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MOBA 3x more popular than MMOs?

nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

http://gamesided.com/2014/02/01/research-firm-pc-market-reach-25-billion-2014/

"What I found intriguing about the interview was just how much time players are spending in MOBA titles now, compared to MMO games. Over the last 10 financial quarters (June 2011 – December 2013), the MOBA community has been spending at least 600 million more hours playing per quarter than the MMO community. Even more alarming, the gap during the last year has widened dramatically, with MOBA players spending almost 4 times as many hours playing than MMO’s in Q4 2013."

"It speaks a lot to just how the online PC market is headed, but also just to what companies are trying to capitalize on. Blizzard Entertainment are looking to jump in on the market with a MOBA called Heroes of the Storm with, at the very least, a beta this year. It is odd to see the kingmakers of the MMORPG following the trends instead of creating them. Additionally, it does not forebode well for upcoming PC and console MMORPG Elder Scrolls Online, which has been in development for years and with hundreds of millions of dollars in costs."

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Comments

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,952Member Uncommon
    2 completely different type's of games that I'm sure will coexist just fine along with Chess, Monopoly and Mario.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Cheap, quick and casual, not surprising the masses flock to it, sort of like cheap beer, fast food and pop music.

    Step aside folks, there is big money to be made here.

    Don't worry, we'll still be here when all the tourists have moved on.

    No, we won't leave the light on.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens upon dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat, talent discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE or lvl adv in moba's, STOP them or use better tactics!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic, and with risk it's quite intense (UO and AC1 were amazing)... but PVP instances in MMO's have a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO. Hell, all you need to do to win 99% of your matches in your typical MMO instanced PVP is join as a guild.... or grind better gear.

    The competitiveness and skill ceiling between MMO's and MOBA's just aren't comparable. Look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

     

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    I wouldn't compare MOBA's to instanced PvP. I guess it technically is PvP but at the same time it has nothing similar to an MMORPG. It is a quick gear / grind / win or loss then you do it all again. In an MMO it wouldn't work as well.

  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 769Member Uncommon

    I'm personally glad they are around as it is weeding the casuals out of MMORPG's, hence the reason I believe we are starting to see some more old school elements finally starting to make a return, we are getting back slowly, but the experiments the genre has cashed in on I believe has possibly hurt it more than helped it, many MMORPG players won't come back no matter what as the genre has a tendency to let people down. Though if done 100% right I would say they could get alot back, first and foremost they should make a statement with MMORPG's and get a seal of approval that says "we will not dumb this game down....we promise".

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE adv in moba's, STOP them!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic... but PVP instances in MMO's has a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO.

    Just look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

     

    I second that. I am a pvp player. I played RTS, FPS, played UO, DAoC and Shadowbane all for the pvp experience. Nowadays i play MOBAs, precisly DoTA2. MMOs just aren't as good anymore.. especially pvp wise. WoW ruined a lot. Maybe some future title will change that again.. but until that i play DayZ, DoTA2, Minecraft and other games and stay away from boring, geargrind centric MMOs. MMOs nowadays are just about to get as fast as possible to max level, to get the next shiney item and not a lot else left. And my time is really to valuable to bother with that boring shit.

    And to copying MOBAs will help MMOs not more, than copying WoW did the last ten years(they can learn from their combat maybe, but there are other good examples, too).. they have to do again in what they really can shine.. and that is a Massive Multiplayer Experience(DAoC RvR, UO world/dungeon pvp and pve crawling with a lot people and not some instanced shit, community forging and socilizing -> UO, SWG player towns and stuff like that, which are only really possible in a seamless massive world)

    Just wait until the Dungeon/Raid Instance Single/simple Multiplayer games appear to deliver that experience.. you really don't need a MMO for that bullshit.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Just wait until the Dungeon/Raid Instance Single/simple Multiplayer games appear to deliver that experience.. you really don't need a MMO for that bullshit.

