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Throw out the intro narrative and just put me in the damn game!

sludgebeardsludgebeard Tampa, FLPosts: 532Member Uncommon

Im so sick of seeing these MMO's where you have to go through 10 fetch quests, and kill a bunch of pointless mobs just to get into the core game world. Watching the Angry Joe review of Wildstar where he spends the first 20 minutes of the game picking up books and talking to floating cambots, I just thought "enoughs enough", these are pointless narrative building quests that only slow down he intro to a hopeless crawl.

 

Just do it like WoW did, have a 15sec intro cinematic that also sprawls through the opener zone, and then bam! Release the character into the opener zone and let them travel openly to anywhere the player likes. 

 

Does anyone else find these modern MMO starter zones to be boring and shallow?

 

 

 

 

«134

Comments

  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILPosts: 381Member Uncommon
    This may not be a bad idea. Simply ask whether the player has played MMORPGs before and if so you can skip it. I think TERA did this? Trying to remember, it has been a while. I can't imagine it would be hard to implement. 
  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    You seem to have a different idea of what WoW does than I do.  I remember the first thing I had to do was kill 10 wolves. And the levels pretty much prohibit you from going anywhere you want.
  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    edit: The intro you are talking about is an explanation to everything. Im guessing you can skip that... but then when you want to use said items... you are going to figure it out on your own or dig through lore/codex. Im sure its simple to figure out.

    If you are talking about mindless quests, then I think they need to approach a more exclusive design to meet player demands for mmos and to avoid the grindy aspect of lvling.

     

    The problem is the implementation. And when you give a dev a carte blanche to try to deliver on your expectations without really saying what you want... then there could be dissapointment.

    However, for a game to avoid grind, I believe it needs several things;

    1. End game that is challenging - dynamic as well that levels are different for raids

    2. PvP is big, and also there are scenarios of conquest that reset the server, possibly for a pvp server conquest exclusive ported from regular server.

    3. Player created content

    4. Mini games - card games, among other mechanics which become included in quests as well. Crafting is important.

    5. Integration - similar to point 4, but bringing new features to have a pvp and pve inclusion. For example mounted combat for pvp and in pve.

    6. Training dummies deisgned specifically for figuring out rotations since the early lvls are skipped.

     

    Goes without saying combat, and animations are very important... but also goes with certain expectations. What are the expectations of the player? What are average pcs capable of handling. In eso pvp sounds great but it seems animations took a beating to deliver that.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    I really see no point in starter zones anymore.  I assume most players try to get the hell out of them as fast as possible so it seems like wasted resources to me.

    An opening cinematic should be more than enough to set the stage.  Plop me in the world and let me figure it out.  

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    It's not just me huh? Devs you are destroying your games with this no sense.
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by djazzy
    You seem to have a different idea of what WoW does than I do.  I remember the first thing I had to do was kill 10 wolves. And the levels pretty much prohibit you from going anywhere you want.

    To be fair, that can describe just about the whole game.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    @djjazzy

    WoW intro used to consist of a home area pan with some racial background. You could go anywhere from there. Nothing at all stopping you. It lasted a grand total of 1 min.

    By far the best intro I ever went through.
  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    I say this as someone who has been gaming for 25 years - are some of you so ego-centric that you don't understand that tutorial areas are designed and meant for people who don't have as much experience as you?

    As for WoW letting you "go where ever you wanted". Yes, technically you could. But you couldn't kill mobs once you exceeded your level range and you couldn't pick up quests until you were of appropriate level. So yes, you could just get going, but you couldn't realistically progress.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Yes I don't know why, but they try to shoot us into something that blocks our own imagination and creativity, which is very stupid.
  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    Everquest really felt like the game you were introduced and left to your own devices . There weren't unless you looked very hard and actually made the appropriate responses any quests even. You just wandered about got killed a lot by orcs or goblins and by guards even who were supposed to protect you when you type hail and forgot the /. Killing an annoying insect turned you kill on sight elsewhere.


