you've done, you never truly know how it will turn out until the paying consumer gets a hold of it too. But, I also thought there was a lot of confidence in his remarks.

    I think it's very simple. If the market believes the game is worth $15/mo, the sub model will succeed. Especially if they fix any problems that pop up and continue to crank out new material at the rate he is suggesting. If not, well then the market won't pay for it and they'll have a decision to make.

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 bucharestPosts: 250Member
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

    Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW?  If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.

    MMO`s have a lot more players than that. There are F2P games that dwarf WOW... not saying they make more money, but they sure have more players.

    What i said is pretty much what some EA suit said about why SWTOR went F2P - because most people did not want to pay 15$/month for a game.

    WOW had a freak success but it has not been replicated since..... 

    World of Tanks has 75m players... they had 1.1 million concurrent players in january.... and is a F2P game. There are more like it... overall the F2P side of the industry is bigger than the sub-only side of the  industry.

    I still like sub games and wish ESO would stick with a sub... but its unlikely.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/25/elder-scrolls-online-inviting-millions-for-stress-test-while-f/

     

    There is also this: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/450862/interviews/interview-bethesdas-pete-hines-on-the-legacy-of-wolfenstein-and-the-eso-subscription-model/

     

    This shows they are not sure on the subscription model.

     

    My take on it is that they are waiting for the release to decide if they want to go F2P.

     

    What do you guys think?

    I think you need to re-read Justin's spin article from Massively vs what Pete Hines from Bethesda actually said.

     

    For reiteration:  spin vs reality.

     

    "We felt like the subscription model fit best what we wanted to do, not because we want you to pay per month to play the game, but because we want to provide real and meaningful content support on a regular basis."

     

    Massively is just creating another article to get more hits on their site.  Your post is perpetuating that drama of the ongoing subscription vs F2P nonsense. 

     

    image
  • WarThorWarThor Collinsville, OKPosts: 42Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen

    Payment models have become the Hatfield and McCoys. Very few people I've encountered actually like both models and they've only been on forums. Anyone I met in games or IRL who played games always had a preference.

     

     

    I think your right Hatfield's and McCoy's feuding.   By the way you pic is funny nice stash.

     

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

    Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW?  If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.

    MMO`s have a lot more players than that. There are F2P games that dwarf WOW... not saying they make more money, but they sure have more players.

    What i said is pretty much what some EA suit said about why SWTOR went F2P - because most people did not want to pay 15$/month for a game.

    WOW had a freak success but it has not been replicated since..... 

    World of Tanks has 75m players... they had 1.1 million concurrent players in january.... and is a F2P game. There are more like it... overall the F2P side of the industry is bigger than the sub-only side of the  industry.

    I still like sub games and wish ESO would stick with a sub... but its unlikely.

    Ok, so if anyone wasn't entirely clear of the bent of your thread, now we know what is going on.  It's "Another One of Those" discussions to add to the pile.  Gotcha, bud image

    image
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 bucharestPosts: 250Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

    Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW?  If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.

    MMO`s have a lot more players than that. There are F2P games that dwarf WOW... not saying they make more money, but they sure have more players.

    What i said is pretty much what some EA suit said about why SWTOR went F2P - because most people did not want to pay 15$/month for a game.

    WOW had a freak success but it has not been replicated since..... 

    World of Tanks has 75m players... they had 1.1 million concurrent players in january.... and is a F2P game. There are more like it... overall the F2P side of the industry is bigger than the sub-only side of the  industry.

    I still like sub games and wish ESO would stick with a sub... but its unlikely.

    Ok, so if anyone wasn't entirely clear of the bent of your thread, now we know what is going on.  It's "Another One of Those" discussions to add to the pile.  Gotcha, bud image

    I wasn`t trying to hide what i`m thinking... its pretty clear written there... unsure why you think you uncovered some dark secret. 

    I know most people come and say every MMO will beat WOW and all that... truth is NONE did, all went F2P or shut down. So the odds are... you know... ESO will do the same... unrelated to how good the game is.

