So these professionals should do their job right? Like inform people of their thoughts and impressions of what they could report on. Right?
Did you deliberately missed the entire point that it is not their job?
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You want to tell others how you feel, you make a blog about it, you want to inform about a game, you write a review.
Actually no, it is the reviewers job to inform people of their personal thoughts and impressions.
The non-biased list of features that you are looking for is supplied by the developer and usually put in a blurb on the back of the box or in advertising.
So these professionals should do their job right? Like inform people of their thoughts and impressions of what they could report on. Right?
Did you deliberately missed the entire point that it is not their job?
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You want to tell others how you feel, you make a blog about it, you want to inform about a game, you write a review.
If you actually read the site it said the following on their collections of articles
Today, we present to you our impressions of last weekend's preview event and the beta so far. We've got videos on character creation, thoughts on the starting zones and storytelling, guides to skill progression and racial perks, and an overview of the state of the game from an MMO player who isn't already a nut for the series. Enjoy!
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Originally posted by jpnz Ah! So a review should be reading the points at the 'back of the box'! Wait a min....LOLWUT?!You keep saying the word 'review' but I don't think it means what you think it means.
If you believe that write up without input of personal bias is just making it "points at the back of the box", I won't argue with you.
for me i loved it after i found my first wep in a chest and i understood how the posibilitys of the game could make my char how i wanted it and not forced to take a path i didnt want. I also didnt feel like i had to do any quests once i left the starting area which also made me feel free to do what i wanted.
To me, a review is as useful as the level of insight and objectivity held by the person doing the review.
Let's just say I didn't find many of the ESO reviews/previews very useful.
I didn't find most of the 'useful' either, but I don't think it was their fault.
'NDA' screwed the 'insight'. There's only so much 'insight' one can have when all you have is the starter area.
After the Imp / CE issue and AJ's dislike of this game, I'm skipping launch and will wait.
With what they had available, they had all they needed to provide much more insight and useful feedback.
A lot of them seemed strangely biased, and quite a few seemed to think they were going to play another WoW or GW2 - as if they ignored the possibility that this game is trying something different.
The level of knowledge and objectivity has been very low, and that's saying something considering the overall level of insight displayed in the media.
In my opinion, the primary problem is that these ignorant media people think of these games as WoW-clones - and they seem completely unable to provide a fresh perspective. It takes experience to understand that not all games are alike - and an MMO isn't a thing set in stone.
To me, a review is as useful as the level of insight and objectivity held by the person doing the review.
Let's just say I didn't find many of the ESO reviews/previews very useful.
I didn't find most of the 'useful' either, but I don't think it was their fault.
'NDA' screwed the 'insight'. There's only so much 'insight' one can have when all you have is the starter area.
After the Imp / CE issue and AJ's dislike of this game, I'm skipping launch and will wait.
With what they had available, they had all they needed to provide much more insight and useful feedback.
A lot of them seemed strangely biased, and quite a few seemed to think they were going to play another WoW or GW2 - as if they ignored the possibility that this game is trying something different.
The level of knowledge and objectivity has been very low, and that's saying something considering the overall level of insight displayed in the media.
In my opinion, the primary problem is that these ignorant media people think of these games as WoW-clones - and they seem completely unable to provide a fresh perspective. It takes experience to understand that not all games are alike - and an MMO isn't a thing set in stone.
Yeah how silly of them to point out that the first 10 levels are horrible and unbearable for most players.
I cannot beat poor reasoning you are proposing...
Originally posted by Gdemami
Yeah, because if I dislike something, everyone else does too, right?
This isn't a single reviewer, or even a minority saying these things. Zone chat was full of players less than happy with the starter experience, and people have not been shy of expressing these feelings on both this forum and others. You are free to disagree, but you are just naïve if you think you are in the majority. That is why I was saying 'most' and not 'all' players.
To be clear, I didn't want a WoW clone, I wasn't bamboozled by the combat (it was very easy to make a decent build), and I wasn't expecting to be super powerful at level 10. What I was expecting, was that if they were going to funnel me through a main storyline before I can reach dungeons and PvP, that it should at least be enjoyable, and it wasn't. Kate Beckinsale even sounded like she wanted to shoot herself for reading some of that horrible dialogue.
Even MikeB, who has been quite supportive and positive in his reviews of the game has acknowledged how poor this starter content is. You might have been distracted by the shiny newness of the game, but other players weren't.
This isn't a single reviewer, or even a minority saying these things. Zone chat was full of players less than happy with the starter experience, and people have not been shy of expressing these feelings on both this forum and others. You are free to disagree, but you are just naïve if you think you are in the majority. That is why I was saying 'most' and not 'all' players.
