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Can someone explain this lack of auction house system to me?

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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by azzamasinCrafting centric MMO's are really boring.  Call me silly but I like to see shiny loot on a new kill.  It harkens back to my very first MMO, Asheron's Call.  I'd much prefer a loot based economy where crafting is about enhancing and upgrading world drops.  I hate not having RNG in loot distribution but I also hate having gear assigned to specific mobs.  It's why I detest raiding so much.  What I want is the Diablo/Asheron's Call style of loot system but for now I'll have to settle for this.

    Crafting may provide depth, incentives and consequences, entire new layers of options.

    I am not saying it is any better than loot based economy, it is different approach to game design.


    In fact though, I do not think player driven economy is worthy the effort and even when I look at the biggest player driven economy - EVE Online, I must acknowledge CCP came to same conclusion as all their expansions in past years promote "shiny loot" over complex crafting.

  • DrDwarfDrDwarf TeesidePosts: 475Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by alexhpy98721

    Just wait until they add one... they will add one eventually as most people playing 1-2 hours a day won`t spend 2 hours just to find a crafter who may not even have what they want... not to mention that you will simply not know the item with the stat combination you want even exists without some kind of list.

     

    I could go on... but anyway if this bothers you just wait. They will add stuff later on and i`m sure an Auction House will be among them(unless they can`t for some technical reason)

    That line I highlighted reminded me of the often loooong convo's I had with some customers during my days as Master Chef in SWG.

    Explaining the many food and drink buffs and how much the stats could be manipulated depending on raw material stats, etc. The fun times tailoring a particular product to be as close as possible to what the customer wanted. Suggesting alternatives...

    I even kept text templates that I used to paste into emails as FAQ's for first-timers looking for boutique products.

    Keeping my own mailing list of top customers who would receive a mail notification whenever I managed to produce some really good batch of certain items they often bought.

    I never spammed anyone, all my mailing list names were there by request. They wanted to be on that list, because it was worth it to them.

    It is much easier to rob people of their mats in a matter of seconds and tell them to go to their guild crafter next time.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
    Why does it sound like if i dont join a guild i wont be able to efficiently sell my wares if i decide to craft?

    Maybe they are keeping true to ES games like Skyrim which didn't have an AH.

    image

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon

    I don't know.  It sounds like it will foster social activity and interaction. It seems like you will have conglomerates and trade wars.  It sounds like the PvP has people excited enough that taking keeps and all of that will have extra benefit.

     

    Global AH's are nice and easy but you don't have to socialize at all.  Post and wait. That is all.  Maybe this will allow some new ways to sell things to people.

    Don't knock something until you get to try it.  And, don't kock something because it means you have to put a little more work in than the usual pressing of a button....

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Missoula, MTPosts: 1,103Member

    this game I will be playing solo because of the RPG aspect of the game and do not want to feel rushed during my gametime while leveling which always comes with joining a guild.

     

    We're going to see a old school way of selling things again.   I kind a look forward to that, its a fun interactive part of trading that has been missing for years, even though its an inconvenient way to sell things.    I'll probably be trading my skins mostly for ores so I can advance my blacksmithing.   That should be fun!

  • G4NK3DG4NK3D Canyon Country, CAPosts: 67Member Common
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?

     

    Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.

     

    I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i  dont join a guild. 

    It's an MMO, it's based around "Massive Multiplayer Online" gamers.  If you don't want to join a guild then don't but it's much better this way for the rest of us who don't want to be spammed by gold farmers who have inflated the servers economy just to sell us back the gold we've spent buying their overpriced merchandise off the AH.  It sounds to me like you're just being difficult, thinking of any reason to complain about the trade system.  How hard is it to join a guild?  Is that something that's going to ruin your gameplay experience?  Are you going to be totally inconvenienced by the fact that you have to spend two minutes in chat to ask for an invite to a guild? If so then maybe this just isn't the place for you.  I for one am excited for the games release and look forward to the trade system, one of the large number of things in this game that is promoting guildees working together instead of a solo system.  It's an online game for a reason, because people should be working together to make everything as great as it is and make everything work out properly.  If you want an experience you can look forward to doing solo then stick to the offline games in my opinion.

  • TalemireTalemire Clearwater, FLPosts: 756Member
    I support no AH for two reasons: 1) Because through one lens it encourages such interactions. 2) Through the other lens because it leaves room for some offline player vendoring system to be implemented (player marketplaces).

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    MMORPGs are great to look forward to after a hard day of work, but heaven is the ultimate reward for those who live Christ-like.