    I`m buying ESO anyway and even after SWTOR went F2P i went with a sub for it but i`m sure that ESO will eventually go F2P because most MMO`s make more money that way. As long as they are not pay2win(SWTOR isn`t) i`m ok with that as it usually means more players...

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    I doubt it would go F2P even if the subs are not holding, more likely to go B2P with cash shop, then F2P at some point in future if the B2P is not working. I hope it stays sub based game for the time I'm playing it anyway.
  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

     

    I wasn`t trying to hide what i`m thinking... its pretty clear written there... unsure why you think you uncovered some dark secret. 

    I know most people come and say every MMO will beat WOW and all that... truth is NONE did, all went F2P or shut down. So the odds are... you know... ESO will do the same... unrelated to how good the game is.

    I`m buying ESO anyway and even after SWTOR went F2P i went with a sub for it but i`m sure that ESO will eventually go F2P because most MMO`s make more money that way. As long as they are not pay2win(SWTOR isn`t) i`m ok with that as it usually means more players...

    Conventional wisdom is the safe way of thinking.  But then when a precedence is broken, it basically throws all conventional thinking out the window.    For a time, everybody thought nobody could even touch Everquest's numbers until a little game called WoW came along and shattered all conventional wisdom.  Pretty much all of those who predicted nothing could touch Everquest felt like idiots and probably pretended they knew all along.

    I'm not saying that ESO is going to overtake WoW, but I think they have the potential to make a big splash in the MMO world if they can produce a quality game and continually  expand it .  You brought up SWTOR.  Yes, SWTOR had a huge budget and was considered a tent pole type MMO.  But they made some pretty big blunders like not having much endgame to speak of.  That's pretty much the dumbest thing you can do with an MMO since people will eventually reach the top (quickly, in the case of SWTOR) and have nothing else to do.  That's when the subscriptions bleed.  It has nothing to do with the payment model and everything to do with poor execution.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member

    Well I read the article, not Massively's garbage retelling of it.

    Seems like he was being honest.  He's anxious about many things with the game.  Seems sensible to me.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    I'm happy with subscription model because it's a much needed barrier to keep away at least some of trolls, sociopaths and other pests. Also sub can mean more quality content on more regular basis. 2 cinema tickets cost more than 13 eur sub.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....

    That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.

    Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW?  If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.

    MMO`s have a lot more players than that. There are F2P games that dwarf WOW... not saying they make more money, but they sure have more players.

    What i said is pretty much what some EA suit said about why SWTOR went F2P - because most people did not want to pay 15$/month for a game.

    WOW had a freak success but it has not been replicated since..... 

    World of Tanks has 75m players... they had 1.1 million concurrent players in january.... and is a F2P game. There are more like it... overall the F2P side of the industry is bigger than the sub-only side of the  industry.

    I still like sub games and wish ESO would stick with a sub... but its unlikely.

    those f2p games that dwarf wow, have a whole different investment plan... they where mostly developed by a small team in just a few months (LoL, DoTa)  and they consist out of just a few minor detail maps...

     

    There is no MMO comming close to WoW... in numbers. MMO´s cost over 100 million to develop these days... thats huge, and keep costing lots of money after release, as most of the development team will keep developing new content

     

    And WoW proofs  that if a game delivers the quallity, people will pay to play..  GW2 prooved that despite being quite succesfull at initial sale, the game kept loosing money despite being free to play.  If the SUB model doesnt work anymore this might mean the end of AAA MMO´s

     

    ESO might be the game convincing  the console crowd of the Sub model...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • MisterToeMisterToe Vancouver, WAPosts: 2Member

    My two cents.

    First off, we have to stop comparing games to WoW, they have done very well & that's a pretty high bar for any new title to hope for.

    Where I believe the difference will be for ESO is that, unlike WoW, the elder scrolls is an RPG franchise. They have spent years building an audience of millions who love their games & look forward to every new title. WoW was an RTS that went the route of MMORPG & was extremely successful. What WoW has contributed to the gaming world was to expose a lot of people to MMOs who normally might not have played an MMO or RPG. They also have had a solid 9+ years of success with a subscription model. I think this will only work in ESOs favor.

