Originally posted by eindinbloch Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house. I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.
So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.
In a case of consolidated AH and supply deficiency for some product, pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.
It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
In a case of consolidated AH and supply deficiency for some product, pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.
It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?
Supply deficiency creates incentive for crafters, that is how people make money - they supply the demand.
/facepalm
You are so wrong!
It only works this way for free market.
This is why we have Antimonopoly Laws. Monopolies prevent market from being free, monopolies control the market.
Monopolies voluntary regulate prices. Monopolies make concurrence ( which is the basis of free market) impossible.
Even if some crafters will come up with some lower prices, those who hold the price will simply buy it for that lower price and resell it for set up from the beginning higher price.
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
This is a point I brought up earlier in this thread. Reputation in MMO's is a fickle thing, and as you said, if a guild is found to be "gouging" prices, it is my hope people will treat that guild's keep with impunity compared to a guild that offers reasonable prices and maintains their guild shop with reasonable prices and good quality items. It's my hope that the good reputable guilds will have their keeps defended more often to keep them going.
Whether that actually will happen remains to be seen, but it is very reasonable to expect eventually...
Originally posted by eindinbloch Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house. I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.
So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.
In a case of consolidated AH and supply deficiency for some product, pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.
It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!" Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family"
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!" Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family"
Originally posted by kkarrabbass This is why we have Antimonopoly Laws. Monopolies prevent market from being free, monopolies control the market.
It is the other way round.
"Anti-monopoly" law = regulation. Regulation = no free market.
Buying from producer at low price and resell at higher price at mall is somewhat "bad"? It is the merchant that takes the risk the goods won't sell as well as the expenses tied to distribution and retail.
u basically hit all nails on the head and seems really odd the developer did not see any of the problems.
One ok IF argument is correct and they are trying for interaction,they are eliminating what the other person said that "celebrity" or that known player in your guild because having to hop around 5 different guilds has more negatives than positives.
I for one do not like players hopping guild to guild,i want to see that loyalty otherwise why have guilds at all,why not just lump everyone into one giant guild if people feel the need for MORE.I want to get to know my guild mates,i don't want them only popping in for selfish reasons ,then they are gone to the next guild.
Hope you're not planning on joining the fighters or mage's guild (or, if it ever comes, the thieve's guild.)
Or is it different when it's an NPC guild?
I think what happened here is somebody in Zeni over thought it and is NOT very good at coming up with good game design,in this case one designed to make for a great economy and pvp and interaction.
1 Whomever came up with this forgets SOME or MANY don't want any part of pvp.
2 Some or MANY don't want a big guild,they want that family oriented guild or one that is mall where people actually become friends and know each other.
Possible solution:
Join one main guild; that's your family/friends guild. With the other 4 slots, join trader guilds and think of them as being like the NPC guilds. Only with people instead of NPCs. Pay as little or as much attention to them as you feel like.
3 I want a viable system to sell my wares,designing a game that goes a bit back in time "Fantasy" setting with swords and daggers and shield/s,hard to believe characters would be using a chat system to sell their stuff.yes the guild idea would be realistic but NOT limited to JUST the guild.
Chat system in itself breaks the fantasy setting, whether you're using it for hawking wares or just shooting the breeze in town. So that's kind of a moot point until they come up with a better system for in-game communication.
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
This is a point I brought up earlier in this thread. Reputation in MMO's is a fickle thing, and as you said, if a guild is found to be "gouging" prices, it is my hope people will treat that guild's keep with impunity compared to a guild that offers reasonable prices and maintains their guild shop with reasonable prices and good quality items. It's my hope that the good reputable guilds will have their keeps defended more often to keep them going.
Whether that actually will happen remains to be seen, but it is very reasonable to expect eventually...
The danger is not that imminent or even realistic, because I believe there will be eventually many independent sellers, who will devote their game play entirely to crafting, and who will provide effective concurrence to guild shops.
Originally posted by eindinbloch Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house. I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.