    Running to Kelethin from Felwithe was an adventure and to Kaladim a real dangerous trip. I think those days will never come back. New players who have never played an MMO need tutorials unlike those of us who played Everquest when it launched.

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  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    I think kindergarten is no longer needed, I mean who needs to learn how to share or their colors or basic counting? I don't know anyone that can't do that already. Just get rid of kindergarten and let us move straight to first grade.

     

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    25 years ago people didn't get intros and we have been playing and getting ever more experienced since. My daughter could happily play games on pc's and phones form h age of 5. 'starting zones' comes from people who do t play games or understand gaming.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    @djjazzy

    WoW intro used to consist of a home area pan with some racial background. You could go anywhere from there. Nothing at all stopping you. It lasted a grand total of 1 min.

    By far the best intro I ever went through.

    right, I remember that. But the OP made it sound like you just jumped into WoW like a sandbox and could go anywhere

    I do agree that any tutorial should be skipable though

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sludgebeard

    Im so sick of seeing these MMO's where you have to go through 10 fetch quests, and kill a bunch of pointless mobs just to get into the core game world. Watching the Angry Joe review of Wildstar where he spends the first 20 minutes of the game picking up books and talking to floating cambots, I just thought "enoughs enough", these are pointless narrative building quests that only slow down he intro to a hopeless crawl.

    Just do it like WoW did, have a 15sec intro cinematic that also sprawls through the opener zone, and then bam! Release the character into the opener zone and let them travel openly to anywhere the player likes. 

    Does anyone else find these modern MMO starter zones to be boring and shallow?

    This is a lesson LOTRO and several other MMO developers learned about five years ago. It seems like each studio develops their game in a vacuum sometimes. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    Well the industry isn't exactly doing very well so you might actually want to rethink your case.

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    Well the industry isn't exactly doing very well so you might actually want to rethink your case.

    And you might want to rethink crying about 10 minutes of a game that lasts for months.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member

    Beside cutting out on the intro (another vote here for how wow/war did things), starter areas should not be cut from the game like wow did with worgen/goblin areas .Less cutscenes too - they destroy any feeling of immersion, a story can also be told by having npcs interacting with your character in game world and not making a movie from it, when you don't have control over your character.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by sludgebeard
    Im so sick of seeing these MMO's where you have to go through 10 fetch quests, and kill a bunch of pointless mobs just to get into the core game world. Watching the Angry Joe review of Wildstar where he spends the first 20 minutes of the game picking up books and talking to floating cambots, I just thought "enoughs enough", these are pointless narrative building quests that only slow down he intro to a hopeless crawl. Just do it like WoW did, have a 15sec intro cinematic that also sprawls through the opener zone, and then bam! Release the character into the opener zone and let them travel openly to anywhere the player likes.  Does anyone else find these modern MMO starter zones to be boring and shallow?    

    I hear ya man!

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    Well the industry isn't exactly doing very well so you might actually want to rethink your case.

    And you might want to rethink crying about 10 minutes of a game that lasts for months. Be tough for ten minutes of your life.

    Come on try to act a little bit mature here, no need to get all personal.

    Let's settle it down peacefully. You're the selfless visionary, the prophet of MMOs and I'm the simple consumer who seeks fun. We're both right in our own way. OK?

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    Well the industry isn't exactly doing very well so you might actually want to rethink your case.

    And you might want to rethink crying about 10 minutes of a game that lasts for months.

    Come on try to act a little bit mature here, no need to get all personal.

    Let's settle it down peacefully. You're the selfless visionary, the prophet of MMOs and I'm the simple consumer who seeks fun. We're both right in our own way. OK?

    Act mature? You mean like saying people that work hard to provide you with something you love should give up the extra money new players generate just to save you 10 minutes of a game intro?

     

    The Angry Joe video the OP references was literally done with the part he was complaining about in 10 minutes, including all the times he stopped to complain about it.

