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It's really the zerg tactic so bad?

andersalesandersales JoinvillePosts: 5Member

There's a lot of people saying that if a game copy the battle system WvWvW from GuildWars2 (example ESO) will fail as GuildWars2 failed because GuildWars2 is a zerg's party. 

 

First I do not think the GuildWars2 failed, I know being a very successful game. (and I like a lot)

Second I'm no expert in battles but from what I saw in the movies ( lol ) the best strategy in medieval combat is keep the army united, that same way in a game, the fight with zerg is more real and more efficient.

 

Sure they could make something like: You need destruct three seals in the same time at diferent places while others put a gate down if you dont keep the three seals broken you can't destroy the gate. It's a more strategic appeal but that will not make everyone happy the same way.

 

Sorry for my bad english, Google translator is the culprit. But i wanting to give my opinion.

Comments

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    If talentless game devs create a game where zerging is a viable tactic, people will use it.  If it works, why shouldn't they?
  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,869Member Uncommon

    If every time you came to this forum and tried to post, the database ate your post, how many times would you try before you just stopped coming to this forum?

     

    That's what Zerg does to content. People who zerg look for targets for the sake of targets. They don't want your castle. They want to destroy it. They don't want you titan or your officer fit Raven, they want to blow it up. They are looking for victims. Zerg makes anyone not a zergling, a victim. That just gets boring and fast.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    I think the best way to stop zerging is to add tactical positioning as a viable counter.  When your game is button spam kill your going to get zergs if you allow a lot of players to group together.  
  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member

    Zerg tactic isn't that bad... if you want to win.

    Zerg tactic is bad... if you want to have fun.

    PVP zones always turn it zerg battles, especially if there's no friendly fire or collision detection and there's objectives like forts.

    World PVP ftw.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by osc8r

    Zerg tactic isn't that bad... if you want to win.

    Zerg tactic is bad... if you want to have fun.

    PVP zones always turn it zerg battles, especially if there's no friendly fire or collision detection and there's objectives like forts.

    World PVP ftw.

    This is why I have often wanted FF and CD.  Right now, if we can all stand on top of each other fighting someone/something with teammates dropping massive DPS bombs that we are immune to, why not?

  • SoulTrapOnSelfSoulTrapOnSelf Ellicott City, MDPosts: 190Member
    zergs are only good when you are part of the zerg :)
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by osc8r

    Zerg tactic isn't that bad... if you want to win.

    Zerg tactic is bad... if you want to have fun.

    PVP zones always turn it zerg battles, especially if there's no friendly fire or collision detection and there's objectives like forts.

    World PVP ftw.

    This is why I have often wanted FF and CD.  Right now, if we can all stand on top of each other fighting someone/something with teammates dropping massive DPS bombs that we are immune to, why not?

     

    Duck and cover, shield walls, collision detection, movement with momentum, agility and acceleration taken into account and etc.   

     

    Friendly fire would lead to trolling and that's why its largely not the even on FPS.  

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon
    I feel like a lot of the time Zergs will happen if it's possible. Unless there is an even playing field and a queue system to place the same amount on both sides, I can't see how a group of people wouldn't just mow down anything that is smaller than them.
  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by andersales

    There's a lot of people saying that if a game copy the battle system WvWvW from GuildWars2 (example ESO) will fail as GuildWars2 failed because GuildWars2 is a zerg's party. 

     

    First I do not think the GuildWars2 failed, I know being a very successful game. (and I like a lot)

    Second I'm no expert in battles but from what I saw in the movies ( lol ) the best strategy in medieval combat is keep the army united, that same way in a game, the fight with zerg is more real and more efficient.

     

    Sure they could make something like: You need destruct three seals in the same time at diferent places while others put a gate down if you dont keep the three seals broken you can't destroy the gate. It's a more strategic appeal but that will not make everyone happy the same way.

     

    Sorry for my bad english, Google translator is the culprit. But i wanting to give my opinion.