So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.
In a case of consolidated AH and supply deficiency for some product, pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.
It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!" Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family"
The danger is not that imminent or even realistic, because I believe there will be eventually many independent sellers, who will devote their game play entirely to crafting, and who will provide effective concurrence to guild shops.
Although i agree there will be independent sellers, the only way they will be able to sell their wares will be in chat through "WTS xxxx" yells. For one thing, they will have to travel from zone to zone to cover a wide enough audience to be able to be viable. Secondly, they are only going to hit the population currently online.
Guild stores on the other hand are more passive, and items are available to the ENTIRE alliance at ANY TIME...as long as the keep is held.
I have a feeling that eventually we will see a "Trade Chat" for all the WTS posts...and hopefully the community criticism for people spamming WTS posts will be enough to force them into that chat channel.
Again, a lot of things are pure conjecture until the game is released and stabilizes, but I am hoping the "reputation" aspect of guilds becomes a more viable means of trade. Over longer periods of time, I can foresee "trading/merchant" guilds holding some of the more secure (closest to home) keeps, while regular player guilds live on the cusp and borders of enemy territory. Remains to be seen what actually happens, but I am hoping reputation will once again mean something in an MMO in the way I mentioned...
So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?
Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.
I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i dont join a guild.
It's an MMO, it's based around "Massive Multiplayer Online" gamers. If you don't want to join a guild then don't but it's much better this way for the rest of us who don't want to be spammed by gold farmers who have inflated the servers economy just to sell us back the gold we've spent buying their overpriced merchandise off the AH. It sounds to me like you're just being difficult, thinking of any reason to complain about the trade system. How hard is it to join a guild? Is that something that's going to ruin your gameplay experience? Are you going to be totally inconvenienced by the fact that you have to spend two minutes in chat to ask for an invite to a guild? If so then maybe this just isn't the place for you. I for one am excited for the games release and look forward to the trade system, one of the large number of things in this game that is promoting guildees working together instead of a solo system. It's an online game for a reason, because people should be working together to make everything as great as it is and make everything work out properly. If you want an experience you can look forward to doing solo then stick to the offline games in my opinion.
The beauty of an MMO's is it's flexibility. Successful ones have content for everyone, groups and solo players. If I don't want to join a guild I won't stick to offline games, I'll find an MMO that supports solo players more. There are lots of them out there.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The danger is not that imminent or even realistic, because I believe there will be eventually many independent sellers, who will devote their game play entirely to crafting, and who will provide effective concurrence to guild shops.
Although i agree there will be independent sellers, the only way they will be able to sell their wares will be in chat through "WTS xxxx" yells. For one thing, they will have to travel from zone to zone to cover a wide enough audience to be able to be viable. Secondly, they are only going to hit the population currently online.
Guild stores on the other hand are more passive, and items are available to the ENTIRE alliance at ANY TIME...as long as the keep is held.
I have a feeling that eventually we will see a "Trade Chat" for all the WTS posts...and hopefully the community criticism for people spamming WTS posts will be enough to force them into that chat channel.
Again, a lot of things are pure conjecture until the game is released and stabilizes, but I am hoping the "reputation" aspect of guilds becomes a more viable means of trade. Over longer periods of time, I can foresee "trading/merchant" guilds holding some of the more secure (closest to home) keeps, while regular player guilds live on the cusp and borders of enemy territory. Remains to be seen what actually happens, but I am hoping reputation will once again mean something in an MMO in the way I mentioned...
How about specialized (sell/buy) forum threads? I also heard somewhere about sellers kiosks (not sure if it is true though).
And crafters guilds. They probably will not be able to have a shop in a keep, being not a good fighters. But I can see some advantages.
So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?
Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.
I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i dont join a guild.