    ARPGs are already the dungeon instance experience without the MMOs .. and they are popular. D3 sold 15M copies, and many are playing PoE, and TL2.

    Personally i like this kind of "focused" games more than MMOs.

  • EzhaeEzhae LondonPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Just wait until the Dungeon/Raid Instance Single/simple Multiplayer games appear to deliver that experience.. you really don't need a MMO for that bullshit.

    Funny how that bit was done years ago by Guild Wars and it was dismissed by so many back then for not being "true" MMO hence not worth the attention. 

    But yes. MOBAs offer free to start, bite sized, competitive gaming that is availible at any time of day without much of prior arrangements. Currently on PCs, I'd say it's how FPSes used to be in their golden days...before all that "modern military shooter" nonsense. I can play a quick ARAM match in 20-30 minutes tops. Perfect to relax after day at work. In a MMO, even after they got simplified, you still need 2-3 hours to get any noticeable progress and anything more complex requires more preparation beforehand. Not to mention MOBAs appeal to gamers from wide variety of genres. 

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ezhae
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Just wait until the Dungeon/Raid Instance Single/simple Multiplayer games appear to deliver that experience.. you really don't need a MMO for that bullshit.

    Funny how that bit was done years ago by Guild Wars and it was dismissed by so many back then for not being "true" MMO hence not worth the attention. 

    But yes. MOBAs offer free to start, bite sized, competitive gaming that is availible at any time of day without much of prior arrangements. Currently on PCs, I'd say it's how FPSes used to be in their golden days...before all that "modern military shooter" nonsense. I can play a quick ARAM match in 20-30 minutes tops. Perfect to relax after day at work. In a MMO, even after they got simplified, you still need 2-3 hours to get any noticeable progress and anything more complex requires more preparation beforehand. Not to mention MOBAs appeal to gamers from wide variety of genres. 

    None of them are "true" MMOs. And GW1 was maybe dismissed as a MMO, but nevertheless a lot played it and it was a success, maybe even more than GW2. But it was not really the raid/dungeon instance run experience. And i personally wouldn't like such a game.. i am not a fan of that stuff.. and i will not miss it if they would dissapear from the MMOs completely.. give me a large public dungeon, where you can get lost, where pvp and pve is at home, something like the early UO dungeons or Darkness Falls.. and maybe even bigger, more complex, with riddles like Dungeon Master and what not, and i don't care a lot about the big ass Boss Mob.. especially if he is scripted and predictable.

    But yeap.. for the fast group pvp experience MOBAs are ok.. better than any themepark MMO battleground i know of. But if you ask me, they are more inbetween Group RTS games and group MMO pvp. As i said MMOs should focus on what they can shine.. the massive experience, and the multi genre experience.. because basicly they can be creative games, social games, combat games, economic games, political games, strategic games all in one, with cooperation and rivality(pvp). But if they focus on things, which would be better in simple multiplayer games as they do at the moment they will not get any better. Things like personal story line(better suited for Single RPGs or Action Adventures), like dungeon instances, like Battlegrounds instances, like Arena instances and all that other stuff... just get rid off them, and focus more other aspects which are only in MMOs possible. But thats me.. a lot of people enjoyed WoW,  the question is only...are those simple multiplayer minigames the drawing point from WoW and other themeparks, or is it because WoW delivered the first polished MMO experience for the masses.. even if it was as limited as WoW. But i start to rant.. and it is not worth it.

  • KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 898Member Uncommon

    Firstly, I have nothing against the MOBA genre. Every type of game out there that's released is just an extra option and benefit for us the players. I wish MOBA's were my thing, but they aren't just because I've overplayed this type of game design. Co-op 2v2/3v3 in RTS Star Craft for example.

    I've had extreme amount of fun for years with repetitive, fast paced, strategic, action packed game...but in the long run I'm winning nothing but respect from some individuals, which is great but MMO's have the potential to do all of this and far more. Which is why I continue to vote with my wallet and invest/spend on MMORPG's only that I find enjoyable...(sadly something I haven't seen in a long time though, since UO/SWG).