That is subjective and unless you are taking a poll, hard to verify.
To me, a review is as useful as the level of insight and objectivity held by the person doing the review.
Let's just say I didn't find many of the ESO reviews/previews very useful.
I didn't find most of the 'useful' either, but I don't think it was their fault.
'NDA' screwed the 'insight'. There's only so much 'insight' one can have when all you have is the starter area.
After the Imp / CE issue and AJ's dislike of this game, I'm skipping launch and will wait.
With what they had available, they had all they needed to provide much more insight and useful feedback.
A lot of them seemed strangely biased, and quite a few seemed to think they were going to play another WoW or GW2 - as if they ignored the possibility that this game is trying something different.
The level of knowledge and objectivity has been very low, and that's saying something considering the overall level of insight displayed in the media.
In my opinion, the primary problem is that these ignorant media people think of these games as WoW-clones - and they seem completely unable to provide a fresh perspective. It takes experience to understand that not all games are alike - and an MMO isn't a thing set in stone.
Just shows how unprofessional gaming magazine staff is and why their "reviews" are so worthless.
This just goes to show why so many posts here are worthless. If the other person's views don't match someone's views exactly then then the personal insults fly. The posts that the OP referenced showed an actual respectful discussion by people and then the next post is the one above with the personal attacks flying.
When you buy the game you get 30 days, and you will clearly be passed the start island in 30 days, which is when the game really opens up.
All the reviews got to play for a weekend. Which if you were busy and could only play a little, you might not make it passed the starter island.
If it was a FTP game, you would need to worry about the stater area, because you need to hook people immediately. With P2P and free 30 days.... you don't need to worry about this as much.
ESO grabbed me almost immediately and Wildstar literally provoked a negative physical reaction.
If you understand game design and you're aware that not all MMOs have to work in an identical fashion to be acceptable, ESO will grab you quite quickly, if you're into its design.
If it doesn't grab you until level 10, it's because you're not an informed gamer and you lack the open mind required for a fair evaluation. Even worse, you might be biased against it from the start - which makes you worthless as a person providing accurate feedback.
The game isn't the problem - you're the problem.
Obviously, if the game isn't for you - it won't grab you at all, but that's another matter entirely.
You just EXACTLY proved the point what people are discussing do you realise that?
People will leave the game if its not funny. And who are you to judge what the masses likes and dont like?
From a developer standpoint, if you dont manage to grab the attention of the majority...you have failed and your game will fall into only the dedicated ESO fanboys that were gonna buy the game regardlessly like zombies.
ESO grabbed me almost immediately and Wildstar literally provoked a negative physical reaction.
If you understand game design and you're aware that not all MMOs have to work in an identical fashion to be acceptable, ESO will grab you quite quickly, if you're into its design.
If it doesn't grab you until level 10, it's because you're not an informed gamer and you lack the open mind required for a fair evaluation. Even worse, you might be biased against it from the start - which makes you worthless as a person providing accurate feedback.
The game isn't the problem - you're the problem.
Obviously, if the game isn't for you - it won't grab you at all, but that's another matter entirely.
You just EXACTLY proved the point what people are discussing do you realise that?
People will leave the game if its not funny. And who are you to judge what the masses likes and dont like?
From a developer standpoint, if you dont manage to grab the attention of the majority...you have failed and your game will fall into only the dedicated ESO fanboys that were gonna buy the game regardlessly like zombies.
No, I didn't realise I proved anything.
I'm not judging what the masses will like.
Maybe you could attempt reading what I write - and then get back to me?
It's just amazing to me how many people can't understand the difference between a first look or preview of a game based on limited play and time with it and an actual review of the game.When they can't even understand that fundamental and obvious difference it makes it hard to accept the rest of their opinions as worthwhile IMO.
Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.
There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.
Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL
Yeah how silly of them to point out that the first 10 levels are horrible and unbearable for most players.
I cannot beat poor reasoning you are proposing...
Originally posted by Gdemami
Yeah, because if I dislike something, everyone else does too, right?
This isn't a single reviewer, or even a minority saying these things. Zone chat was full of players less than happy with the starter experience, and people have not been shy of expressing these feelings on both this forum and others. You are free to disagree, but you are just naïve if you think you are in the majority. That is why I was saying 'most' and not 'all' players.
Your the one who is naive if you think this website or any other whether a review is positive or negative reflects the thoughts and feelings of all gamers. If that was the case WoW would have closed long ago and GW2 would be the god of all mmo's. I'm willing to bet there are far more people who think the starter areas are just fine and don't feel a need to tell the world about it. I'm sure most don't even know this site exists. Those people make up the majority and that is what Zenimax should be concerned with.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
How about they simply fix the borderline broken Newbie experience and everyone is happy?