It's an MMO, it's based around "Massive Multiplayer Online" gamers. If you don't want to join a guild then don't but it's much better this way for the rest of us who don't want to be spammed by gold farmers who have inflated the servers economy just to sell us back the gold we've spent buying their overpriced merchandise off the AH. It sounds to me like you're just being difficult, thinking of any reason to complain about the trade system. How hard is it to join a guild? Is that something that's going to ruin your gameplay experience? Are you going to be totally inconvenienced by the fact that you have to spend two minutes in chat to ask for an invite to a guild? If so then maybe this just isn't the place for you. I for one am excited for the games release and look forward to the trade system, one of the large number of things in this game that is promoting guildees working together instead of a solo system. It's an online game for a reason, because people should be working together to make everything as great as it is and make everything work out properly. If you want an experience you can look forward to doing solo then stick to the offline games in my opinion.
The beauty of an MMO's is it's flexibility. Successful ones have content for everyone, groups and solo players. If I don't want to join a guild I won't stick to offline games, I'll find an MMO that supports solo players more. There are lots of them out there.
So maybe it is time for some MMO's to come out that make you depend on each other more again. In the real world you can't solo everything either. And i know a common defence is "but this is a game, its suppose to be fun". The problem is that a lot of people have different views on fun. And let's be honest here, the first hour MMORPGers have been pretty screwed since WoW came out. Where WoW atleast provided raids that required 40 people and wasn't to easy in the first two years, its not also aimed at solo player/i want to take it easy player.
The mainstream gamers have moved to every genre out there. And games tend to be made specially for them. If you want a MMORPG again where you feel like you need to join a guild and find that thrill you had 15 years ago in MMORPG's then goodluck, there is no one out there to help you with that. They closed down SWG, so the sandbox gamers don't get their thrill, for hardcore raiding i wouldn't know what game you should do cause i'm no raider but i hear from friends all the time that it became to easy in the current games. Same for Roleplayers, most MMORPG's don't even let you sit on chairs anymore or have any real interests for your play style. And yeah many people find RPers weird, but RP in MMO's used to be rather normal before WoW as well. In SWG you had RPers and none RPers play on the same server and the RPers contributed a lot to the immersion of being in a Star Wars Galaxy. They are also a huge part of MMO's, perhaps not as big as the Raiders and PvPers but most RPers also raid and PvP so they get counted double or tripple even where not all raiders/pvpers do RP.
I do miss the early day's of WoW where everyone played with everyone. Where guilds weren't competing with each other but helping each other out and RP together. Where you knew who where the great crafters on the servers, where the world felt alive cause people had to travel to the dungeon instead of having a teleport button. And yeah people will say "they made the game more enjoyable with such buttons, saves you traveling". But you just don't get it then. MMORPG's used to be worlds that where created for you. Worlds to explore, worlds to live in, worlds to meet strangers by accident and became great friends outside of the game. And now people, who most likely didn't play MMORPG's before WoW, say that people like me life in the past. That MMORPG's are not about that. MMORPG's have becoming nothing but hubs. I don't even get it, why would you want to play a MMORPG when you don't fancy exploring, don't fancy playing with others, want things rather easy so you can do it alone cause god forbid you actually need 2 or even 5 people to defeat some elite on the world map.
Why? And why keep saying that people like me should go for another game. There is no other game for us, its all based on your kind of players. We just don't get the experience anymore of being in a real virtual world. RPG's where about developing your character, go on adventures with them, meeting new people (in singleplayer games it's meeting npc's in mmo's its meeting other players). If you want to be a merchant in a game, then why o why do you want it to be singleplayer friendly? Heck the lack of a AH is rather refreshing cause AH's tend to screw up the economy in games. Sure the first month it goes okay, but after that people start to ask the most insane prices for low level gear cause many people have reached the highest level and are able to earn money quickly, but new players and low level players do not. So they can't afford the good gear anymore till they reached a level they can supply their low level alt but that defeats the point of being able to buy gear for your level.