    I believe that lots of people, myself included, have waited years for a game with the Elder Scrolls pedigree to make an MMO. I wrote to Bethesda in '97 about that very thing. What I also believe is that Bethesda contributed a lot of hard core RPG fans to the WoW universe which helped in their success. Until ESO there hasn't been another MMORPG to hit the market with this franchises credibility.

    WoW is it's own animal, love it or hate it, it's not going anywhere. I know that there is a viable, paying customer base for ESO as well. Even if they never reach 12,000,000 subs; 5,000,000 x $15 a month is nothing to sneeze at either. At the very least they'll be getting $15 a month from me.

  • hg2012hg2012 CardiffPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Wiha
    I'm happy with subscription model because it's a much needed barrier to keep away at least some of trolls, sociopaths and other pests. Also sub can mean more quality content on more regular basis. 2 cinema tickets cost more than 13 eur sub.

    There are plenty of trolls and sociopaths in subscription only games... ever played Eve Online?

  • jenseajensea Vancouver, BCPosts: 47Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Telondariel

    I think you need to re-read Justin's spin article from Massively vs what Pete Hines from Bethesda actually said.

     

    For reiteration:  spin vs reality.

     

    "We felt like the subscription model fit best what we wanted to do, not because we want you to pay per month to play the game, but because we want to provide real and meaningful content support on a regular basis."

     

    Massively is just creating another article to get more hits on their site.  Your post is perpetuating that drama of the ongoing subscription vs F2P nonsense. 

     

     

    I'm really disappointed with how Massively has allowed this shift to inaccurate and distorted "reporting".  I'm seeing too much of this sort of stuff lately. I used to go there daily. Think it's time to just delete them from my bookmarks. What happened to ethics?

     

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jensea
    Originally posted by Telondariel

    I think you need to re-read Justin's spin article from Massively vs what Pete Hines from Bethesda actually said.

     

    For reiteration:  spin vs reality.

     

    "We felt like the subscription model fit best what we wanted to do, not because we want you to pay per month to play the game, but because we want to provide real and meaningful content support on a regular basis."

     

    Massively is just creating another article to get more hits on their site.  Your post is perpetuating that drama of the ongoing subscription vs F2P nonsense. 

     

     

    I'm really disappointed with how Massively has allowed this shift to inaccurate and distorted "reporting".  I'm seeing too much of this sort of stuff lately. I used to go there daily. Think it's time to just delete them from my bookmarks. What happened to ethics?

     

    Competition happened.

    Everyone and their dog has a "YouTube channel" these days, and the average gamer would rather watch a quick video than READ some long-ass boring text (with big words) on a webpage. A webpage that nowadays often contains a link to a YouTube video anyways.

     

    So the "traditional" game sites are fighting for their lives. They need to boost their clicks, referrals and page views. If they don't, they won't get included in the big game "reveals", interviews and beta key giveaways. Controversy is always a good way of attracting eyeballs...

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

     Controversy is always a good way of attracting eyeballs...

    And burning bridges with developers in the process it seems.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hg2012
    Originally posted by Wiha
    I'm happy with subscription model because it's a much needed barrier to keep away at least some of trolls, sociopaths and other pests. Also sub can mean more quality content on more regular basis. 2 cinema tickets cost more than 13 eur sub.

    There are plenty of trolls and sociopaths in subscription only games... ever played Eve Online?

    Played a bit but didn't like it. It was like an Excel spread sheet with chat. I agree that there are freaks in every MMO but at least sub keeps some of them away. In recent MMOs I had to turn general chat off just because it was full of complete shite and trolling.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hg2012
    Originally posted by Wiha
    I'm happy with subscription model because it's a much needed barrier to keep away at least some of trolls, sociopaths and other pests. Also sub can mean more quality content on more regular basis. 2 cinema tickets cost more than 13 eur sub.

    There are plenty of trolls and sociopaths in subscription only games... ever played Eve Online?

    Well that is the ultimate breeding place for sociopathic evil beings that dream of world domination  or just of a career as a  sadistic killer

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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