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Dungeons: Symptom of what is wrong with MMOs

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,943Member Uncommon
    NO instance is a myth, it's just memory on a server. One open instance would be impossible - or alternatively will have thousands of people swarming over every inch of open dungeon space lol.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by Elikal

    I know the whippersnappers who only know post WoW-Dungeons of today can't hear it anymore. The talk of the grand old days. Even I accept I could not take all the hardships of the past. But one thing that really grinds my gears is the sheer deneration and decay of a once epic concept: Dungeons!

    Want to know why dungeons are second fiddle? You can blame Everquest for the concept of raids.

     

    Blizzard  is essentially making WoW raids now, which are turning like the dungeons. And do you really want to know why?

     

    Few want to even run a dungeon longer than 30mins. This was proven during Cata, when there were cries up and down creation of 2hr dungeons.

     

    But it all began when raids became "the thing" in MMORPGs, and that essentially started EQ.

         I'm a little confused here..  What does a dungeon have anything to do with raids?  Looking back to my EQ days.. Blackburrow was a dungeon, lower and upper guk's were dungeons, Runnyeye was a dungeon Sebilis was a dungeon.. There were not raid zones so to speak..  There were nothing more then progression zones equal to the plains of Karana, or the Commonlands.. 

         Am I assuming wrong that you consider all dungeons instanced?  This I blame WoW for, because now that I think back on it.. I don't know ONE SINGLE public zone that looks like a dungeon..  Personally I think if companies like WoW would add back some of the old world flavor they might change peoples minds..  I would LOVE to see a zone like Blackrock be an open world non-instanced adventure.. Who says I have to spend my day farming mobs in some open land like The Barrens..

         I think way too many confuse and relate the word dungeon to being what WoW defines it as = small instanced private raid zone..

    1. You're talking about the EARLY EQ. Now jump ahead and start with the first EQ raid.

    2. WoW didn't exist during EQ's time, it arrived in 2004, just 2 weeks after EQ2. Instances were NOT created by WoW.

     

    So if you want something to whip, start at where it all began.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    In wow tbc people did want to run dungeons and they were more difficult and required cc almost to the last tier. In Cata and mop they have been dumbed down do much you can literally follow a tank with your eyes actually shut for the whole fight - aoeing and clear in 15 mins. People hate mop dungeons, idiot designers with no skill and big flapping forum ears think easy = more fun.

    Not only that, MoP dungeons have been rendered completely and utterly pointless. There's no reason to run them ever.

    You can get better gear being showered in Epics on Timeless isle. After a few hours, you can be considered raid ready. Getting the JP/VP in them is meaningless since you need raid rep to spend them so you still have to raid in order to get any rewards from the dungeons. Why not just raid then? TBC and Wrath, we ran dungeons in between raids to supplement our gear. You could get gear up to one tier behind top tier. It was a long process, but I remember in a pinch getting a piece over the course of a weekend of dungeon grinding. Sure they were facerolls, but at least there was a reason to do them.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    In wow tbc people did want to run dungeons and they were more difficult and required cc almost to the last tier. In Cata and mop they have been dumbed down do much you can literally follow a tank with your eyes actually shut for the whole fight - aoeing and clear in 15 mins. People hate mop dungeons, idiot designers with no skill and big flapping forum ears think easy = more fun.

    Not only that, MoP dungeons have been rendered completely and utterly pointless. There's no reason to run them ever.

    You can get better gear being showered in Epics on Timeless isle. After a few hours, you can be considered raid ready. Getting the JP/VP in them is meaningless since you need raid rep to spend them so you still have to raid in order to get any rewards from the dungeons. Why not just raid then? TBC and Wrath, we ran dungeons in between raids to supplement our gear. You could get gear up to one tier behind top tier. It was a long process, but I remember in a pinch getting a piece over the course of a weekend of dungeon grinding. Sure they were facerolls, but at least there was a reason to do them.

     

    Perhaps Blizzard realized that people weren't just doing the dungeons for the loot, so instead of persisting with the dungeons that "nobody" liked, they put in something that people might enjoy.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Alders

    I agree with the OP.

    Dungeons of today are simply 30 minute ventures on the way to doing something else.  That's the problem.

    No, that is the solution. I want my combat fun fast, challenging, and convenient. I don't want 3 hours commitment of just playing video games.