Now i'm not fan of this ESO. I do admit seeing more now that the NDA has been lifted does peek my interest but i will wait till its released and hear how the players in general like the game. However from what i recently heard i think they do try to find a balance to catter to the singleplayer and have things for the multiplayer. The sieges and such sound great, that you can join multiple guilds is great too, that way you can join a RP guild and a guild that focuses on PvP without having to choose one over the other. Some say it will cost you the loyaltee. I say it brings back cooperation between guilds again. In the first two years of WoW we had many RP guilds on my server who joined a community with each other for their raid players. THe people could stay in their RP guild but also belonged to a another group. I don't see why it would not work in ESO like that either. If you want people to be loyal to you, then make sure your guild is a great place to be in. Cause that is another problem we have a lot these days. Dramaqueens and power hungry idiots. Where officers decide what happens to a guild instead of seeing that a great guild can only be great cause everyone in it makes it great. And you will always keep having guild hopers. It doesn't matter if they can only join one guild or several. Just make good rules for your own guild, make it a fun place and people will stay. Heck it could work in your benefit having players being in other guilds as well. Who know, maybe you find something out you and that other guild have in commen and can have a great cooperation between two guilds. Instead of like we have it with other MMO's where people only play with one guild and forget there is a whole community outside of their own.
Personally I think the choices in craft specializing and no auction house are a BRILLIANT move to create and control a player generated economy and to keep crafting viable and healthy for a community of crafters.
Originally posted by rygard49It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
Sad but true. In SWG the best crafters were legends.
Originally posted by Acidon
Originally posted by iseldiera
Originally posted by rygard49
It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
This rang so true it made me sad in the feels. Deep in the feels.
I left WoW a long time ago...guess that's the difference. To see a couple ppl actually say they miss WoW crafting? Just odd to me.
Still...generation? Get over yourselves....I have been here the whole time. WoW has never been know as the crafting game mecca....sorry
WTH are you talking about? Who was talking about WoW? I played WoW during it's initial Beta Testing phase, and then went back to EQ or DAoC (whichever it was at that time).. I didn't do the WoW thing.
I think you cut the blue wire instead of the green one or something.
see people are saying this will bring ack the good old days of poople selling there wares face to face and creting a social enviroment i see it diffrent i see it going back to.
{bob} selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] stop spamming char
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[nick] LTB crytals STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] come on stop spamming char already
[nick LTB crystal STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
ok i think yall get the point i dont have found memerys of social style trade and bartering all i ahve memeries of in auctioon houseless game are spam spam spam spammity spam spam
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick Well we keep "assuming" that there will be an official trade chat on PC anyway. As a cross platform game the GUI is held back by its simplest play device, console, which intrinsically doesn't add a keyboard for play. If ZOS and Bethesda's claims that console considerations come first for them (thanks to sales) in the current age one has to wonder how interpersonal trade in voice chat is going to work on the larger scale. Most people will find voice a necessity for coordination and play anyway. Are personal trades such a potential annoyance that the crafters may as well accept only being able to sell their goods through their own guild? If so, with the focus on encouraging and rewarding larger guilds, will there be room in a guild for everyone to share a piece of the market pie? You and joe bob may be friends but if he is undercutting your sales to get his mount and more and you can't as a result then are you going to be his bud for long? Its the kinds of questions that will define a crafters value in game, nice perk system or not.
Very good point. I'm interested to see how the chat system works out for console. It seems to be the determining factor to whether or not I commit to the PS4 version.
I can picture everything else working fine on ps4 after playing the beta but chat system is just a mystery at the moment.
I wonder if they will use Proxy voice chat? I can see that getting chaotic in populated area's though. Hopefully at least party voip is enabled.
Else everything will have to bent on using a keyboard, which would kinda be awkward swapping between the two devices but I could live with it..
Seems to me that they're putting some social interaction back into the trading process. Either you join a guild, or you hawk your wares over general, make deals in whispers, meet other characters face to face.