    WOW had its moments too, the glory of being a great, skilled raider who's guild depends on to clear content. Although that was no longer the case with xrealm addons and no real, meaningful reward in the long run. I still kept trying to force myself to enjoy WOW and raid for some RNG mounts....

    At the end I found raiding too time consuming as in (wait for players to show up, canceled raids, the drama, etc) anyways, back on topic...I'm glad MOBA's are popular, but they will becoming boring eventually to those who want more than just winning matches and gaining some respect from some individuals.

    Virtual, immersive, sandbox worlds where the player can make his own name, fame and fortune are the future for this genre, not finite, themeparks on rails and single player type of games that allow you to experience em with others in an instanced settings. That's not how I envisioned MMORPG's and I'll continue to be patient and vote for my wallet...

    Again this is just my opinion after being involved with gaming for 22 years...I know the joy I had when I unlocked the force, when I became a light jedi knight and when both rebel and empire bounties were chasing me in groups across planets.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    Just about every genre of game that is quick casual with lots of action have a larger appeal than mmo's do. More people play online poker than play mmos. 

    MMOs are a big time commitment even for casual players. I read somewhere the avg time spent on phone games is less than 15 minutes a session.  The genres are really apples and oranges when it comes to why games are popular.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Cheap, quick and casual, not surprising the masses flock to it, sort of like cheap beer, fast food and pop music.

    Step aside folks, there is big money to be made here.

    Don't worry, we'll still be here when all the tourists have moved on.

    No, we won't leave the light on.

    This.  Imagine being a sandbox/virtual world fan in a genre that isn't even that popular...

  • GhernGhern Shingle Springs, CAPosts: 134Member Uncommon

    Different strokes for different folks.

    I personally cannot stand moba's. Zero interest in them.

    Good thing there are many types of games for many types of gamers.

    Play what you like, avoid what you don't.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Cheap, quick and casual, not surprising the masses flock to it, sort of like cheap beer, fast food and pop music.

    Step aside folks, there is big money to be made here.

    Don't worry, we'll still be here when all the tourists have moved on.

    No, we won't leave the light on.

    +1

     

    lololol

     

    LoL has it's place, like Minecraft, for bored players.

  • LetsinodLetsinod Ramsey, MNPosts: 334Member Common
    I used to play nothing but MMO's from EQ1 and everything inbetween.  I started playing Dota2 and actually deleted all MMO's from my computer.  There is just nothing good out right now for one.  Second, the fast paced action in MOBA's cannot be denied.  I don't need to be "uber" and play a million hours to be good.  Also, no match is the same.  On a side note for some MMO players thinking about trying one, look up Smite.  Its more a MMO view than a MOBA view.  
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    There is quite a difference between a game that has instanced competitive PvP as its core gameplay, versus an MMO with it tacked on to appease the PvP crowd.

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member

    I am currently playing LoL and enjoying it.

    My dream a MOBA  that incorporate deep political/diplomatic/social elements, a mix between MMO and MOBA.

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens upon dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat, talent discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE or lvl adv in moba's, STOP them or use better tactics!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic, and with risk it's quite intense (UO and AC1 were amazing)... but PVP instances in MMO's have a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO. Hell, all you need to do to win 99% of your matches in your typical MMO instanced PVP is join as a guild.... or grind better gear.

    The competitiveness and skill ceiling between MMO's and MOBA's just aren't comparable. Look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

    You haven't played GW1, have you?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens upon dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat, talent discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE or lvl adv in moba's, STOP them or use better tactics!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic, and with risk it's quite intense (UO and AC1 were amazing)... but PVP instances in MMO's have a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO. Hell, all you need to do to win 99% of your matches in your typical MMO instanced PVP is join as a guild.... or grind better gear.

    The competitiveness and skill ceiling between MMO's and MOBA's just aren't comparable. Look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

    You haven't played GW1, have you?

