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Large Scale PvP: GW2 vs. ESO

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  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by jidakra

    I've watched a stream Q&A from a long-time streamer and I cant safely tell you that zerging, at lesat on the long-time-testserver, was not an issue. I saw a group of a mere 16 lure a zerg into a chokepoint (a tower at one of the keeps) and mow them down as they came up the stairs. The streamer said that there are tons of spots on the map where you can do this and there are more strategies on how to defeat zergs as a small group, if you use terrain to your advantage.

    Defending keeps is absolutely mandatory if you plan on getting anywhere on the map. It is extremely difficult and takes quite some time and effort from your entire alliance to claim all 6 keeps around cyrodiil. If youre not gonna defend your keeps, other factions will just roll right in and claim them back and you will respawn extremely far away.

    Also remember that this is a 3-faction war. You defeat 1 faction and claim there keep, but dont repair and defend it? Chances are the 3rd faction will profit on that and just run into the already broken gate and claim the keep for themselves.

    The way synergies and ultimates work also make a coordinated team exponentially more dangerous than what they otherwise would be. Between that and other mechanics, it's a pretty well designed system for mitigating the Zerg.

    Granted it's a open world RvR game, so the zerg is always a part of things... but it's done a lot of smart things to keep it under control.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Well in massive battles people don't disappear  from your screen like they do in GW2.

    You're realling out of touch with GW2 aren't you? Culling has been removed for ages.

    imageimage
  • BeelzebobbieBeelzebobbie MalmöPosts: 429Member
    Originally posted by jidakra

    I've watched a stream Q&A from a long-time streamer and I cant safely tell you that zerging, at lesat on the long-time-testserver, was not an issue. I saw a group of a mere 16 lure a zerg into a chokepoint (a tower at one of the keeps) and mow them down as they came up the stairs. The streamer said that there are tons of spots on the map where you can do this and there are more strategies on how to defeat zergs as a small group, if you use terrain to your advantage.

    Defending keeps is absolutely mandatory if you plan on getting anywhere on the map. It is extremely difficult and takes quite some time and effort from your entire alliance to claim all 6 keeps around cyrodiil. If youre not gonna defend your keeps, other factions will just roll right in and claim them back and you will respawn extremely far away.

    Also remember that this is a 3-faction war. You defeat 1 faction and claim there keep, but dont repair and defend it? Chances are the 3rd faction will profit on that and just run into the already broken gate and claim the keep for themselves.

    Everything you say here I deal with in GW2 everyday.

  • CouganCougan DoncasterPosts: 394Member
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,548Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.

    Yeah, great way to tell you that you're a nobody unless you're in a big guild, isn't it?

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Well in massive battles people don't disappear  from your screen like they do in GW2.

    You're realling out of touch with GW2 aren't you? Culling has been removed for ages.

    Yes, but the performance is still bad. 

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.

    yes and 90% of the players will visit the keeps just to check the shops blocking the spot for the pvpers

    thats very smart

  • CouganCougan DoncasterPosts: 394Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.

    Yeah, great way to tell you that you're a nobody unless you're in a big guild, isn't it?

    Same sort of thing in real life. You can sell things alone on here but you will have to do a lot of player interaction and advertising.

     

    If you want to be a successful crafter or whatever then you would need a guild to get you these PVP resources anyway

    Reasons to defend territory are always good in my mind.

     

    I'm not a big fan of being spoonfed the global auction house where you can buy anything insatntly myself.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

    I'm calling it here, the Dominion will be the dominant faction because they will be the ones that survive the starting area!

     

    I have a similar "fear".

    I just hope to heavens that ZO will take heed of the reviews and fix the other 2 factions starts, otherwise it might cost them alot of players. I myself have no problem dealing with the 2 crappier starting experiences, because i know what lies beyond.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,548Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.

    Yeah, great way to tell you that you're a nobody unless you're in a big guild, isn't it?

    Same sort of thing in real life. You can sell things alone on here but you will have to do a lot of player interaction and advertising.

     

    If you want to be a successful crafter or whatever then you would need a guild to get you these PVP resources anyway

    Reasons to defend territory are always good in my mind.

     

    I'm not a big fan of being spoonfed the global auction house where you can buy anything insatntly myself.

    Cute, but this isn't real life where you are paid to do stuff... this is a video game you pay for to be entertained.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member

    For those of you concerned about the length of "campaigns" and being on the losing team.

    I'm on DC side and we had a PvP match time set to play for about 3 hours. AD controlled the entire map except maybe a tower owned by EP. DC pretty much had nothing but what you always had, so AD had wiped us out. We managed to group up over that time and take back 3 of our towers (not bad for 3 hours of play). AD, owning so many things, was actually at a disadvantage because EP was also attacking them at the same time. With so many players on the map, you can split up into focus groups. They were busy defending a keep from EP, so we were able to fight for the towers without too much hassle.

    I've played GW2's WvW. It's fun for what it is. But it is no where the in-depth all out war feeling that ESO invokes.

    I suppose it depends on your play-style. But i just wanted people to know that just because their side is on the losing end, it doesn't mean your faction can't come back and rally to take points and Elder Scrolls back from the dominating side.

    That was always the worst thing about GW2. Who would win the matchup was determined the first day of play and after that it was just a painful loss for the other side. It doesn't work like that in ESO. The other Faction can completely dominate and you can come back and take things back if you organize for it.

  • CouganCougan DoncasterPosts: 394Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Cougan
    Noone seems to mention much the guild owned shops in Cyrodill keeps which is pretty much the only type of player shop. A large guild is not going to want to lose all that income coming in and will want to defend that keep a lot more than some generic tower.

    Yeah, great way to tell you that you're a nobody unless you're in a big guild, isn't it?

    Same sort of thing in real life. You can sell things alone on here but you will have to do a lot of player interaction and advertising.

     

    If you want to be a successful crafter or whatever then you would need a guild to get you these PVP resources anyway

    Reasons to defend territory are always good in my mind.

     

    I'm not a big fan of being spoonfed the global auction house where you can buy anything insatntly myself.

    Cute, but this isn't real life where you are paid to do stuff... this is a video game you pay for to be entertained.

    You have to play the game with what is available to yourself. If you want auction houses then leave the feedback, they might cave in with enough people wanting it.

     

    If you dont want to be part of a guild or put the effort in to make it alone then dont play the game, stay with GW2. I was making the real life analogy of effort = reward

     

    I can see the appeal of having your name on crafted equipment and selling it to hundreds or thousands of players across your server myself, and having well established stores that I know are well defended and valuable to the guilds involved.

     

    I rather see the benefits of systems and what they CAN do to make pvp meaningful

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Xssiv

    From what I've seen so far,  GW2's WvW and Cyrodiil seem very similar in concept,  in many ways almost identical.  

    So as a PvP focused player who enjoyed a lot of what GW2's WvW had to offer, what is there about ESO's AvA system that would justify paying a sub for essentially the same PvP experience that I'm currently getting without a sub?

     

    1) The game actually has significant healing / tanking abilities, meaning different strategies are required.

    2) The layout is better, many keeps act as shields along impenetrable mountain passes, meaning if you want to get behind and steal the scroll, you'll need to take the keep.

    3) A reward for being the best player, meaning that players will work hard to try and become the Emperor. Prevents the 'who cares' kind of mentality that you get in GW2.

    4) Interesting build creation, more akin to GW1 than GW2.

     

    There's a lot more that can be said, but do some research or give the game a try next beta weekend. Overall I thought it was better implemented in ESO, with more consideration about risks, rewards and map layout.  Although being nearly 2 years after GW2, you should hope so.  

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