It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
Player owned stores do that a lot better then people who spam the chat. Sure, store owners would still advertise about sales and items in stock but things tends to get far less annoying. You also don't need to wait for that legendary crafter to be online to purchase your thing.
I have a feeling that ESO will need to improve the trade features one way or another, but then again, no MMO is perfect from launch.
It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
No you aren't....this generation knows nothing of Orgrimmar. Only those who hang on to old values and that way of life do. Stop acting like WoW still has influence...
no generation has been more influenced by WoW than the present one.
In this day and age everyone has WoW in his background.
Only some moved on and went on to play more challenging games, others stayed on the WOW level and everything more challenging then that game is a mountain too high to climb.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
see people are saying this will bring ack the good old days of poople selling there wares face to face and creting a social enviroment i see it diffrent i see it going back to.
{bob} selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] stop spamming char
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[nick] LTB crytals STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] come on stop spamming char already
[nick LTB crystal STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
ok i think yall get the point i dont have found memerys of social style trade and bartering all i ahve memeries of in auctioon houseless game are spam spam spam spammity spam spam
Well if at some point they put up player run shops with seller NPCs in them... you will go back to the good old days of SWG where the AH was not the be all end all and knowing where the best shops were was a learning process.
Independant sellers will most likely all setup in area's around various major towns bank and sell from there. Rather like in UO .. you go to them.
The game should restrict the WTS / WTB and get crafters to use Say mostly, so you travel to town, you goto bank, you'll hear the various Say's from Crafters and find what your after, hopefully you'll mark that Crafters name/location for when you require items they do .. browse in future to compare against guild shops, way up differences/prices
If Independant Crafters are good enough then word of mouth should help too, I do think a sort of notice board or innkeep rumour system might help.
Notice board they pay to put a simple advert flyer up, a few lines
Innkeeper, pay the guy off (price varies) and if anyone asks, he'll point them in your direction.
Comments
Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall, that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.
You are so wrong!
It only works this way for free market.
This is why we have Antimonopoly Laws. Monopolies prevent market from being free, monopolies control the market.
Monopolies voluntary regulate prices. Monopolies make concurrence ( which is the basis of free market) impossible.
Even if some crafters will come up with some lower prices, those who hold the price will simply buy it for that lower price and resell it for set up from the beginning higher price.
This is a point I brought up earlier in this thread. Reputation in MMO's is a fickle thing, and as you said, if a guild is found to be "gouging" prices, it is my hope people will treat that guild's keep with impunity compared to a guild that offers reasonable prices and maintains their guild shop with reasonable prices and good quality items. It's my hope that the good reputable guilds will have their keeps defended more often to keep them going.
Whether that actually will happen remains to be seen, but it is very reasonable to expect eventually...
Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!" Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family"
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
LMAO!
It is the other way round.
"Anti-monopoly" law = regulation.
Regulation = no free market.
Buying from producer at low price and resell at higher price at mall is somewhat "bad"? It is the merchant that takes the risk the goods won't sell as well as the expenses tied to distribution and retail.
Hope you're not planning on joining the fighters or mage's guild (or, if it ever comes, the thieve's guild.)
Or is it different when it's an NPC guild?
Possible solution:
Join one main guild; that's your family/friends guild. With the other 4 slots, join trader guilds and think of them as being like the NPC guilds. Only with people instead of NPCs. Pay as little or as much attention to them as you feel like.
Chat system in itself breaks the fantasy setting, whether you're using it for hawking wares or just shooting the breeze in town. So that's kind of a moot point until they come up with a better system for in-game communication.
The danger is not that imminent or even realistic, because I believe there will be eventually many independent sellers, who will devote their game play entirely to crafting, and who will provide effective concurrence to guild shops.
You mean "Mafia"?
Although i agree there will be independent sellers, the only way they will be able to sell their wares will be in chat through "WTS xxxx" yells. For one thing, they will have to travel from zone to zone to cover a wide enough audience to be able to be viable. Secondly, they are only going to hit the population currently online.