    As I understand it, one of the very few constants in warfare is the need for good supply and the management of that supply (logistics). Another of the very few constants but not as important (especially not in modern warfare) is superiority of numbers. The problem with the zerg in MMORPGs is that superiority of numbers is often the most important thing and the ways to counter the superiority of numbers isn't viable as the need for supply and logistics is either inadequate or non existent.

     

    If however it took an industrial base to supply (If people needed to hold cities to produce food, weapons and armor for troops) than it would be much easier to counter the superiority of numbers using realistic tactics. Such as raiding supply lines and industrial bases or in other words guerrilla warfare. Most games, detrimentally, don't even come close to modelling that. On the plus side, I've been reading a bit about pathfinder online and they seem to be making an effort.

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Sunnyvale, CAPosts: 485Member

    Zerging is overrated. Usually on Blackgate I see a few commanders and few groups - not one giant zerg. They might come together to take out a particular group.. But in general one giant zerg might win all the battles but lose the war because they are too slow to cap enough things.

    Back when I was on Devona's Rest (the worst server) they always had one giant zerg and were last in PvP.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by osc8r

    Zerg tactic isn't that bad... if you want to win.

    Zerg tactic is bad... if you want to have fun.

    PVP zones always turn it zerg battles, especially if there's no friendly fire or collision detection and there's objectives like forts.

    World PVP ftw.

    This is why I have often wanted FF and CD.  Right now, if we can all stand on top of each other fighting someone/something with teammates dropping massive DPS bombs that we are immune to, why not?

     

    Duck and cover, shield walls, collision detection, movement with momentum, agility and acceleration taken into account and etc.   

     

    Friendly fire would lead to trolling and that's why its largely not the even on FPS.  

    In Battlefield FF OFF servers are the default, because of griefing with explosives. Games like PS2 has FF ON, and it's a disaster in the making, zergs+100001 vehicles with HE rounds+griefing.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,619Member Uncommon
    Only problem with the zerg is it's only fun in small doses

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Things that work against a zerg :

    Large war zone .Concentrating your forces reduces your ability to defend a large area

    Need for repair of damaged keeps.Heavy destruction of a keep makes it easy to retake when the zerg moves on

    Small take able objective like mines,lumber mills etc open up small group/non zerg opportunities

    Scouting quests provide solo/non zerg opportunities

    Plentiful siege equipment for siege defense(not dependent on resources) slows down the zerg

    Choke points.....allow a small force to  delay a larger force.Impeneterable geography can cause zerg to have to travel longer distances....making it less efficient

    Lack of resurrection spells---means unless you have a soul gem.....you are out of the zerg upon death

     

    I haven't played in Cyrodiil much(10 levels of pve to get to AvA was almost unbearable for me) but the above should help mitigate the zerg a bit.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    Things that work against a zerg :

    Large war zone .Concentrating your forces reduces your ability to defend a large area

    Need for repair of damaged keeps.Heavy destruction of a keep makes it easy to retake when the zerg moves on

    Small take able objective like mines,lumber mills etc open up small group/non zerg opportunities

    Scouting quests provide solo/non zerg opportunities

    Plentiful siege equipment for siege defense(not dependent on resources) slows down the zerg

    Choke points.....allow a small force to  delay a larger force.Impeneterable geography can cause zerg to have to travel longer distances....making it less efficient

    Lack of resurrection spells---means unless you have a soul gem.....you are out of the zerg upon death

    And...

     

    Destroying bridges/tunnels/passages so the enemy can't just breeze to a point to take it.

     

    Sappers can dig behind enemy lines to flank the enemy in a surprise attack.

     

    Defenders can dig trenches to slow a force so reinforcements can get there to help.

     

    Removing radar like abilities (e.g., fog of war) so zergs can't just know what they're fighting.

     

    Taking a point should never be a faceroll of sitting in 20 vehicles all aiming their weapons at a spawn zone.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    You'd see less zergs if keeps and towers took longer than 60 seconds to capture.

    I recall some fantastic battles early on in GW2 where we defended for hours once the outside gate went down.  Those were an absolute blast but also way too few and far between.

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