    It is just a preference, and the market decide where is the big enough audience.

     

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from.

    He's playing games that are designed for him and millions of others just like him. His is the majority view. How is HE the one that's in the wrong genre?

    This is mmorpg.com

    A game can fail because one person doesn't like it. A game can be designed wrong because one person says so....and a person can be in the wrong genre because he doesn't agree with.....one person :)

    If many of these games that have been published in recent years actually accomplished what the developers and publishers wanted, It would be much more cut and dry. If they were successful from the start and didn't have to change their business model from their original plan, a lot of the games that players like Nari have enjoyed would not have been available to him in the way he's enjoyed them.

    In other words, the free ride is plan B because Plan A didn't work. It didn't work because the games are simply too watered down. The "wrong genre" that I spoke of really doesn't exist anymore so with that said, allow me rephrase my initial statement.

    I am in the wrong genre.

    Too you.

     

    I'm perfectly happy with transmorg and housing aspects in MMORPG.

    I'm perfectly happy with shooting hours of video and taking thousands of screenshots of pretty and funny things.

     

    To me that's worth 50 cents and hour a month. Not the next "epic" raid. Not the next "epic" arena. Not the next "craptastic" dungeon.

     

    But please don't speak for ALL of MMORPG players and their needs. Because the majority doesn't speak on forums...they're busy just playing games they like and how they like playing them.

     

    Spent years listening to players in the trenches discussing their likes and dislikes. There was only *1* time in WoW did some random talked like a typical elitist forum poster...1 time. In EQ2 the only folks that talked like elitist pigs are those elitist pigs who bring this crap into games...

     

     

    They aren't the "majority" by far (thank God!).

  • Fenrir767Fenrir767 Waitsfield, VTPosts: 595Member
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Fenrir767
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Fenrir767
    Grinding mobs for the sake of grinding mobs no thanks not fun for me would rather be able to do something useful and progress my character.

    Really.. and you think repeating instanced dungeons for badges HUNDREDS of times isn't grinding?  I don't know a game today that isn't one big grinding hamster wheel at end game.. do you?

    I have yet had to complete instanced dungeons hundreds of times for badges in the game I am playing now there are plenty of ways to progress my character and get the different things that I need. I can run dungeons multiple times if I am looking for specific gear as I level or do quests to get gear, I can go the PvP root and earn items I can use for PvP or PvE gear. 

    I have a few different options of what I can do to progress my character and I would much rather jump into a dungeon with a set chance at loot and experience the Boos Fights who's mechanics are fun in a coordinated group rather than grab 4 people grind random mobs camp rare spawn etc etc.

    By your argument most MMOs ever made has some type of big grinding hamster wheel type of end game if you want to keep getting better gear and items. I personaly prefer the new style that lets me roll more easily with my set group and have a chance at what I want instead of spending hours looking for a group, hours getting to where we need to go and then more hours waiting on a rare spawn.....

    I prefer the simplicity of the newer games makes the experience much more accessible when you have shorter amounts of time to play.

    And what games are you describing?  WoW, SWTOR, Rift, EQ2, GW2 are all about end game hamster wheel grinds.. I played LOTRO for a little while but I didn't stay long enough to know what end game was like.. But please inform me what new exciting games out there today don't have the dungeon/raid grind game?..  TY

    I am currently playing SWTOR and when I need specific loot I can run the instances I need to go get said loot, I also have the option of running dailies and weeklies to get coms for said Gear. I can also craft a portion of this gear I can also PvP for the PvP gear as well as get some planetary commendations to get some gear that will be good enough to get me started on some of the sections in the game for when you get to endgame. I can even take a break and take part in some Space PvP for some fun which is good at any level

    I never said it wasn't like running in a hamster wheel I am just pointing out that there are different things that you can do and different paths that you can take in a game or even work on all of the paths if you feel so inclined. I can pick my path each day and I enjoy the fact that I can hop on grab my friends play for an hour accomplish something towards character progression and log off and get back to real life.