Guild stores on the other hand are more passive, and items are available to the ENTIRE alliance at ANY TIME...as long as the keep is held.
I have a feeling that eventually we will see a "Trade Chat" for all the WTS posts...and hopefully the community criticism for people spamming WTS posts will be enough to force them into that chat channel.
Again, a lot of things are pure conjecture until the game is released and stabilizes, but I am hoping the "reputation" aspect of guilds becomes a more viable means of trade. Over longer periods of time, I can foresee "trading/merchant" guilds holding some of the more secure (closest to home) keeps, while regular player guilds live on the cusp and borders of enemy territory. Remains to be seen what actually happens, but I am hoping reputation will once again mean something in an MMO in the way I mentioned...
The beauty of an MMO's is it's flexibility. Successful ones have content for everyone, groups and solo players. If I don't want to join a guild I won't stick to offline games, I'll find an MMO that supports solo players more. There are lots of them out there.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
How about specialized (sell/buy) forum threads? I also heard somewhere about sellers kiosks (not sure if it is true though).
And crafters guilds. They probably will not be able to have a shop in a keep, being not a good fighters. But I can see some advantages.
So maybe it is time for some MMO's to come out that make you depend on each other more again. In the real world you can't solo everything either. And i know a common defence is "but this is a game, its suppose to be fun". The problem is that a lot of people have different views on fun. And let's be honest here, the first hour MMORPGers have been pretty screwed since WoW came out. Where WoW atleast provided raids that required 40 people and wasn't to easy in the first two years, its not also aimed at solo player/i want to take it easy player.
The mainstream gamers have moved to every genre out there. And games tend to be made specially for them. If you want a MMORPG again where you feel like you need to join a guild and find that thrill you had 15 years ago in MMORPG's then goodluck, there is no one out there to help you with that. They closed down SWG, so the sandbox gamers don't get their thrill, for hardcore raiding i wouldn't know what game you should do cause i'm no raider but i hear from friends all the time that it became to easy in the current games. Same for Roleplayers, most MMORPG's don't even let you sit on chairs anymore or have any real interests for your play style. And yeah many people find RPers weird, but RP in MMO's used to be rather normal before WoW as well. In SWG you had RPers and none RPers play on the same server and the RPers contributed a lot to the immersion of being in a Star Wars Galaxy. They are also a huge part of MMO's, perhaps not as big as the Raiders and PvPers but most RPers also raid and PvP so they get counted double or tripple even where not all raiders/pvpers do RP.
I do miss the early day's of WoW where everyone played with everyone. Where guilds weren't competing with each other but helping each other out and RP together. Where you knew who where the great crafters on the servers, where the world felt alive cause people had to travel to the dungeon instead of having a teleport button. And yeah people will say "they made the game more enjoyable with such buttons, saves you traveling". But you just don't get it then. MMORPG's used to be worlds that where created for you. Worlds to explore, worlds to live in, worlds to meet strangers by accident and became great friends outside of the game. And now people, who most likely didn't play MMORPG's before WoW, say that people like me life in the past. That MMORPG's are not about that. MMORPG's have becoming nothing but hubs. I don't even get it, why would you want to play a MMORPG when you don't fancy exploring, don't fancy playing with others, want things rather easy so you can do it alone cause god forbid you actually need 2 or even 5 people to defeat some elite on the world map.
Why? And why keep saying that people like me should go for another game. There is no other game for us, its all based on your kind of players. We just don't get the experience anymore of being in a real virtual world. RPG's where about developing your character, go on adventures with them, meeting new people (in singleplayer games it's meeting npc's in mmo's its meeting other players). If you want to be a merchant in a game, then why o why do you want it to be singleplayer friendly? Heck the lack of a AH is rather refreshing cause AH's tend to screw up the economy in games. Sure the first month it goes okay, but after that people start to ask the most insane prices for low level gear cause many people have reached the highest level and are able to earn money quickly, but new players and low level players do not. So they can't afford the good gear anymore till they reached a level they can supply their low level alt but that defeats the point of being able to buy gear for your level.