     

    You're so mature you can't put up with 10 minutes of a game so the makers have a chance to get new players to support their effort? I can't agree with that impatient mentality.

     

    Jeez, some games even let you skip those unbearable 10 minutes.

     

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by Velocinox

    My point being; there are new players coming along all the time. You assume everyone is a skilled MMO player, but the most important customer to an MMO is the player that is trying MMOs for the first time. And they are joining the genre everyday. If the devs turn those people off, they don't get a second chance.

     

    New people don't need that either. People who agreed with OP had an excellent first experienced without all that crap.

    Why would you assume new people need that today?

    You're on an MMO site referencing long term MMO players saying they fondly remember their first encounter with MMOs and you're comparing that to people who have no idea what is going on? That's is both anecdotal and extremely source-biased.

     

    One of the biggest complaints that players that tried EQ and disliked it was that they had no idea what was going on. They tried to play and something terrible happened, and then they quit. Regardless of what you think of these people; stupid, cry babies, weak, or whatever derogatory term you apply to them to prop up your own ego, I can tell you their money and continued support are deeply respected by the MMO industry.

     

    Try to see this from a broader perspective than your own experience. You are people that played game X (let's say EQ) and what happened afterwards attracted your attention. Things went right, or only wrong enough to keep your attention until things did go right, but not bad enough to turn you off completely. So you stayed in the game genre and went on to years of fun which lead to this moment where you are lamenting the need for new user experiences and tutorials. What about the person that logged into EQ and for whatever reason things went so terrible or unfun that they decided MMOs were not their type of game. Are they here to post to the thread ans say, 'hey, if there had been a tute in EQ I would have stuck with it and the audience for MMOs would one player bigger." No. they stopped playing. They aren't here to give their take on tutorials, they are off playing Titanfall or Civ5. Not giving MMOs a second chance... THAT is why MMOs have beginning areas so that the people that need the money to keep the lights on (and the servers humming) don't miss the chance to get that kind of customer again.

     

    To say that MMOs don't need tutorials and starting areas, is both short sighted and shows a lack of insight in just what an MMO team have to think about to attract as many paying customers as possible.

    You're making way to many assumptions.

    Now you assume that I care about all the people who didn't feel connected with the game. You assume that I care about the broader view. The reason I play is not to please one part of the community. My goal is to connect with people who enjoy the same. To me the exploration and a little bit effort to find your way is an essential part of the game. And I think that's a point the OP was making as well.

    You can call that selfish. But yeah, recreation is quite selfish in a way.

     

    Fortunately for the future of the industry, the makers of these game do care about these people. Of course, that's why they are the professionals.

    Well the industry isn't exactly doing very well so you might actually want to rethink your case.

    And you might want to rethink crying about 10 minutes of a game that lasts for months. Be tough for ten minutes of your life.

    Come on try to act a little bit mature here, no need to get all personal.

    Let's settle it down peacefully. You're the selfless visionary, the prophet of MMOs and I'm the simple consumer who seeks fun. We're both right in our own way. OK?

    Act mature? You mean like saying people that work hard to provide you with something you love should give up the extra money new players generate just to save you 10 minutes of a game intro?

     

    The Angry Joe video the OP references was literally done with the part he was complaining about in 10 minutes, including all the times he stopped to complain about it.

     

    You're so mature you can't put up with 10 minutes of a game so the makers have a chance to get new players to support their effort? I can't agree with that impatient mentality.

     

    Jeez, some games even let you skip those unbearable 10 minutes.

     

     

     

    I don't care about Angry Joe. I care about game features and game quality.

    I care about what I like in a game. And that happens to be more freedom and less cinematic gameplay. It's a subjective matter. Some people like it, some people don't. I tend to have more fun with people who do. 

    You insist on it that I have to like it the way you like it. Seriously, what's wrong with you :-)

    You're not that much of a selfless visionary anymore :(

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