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  • OriousOrious O''Fallon, ILPosts: 548Member

    Auction houses are great at consolidating prices as well as creating large scale inflation. They are also great at spreading out gear. However, they also shrink the world and help to remove the sense of wonder when trying to find gear to use.

    In ESO Crafters are going to be very important BECAUSE of the lack of AH as well as the reasons shown in the newest video.

    A guild crafter will probably end up crafting for the guild and get  the best gains out of that.

    A solo crafter will be able to craft gear with everyone in mind, but the best gains will probably be with the solo player (because the solo player will be guildless).

    I read somewhere that there may be kiosks though, so being offline and selling is just like throwing something on a local auction house. It also keeps the social hubs populated and alive.

    I for one am looking forward to finally playing a AAA game that doesn't have an AH.

    image

  • isanderSWGisanderSWG Dumfries, VAPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Orious

    Auction houses are great at consolidating prices as well as creating large scale inflation. They are also great at spreading out gear. However, they also shrink the world and help to remove the sense of wonder when trying to find gear to use.

    In ESO Crafters are going to be very important BECAUSE of the lack of AH as well as the reasons shown in the newest video.

    A guild crafter will probably end up crafting for the guild and get  the best gains out of that.

    A solo crafter will be able to craft gear with everyone in mind, but the best gains will probably be with the solo player (because the solo player will be guildless).

    I read somewhere that there may be kiosks though, so being offline and selling is just like throwing something on a local auction house. It also keeps the social hubs populated and alive.

    I for one am looking forward to finally playing a AAA game that doesn't have an AH.

    First paragraph is true enough.  It won't be easy to compare what the highs and lows of a particular item is over the whole market since there won't be a way to search.  If the large guilds overinflate the price of something, it's not like smaller guilds or solo crafters can spread the knowledge well enough to compete, so there's going to be lots of profit to be made.

    Finding/crafting gear is probably also a good time sink that you have to do in order to do PVP/PVE.  Who wants to go out in substandard gear?  So it should take more time to find gear than an AH system.

    Someone talked about special places to craft things.  If those are in PVP zones, there might be an incentive to blockade those workshops to restrict a certain item for a particular guild alliance.

  • isanderSWGisanderSWG Dumfries, VAPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by BeansnBread

    Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

     

    You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go. :)

    Agreed.  Hopefully some good forum trading sites pop up.

    mmorpg.com is probably going to put up a forum for trading.  I've seen a few ESO trade pages in other places, so we'll have plenty of choices.

  • isanderSWGisanderSWG Dumfries, VAPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Phry

    ...

    (edited)

    Perhaps the lack of a convenient AH will kill the game ?

     

    If the majority of players actually enjoy the game play and don't struggle to keep their gear current, I can't imagine there being a mass exodus due to the AH being a somewhat clunky process.

     

    I intend to join at least 12 guilds (4 per alt) purely for the purpose of trading, and I'm sure there'll be no shortage of "trade shell" guilds. If I cannot adequately gear my characters using that mechanic to supplement my drops and quest rewards, I'll be crying on the forums too.

    Not sure if the game is going to scale difficulty for combat differently in the first patch after it goes live, but I recall a different combat thread where one tester was belittling another tester for being a few levels lower than the quest.  I'm guessing that might indicate that tactics won't ever be enough to bridge being too poorly equipped/leveled.

  • eindinblocheindinbloch Dallas, TXPosts: 60Member
    Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house.  I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.
  • birkenbirken Fort Covinton, NYPosts: 122Member
    You are lazy.  You are the reason game now do not have a community. Ooo no you have to  sell your wares in chat channel instead of click and wait for cash.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eindinbloch
    Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house.  I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.

    So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon

    Perhaps one of the unmentioned corollaries of Guild shops and only being able to have one in a Keep etc. Is that if a Guild does not have one, any/all crafters will desert the Guild for another Guild that does. While it might be possible to be a member of several guilds at a time, as there can only be 300 members in a guild, its unlikely that gaining access to the 'coveted' Guilds that do have a keep, will be that easy. Players will probably be just as interested in taking control of a 'friendly' keep as an 'enemy' one.

    Gaining control of a friendly keep from a same faction alliance guild, easiest way is probably for the guild members to have enemy 'alts' to be used to attack a keep and flipping it out of the owners control, so that it can be 're-flipped' in favour of the main's Guild. There is nothing to be gained by anyone in defending a friendly keep that is not owned by one of their own guilds.