Now i'm not fan of this ESO. I do admit seeing more now that the NDA has been lifted does peek my interest but i will wait till its released and hear how the players in general like the game. However from what i recently heard i think they do try to find a balance to catter to the singleplayer and have things for the multiplayer. The sieges and such sound great, that you can join multiple guilds is great too, that way you can join a RP guild and a guild that focuses on PvP without having to choose one over the other. Some say it will cost you the loyaltee. I say it brings back cooperation between guilds again. In the first two years of WoW we had many RP guilds on my server who joined a community with each other for their raid players. THe people could stay in their RP guild but also belonged to a another group. I don't see why it would not work in ESO like that either. If you want people to be loyal to you, then make sure your guild is a great place to be in. Cause that is another problem we have a lot these days. Dramaqueens and power hungry idiots. Where officers decide what happens to a guild instead of seeing that a great guild can only be great cause everyone in it makes it great. And you will always keep having guild hopers. It doesn't matter if they can only join one guild or several. Just make good rules for your own guild, make it a fun place and people will stay. Heck it could work in your benefit having players being in other guilds as well. Who know, maybe you find something out you and that other guild have in commen and can have a great cooperation between two guilds. Instead of like we have it with other MMO's where people only play with one guild and forget there is a whole community outside of their own.
Stupid, isn't it? This is just one of many reasons why I wont be playing this game.
WTH are you talking about? Who was talking about WoW? I played WoW during it's initial Beta Testing phase, and then went back to EQ or DAoC (whichever it was at that time).. I didn't do the WoW thing.
I think you cut the blue wire instead of the green one or something.
see people are saying this will bring ack the good old days of poople selling there wares face to face and creting a social enviroment i see it diffrent i see it going back to.
{bob} selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] stop spamming char
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[nick] LTB crytals STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[dan] come on stop spamming char already
[nick LTB crystal STFO
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
[bob] selling 5 furs 20 gold each
ok i think yall get the point i dont have found memerys of social style trade and bartering all i ahve memeries of in auctioon houseless game are spam spam spam spammity spam spam
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Very good point. I'm interested to see how the chat system works out for console. It seems to be the determining factor to whether or not I commit to the PS4 version.
I can picture everything else working fine on ps4 after playing the beta but chat system is just a mystery at the moment.
I wonder if they will use Proxy voice chat? I can see that getting chaotic in populated area's though. Hopefully at least party voip is enabled.
Else everything will have to bent on using a keyboard, which would kinda be awkward swapping between the two devices but I could live with it..
Player owned stores do that a lot better then people who spam the chat. Sure, store owners would still advertise about sales and items in stock but things tends to get far less annoying. You also don't need to wait for that legendary crafter to be online to purchase your thing.
I have a feeling that ESO will need to improve the trade features one way or another, but then again, no MMO is perfect from launch.
Only some moved on and went on to play more challenging games, others stayed on the WOW level and everything more challenging then that game is a mountain too high to climb.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Well if at some point they put up player run shops with seller NPCs in them... you will go back to the good old days of SWG where the AH was not the be all end all and knowing where the best shops were was a learning process.
Independant sellers will most likely all setup in area's around various major towns bank and sell from there. Rather like in UO .. you go to them.
The game should restrict the WTS / WTB and get crafters to use Say mostly, so you travel to town, you goto bank, you'll hear the various Say's from Crafters and find what your after, hopefully you'll mark that Crafters name/location for when you require items they do .. browse in future to compare against guild shops, way up differences/prices
If Independant Crafters are good enough then word of mouth should help too, I do think a sort of notice board or innkeep rumour system might help.
Notice board they pay to put a simple advert flyer up, a few lines
Innkeeper, pay the guy off (price varies) and if anyone asks, he'll point them in your direction.