Sure, the paywall means people will try to force themselves to enjoy it and will probably get past level 10,... but that is still bad buisiness.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Comments
Actually no, it is the reviewers job to inform people of their personal thoughts and impressions.
The non-biased list of features that you are looking for is supplied by the developer and usually put in a blurb on the back of the box or in advertising.
Ah! So a review should be reading the points at the 'back of the box'!
Wait a min....LOLWUT?!
You keep saying the word 'review' but I don't think it means what you think it means.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If you actually read the site it said the following on their collections of articles
Today, we present to you our impressions of last weekend's preview event and the beta so far. We've got videos on character creation, thoughts on the starting zones and storytelling, guides to skill progression and racial perks, and an overview of the state of the game from an MMO player who isn't already a nut for the series. Enjoy!
To me, a review is as useful as the level of insight and objectivity held by the person doing the review.
Let's just say I didn't find many of the ESO reviews/previews very useful.
I cannot beat poor reasoning you are proposing...
I didn't find most of the 'useful' either, but I don't think it was their fault.
'NDA' screwed the 'insight'. There's only so much 'insight' one can have when all you have is the starter area.
After the Imp / CE issue and AJ's dislike of this game, I'm skipping launch and will wait.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If you believe that write up without input of personal bias is just making it "points at the back of the box", I won't argue with you.
It just shows how limited your erudance is.
With what they had available, they had all they needed to provide much more insight and useful feedback.
A lot of them seemed strangely biased, and quite a few seemed to think they were going to play another WoW or GW2 - as if they ignored the possibility that this game is trying something different.
The level of knowledge and objectivity has been very low, and that's saying something considering the overall level of insight displayed in the media.
In my opinion, the primary problem is that these ignorant media people think of these games as WoW-clones - and they seem completely unable to provide a fresh perspective. It takes experience to understand that not all games are alike - and an MMO isn't a thing set in stone.
Quite annoying, really.
So why do you care so much?
This isn't a single reviewer, or even a minority saying these things. Zone chat was full of players less than happy with the starter experience, and people have not been shy of expressing these feelings on both this forum and others. You are free to disagree, but you are just naïve if you think you are in the majority. That is why I was saying 'most' and not 'all' players.
To be clear, I didn't want a WoW clone, I wasn't bamboozled by the combat (it was very easy to make a decent build), and I wasn't expecting to be super powerful at level 10. What I was expecting, was that if they were going to funnel me through a main storyline before I can reach dungeons and PvP, that it should at least be enjoyable, and it wasn't. Kate Beckinsale even sounded like she wanted to shoot herself for reading some of that horrible dialogue.
Even MikeB, who has been quite supportive and positive in his reviews of the game has acknowledged how poor this starter content is. You might have been distracted by the shiny newness of the game, but other players weren't.
That is subjective and unless you are taking a poll, hard to verify.
Because I'm a human being, probably.
This just goes to show why so many posts here are worthless. If the other person's views don't match someone's views exactly then then the personal insults fly. The posts that the OP referenced showed an actual respectful discussion by people and then the next post is the one above with the personal attacks flying.
So what if the start island is a little bland.
When you buy the game you get 30 days, and you will clearly be passed the start island in 30 days, which is when the game really opens up.
All the reviews got to play for a weekend. Which if you were busy and could only play a little, you might not make it passed the starter island.
If it was a FTP game, you would need to worry about the stater area, because you need to hook people immediately. With P2P and free 30 days.... you don't need to worry about this as much.
You just EXACTLY proved the point what people are discussing do you realise that?
People will leave the game if its not funny. And who are you to judge what the masses likes and dont like?
From a developer standpoint, if you dont manage to grab the attention of the majority...you have failed and your game will fall into only the dedicated ESO fanboys that were gonna buy the game regardlessly like zombies.
No, I didn't realise I proved anything.
I'm not judging what the masses will like.
Maybe you could attempt reading what I write - and then get back to me?
Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.
There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.
Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL
Your the one who is naive if you think this website or any other whether a review is positive or negative reflects the thoughts and feelings of all gamers. If that was the case WoW would have closed long ago and GW2 would be the god of all mmo's. I'm willing to bet there are far more people who think the starter areas are just fine and don't feel a need to tell the world about it. I'm sure most don't even know this site exists. Those people make up the majority and that is what Zenimax should be concerned with.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
How about they simply fix the borderline broken Newbie experience and everyone is happy?
Sure, the paywall means people will try to force themselves to enjoy it and will probably get past level 10,... but that is still bad buisiness.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?