    Its more than possible that Guilds will not be able to gain control of a keep for any real length of time, and unless they can do that then being able to dominate the markets is unlikely, as keeps are liable to be flipped on a regular basis anyway, and anyone with an interest in gaining control of a particular keep isn't going to be bothered about letting it fall to the enemy first. image

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    I'm fine with it.  I've played several games with no auction house.  Usually those games were ruled by crafters.  They were designed so that people were constantly having to seek out crafters.  I think ESO will have similar aspects to crafting.  Also, remember that you don't have to use guilds like typical MMO's.  You can use them as more of a contact list.  Pick a few PvP guilds, a PvE guild, a crafter guild and maybe just some friends.  You don't have to take part in their events.  Unless they are a guild that wants members who do that.  

     

    Ultimately, if you can't handle it, then scream your head off in trade chat.  If you refuse to do that, play another game.  It's a lot easier for me, personally, to accept this system.  I've played games before auction houses existed.  So I do kind of understand the frustration from people who have never had that experience.  It may seem like a step back.  Though, ESO is a MMORPG, highlighting RPG, more than most MMO's.  So you've got to expect a little 'old school' in this game.  

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    This is in my opinion another strike against the game for me personally. I can understand why they do it and i am glad that some people seems to like it. Somehow i think this will be one of those 150-200k players max once the churn have done it´s job due to the retro mindset of the devs.

    Not that 150-200k is bad by any stretch of the imagination, but i am not sure it will be enough.

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Palm Springs, CAPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by eindinbloch
    Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house.  I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.

    So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.

    In a case of consolidated AH and  supply deficiency for some product,   pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.

    It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by kkarrabbassIn a case of consolidated AH and  supply deficiency for some product,   pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?

    Supply deficiency creates incentive for crafters, that is how people make money - they supply the demand.

    /facepalm

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by eindinbloch
    Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house.  I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.

    So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.

    In a case of consolidated AH and  supply deficiency for some product,   pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.

    It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?

    Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall,  that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.image

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Palm Springs, CAPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

     

    In a case of consolidated AH and  supply deficiency for some product,   pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.

    It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?


     

    Supply deficiency creates incentive for crafters, that is how people make money - they supply the demand.

    /facepalm

     

    You are so wrong!

    It  only works this way for free market.

    This is why we have Antimonopoly Laws. Monopolies prevent market from being free, monopolies control the market.

    Monopolies voluntary regulate prices. Monopolies make concurrence ( which is the basis of free market) impossible.

    Even if some crafters will come up with some lower prices, those who hold the price will simply buy it for that lower price and resell it for set up from the beginning higher price.

  • MithoronetteMithoronette Atlanta, GAPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by Phry

    Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall,  that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.image

     

    This is a point I brought up earlier in this thread.  Reputation in MMO's is a fickle thing, and as you said, if a guild is found to be "gouging" prices, it is my hope people will treat that guild's keep with impunity compared to a guild that offers reasonable prices and maintains their guild shop with reasonable prices and good quality items.  It's my hope that the good reputable guilds will have their keeps defended more often to keep them going.

    Whether that actually will happen remains to be seen, but it is very reasonable to expect eventually...

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,608Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by eindinbloch
    Personally, I am very excited about the prospects of not having an auction house.  I think it was a bad idea to begin with and completely ruined economies in games.

    So how does a centralized auction or broker system ruin a game economy? How does a guild controlled trade system and those shut out from that system promote a good economy? What exactly makes a good economy? It would probably help the discussion since those assertions keep get thrown out there so freely.

    In a case of consolidated AH and  supply deficiency for some product,   pseudo monopoly might start to influence market.

    It means that sellers not necessarily formally conjunct, may have distinct opportunity to provide the same price policy and control market for that product. We know, monopoly is not good for economy, right?

    Any Guild attempting to 'gouge' the market though, might find they lose their guild shop. How many players would be willing to defend a keep or alternatively, actively help in that keeps downfall,  that tried to manipulate the market financially, by default Guilds are going to have to keep their prices 'competitive' or else they will find themselves without a medium to make any sales in the first place, might be a good way of 'keeping them honest' in the long run.image

    Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!"  Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family" image

  • MithoronetteMithoronette Atlanta, GAPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Lol I like that idea... "Take this keep...please!"  Hmm...sort of gives me an idea for a guild that just sells merchant protection... I think I'll call it "The Family" image

    LMAO!

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

    This is why we have Antimonopoly Laws. Monopolies prevent market from being free, monopolies control the market.

    It is the other way round.

    "Anti-monopoly" law = regulation.
    Regulation = no free market.


    Buying from producer at low price and resell at higher price at mall is somewhat "bad"? It is the merchant that takes the risk the goods won't sell as well as the expenses tied to distribution and retail.

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