    Actually yes I did... and although it was a vast improvement over most instanced MMO PVP (which isn't saying much), it still had no where near the complexity, depth, or skill ceiling as something like DOTA 2.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens upon dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat, talent discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE or lvl adv in moba's, STOP them or use better tactics!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic, and with risk it's quite intense (UO and AC1 were amazing)... but PVP instances in MMO's have a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO. Hell, all you need to do to win 99% of your matches in your typical MMO instanced PVP is join as a guild.... or grind better gear.

    The competitiveness and skill ceiling between MMO's and MOBA's just aren't comparable. Look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

    You haven't played GW1, have you?

    Actually yes I did... and although it was a vast improvement over most instanced MMO PVP (which isn't saying much), it still had no where near the complexity, depth, or skill ceiling as something like DOTA 2.

    These MOBA people need to play Darkfall.  They will stop their talk about "skill" as they will be owned and humbled.  I have no idea why MOBA's are seen as some elite twitch PvP skill.  It's basically a strategy game that isn't that fast paced with a lame isometric view.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Can everyone who likes MMOs like WoW start playing these games instead? Thank you.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Of course it is, moba doesn't require group interaction, there is no content for hardcore mini-maxing, only 4 skills, so no need to think a lot, a person with less than nothing IQ can mash key and mouse so they can easily play moba. so obviously  moba is more popular than mmo. it is simple common sense.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    ...and some posters dare say competitive (instanced) PvP doesn't have longevity.

    It often doesn't, because every match is the same... with the same class, against the same classes. And it's often just a grind to get better gear, so you have an advantage over everyone else.

    Whereas MOBA's you can select from dozens upon dozens of hero's all with unique abilities and playstyles, against an always changing combination of enemies.

    Plus there's no gear, level, stat, talent discrepencies you have to worry about... so that person who spent months grinding out PVE raids isn't going to one shot you here (and if someone is trying to get a PVE or lvl adv in moba's, STOP them or use better tactics!)

    Then there's the much more fluid, deep and action orientated combat of MOBA's... meaning player skill plays a much, much, much, much greater part. I've put around 500 hours in DOTA 2 and i've still got a LOT to learn!

    I do love world PVP in MMO's as it's so dynamic, and with risk it's quite intense (UO and AC1 were amazing)... but PVP instances in MMO's have a long way to come before it holds anything to the like of the best MOBA's IMO. Hell, all you need to do to win 99% of your matches in your typical MMO instanced PVP is join as a guild.... or grind better gear.

    The competitiveness and skill ceiling between MMO's and MOBA's just aren't comparable. Look at all the tournament's and sponsorships in DOTA, take the international for example, almost $3 million in prize pool with the winning team collecting $1.5 million alone.

    You haven't played GW1, have you?

    Actually yes I did... and although it was a vast improvement over most instanced MMO PVP (which isn't saying much), it still had no where near the complexity, depth, or skill ceiling as something like DOTA 2.

    These MOBA people need to play Darkfall.  They will stop their talk about "skill" as they will be owned and humbled.  I have no idea why MOBA's are seen as some elite twitch PvP skill.  It's basically a strategy game that isn't that fast paced with a lame isometric view.

    Been there done that... seriously, AC1 >>> Darkfall, and it still has nothing on MOBA's depth and complexity.

    And where's the million dollar prizes for the top Darkfall players? Oh right... lol

    And you realise DF is world PVP right, not instanced? But hey, you obviously weren't after an intelligent discussion so... continue!

    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Of course it is, moba doesn't require group interaction, there is no content for hardcore mini-maxing, only 4 skills, so no need to think a lot, a person with less than nothing IQ can mash key and mouse so they can easily play moba. so obviously  moba is more popular than mmo. it is simple common sense.

    Haha, go ahead and try it... see how long you last.

  • JRRNeiklotJRRNeiklot Decatur, ALPosts: 108Member
    Considering I don't even know what a MOBA is, I'm gonna say MMO's are more popular.
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