    You may prefer the old way of finding an area and grinding Random mobs for hours on end, been there tried that and I hated every minute of it. I also got bored with the player created content type of end game would log in have nothing to do as I hated crafting and log out. As I said in my post but you missed I prefer the newer style of endgame to what I was getting before. I find that it has more options and the fact that it is not overly time consuming is a huge plus side for me and the people that I play with. The way it's presented and simplified suits my lifestyle now while the old style just does not. But hey to each his own

    You may be bored with it that's fine you just seem pissed of that More people enjoy the newer MMOs way more than the older ones. Hopefully someone will make a game for you but for right now I am happy with the game I am playing, my GF has started to play it with me because she finds it to be good entertainment and the stories in TOR keep her interested.

    Hopefully the genre will get a breath of fresh air something neither new and old but something truly different that we can all be excited about till then I intend to keep enjoying the games I am playing.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,512Member Uncommon
    MMO's like any other company must cater to the majority if they are to live long and prosper.  There is a reason why MMO's are designed the way they are now.  The majority of players want it that way.  MMO's bottom line are revenues.  If they see other companies struggle who have long intricate dungeons or what-ever and they see companies doing well with short mixed content then it's pretty easy to guess what model they're going to follow.  In the end the player majority always decides if a game lives, dies, or finds a niche that works.  Many a company has died because they catered to a highly verbal minority.

    "Change is the only constant."

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Alders

    I agree with the OP.

    Dungeons of today are simply 30 minute ventures on the way to doing something else.  That's the problem.

    No, that is the solution. I want my combat fun fast, challenging, and convenient. I don't want 3 hours commitment of just playing video games.

    It is just a preference, and the market decide where is the big enough audience.

     

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from.

    He's playing games that are designed for him and millions of others just like him. His is the majority view. How is HE the one that's in the wrong genre?

    This is mmorpg.com

    A game can fail because one person doesn't like it. A game can be designed wrong because one person says so....and a person can be in the wrong genre because he doesn't agree with.....one person :)

    If many of these games that have been published in recent years actually accomplished what the developers and publishers wanted, It would be much more cut and dry. If they were successful from the start and didn't have to change their business model from their original plan, a lot of the games that players like Nari have enjoyed would not have been available to him in the way he's enjoyed them.

    In other words, the free ride is plan B because Plan A didn't work. It didn't work because the games are simply too watered down. The "wrong genre" that I spoke of really doesn't exist anymore so with that said, allow me rephrase my initial statement.

    I am in the wrong genre.

    Too you.

     

    I'm perfectly happy with transmorg and housing aspects in MMORPG.

    I'm perfectly happy with shooting hours of video and taking thousands of screenshots of pretty and funny things.

     

    To me that's worth 50 cents and hour a month. Not the next "epic" raid. Not the next "epic" arena. Not the next "craptastic" dungeon.

     

    But please don't speak for ALL of MMORPG players and their needs. Because the majority doesn't speak on forums...they're busy just playing games they like and how they like playing them.

     

    Spent years listening to players in the trenches discussing their likes and dislikes. There was only *1* time in WoW did some random talked like a typical elitist forum poster...1 time. In EQ2 the only folks that talked like elitist pigs are those elitist pigs who bring this crap into games...

     

     

    They aren't the "majority" by far (thank God!).

    In all seriousness, I really don't see what eilitism or even the likes and dislikes of players has to do with the number of MMOs in recent years that had to adjust their business models or close down. Other than players dislike the game and/or its business model.

  • ThumbtackJThumbtackJ columbus, OHPosts: 539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Octagon7711
    MMO's like any other company must cater to the majority if they are to live long and prosper. 

    That's the thing though. A lot of recent MMO's have catered the to majority, and have still had to change business models (some in record time), due to not being able to keep players.

     

    Developers would have to be able to push out an insanely high amount of quick/easy content, monthly (maybe even weekly) in order to keep these majority of people playing, instead of moving on to the next game. That's not a financially viable option. 

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

     

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from. 

    If what someone is looking for is an RPG with a persistent online world that includes a bunch of other players, they are in the right genre.  Possibly not the right game depending on their tastes and which they play, but definitely the right genre.

    Originally posted by dontadow

    The Genre is adapting to serve people who don't like role playing games. Its the sad truth. The reason Subway sells pizza now and Mcdonalds sells fried chicken. Game companies (companies in general) don't want to greatly please niches, they want to mildly entertain the masses. This is why I"m looking to kIckstarter for the games I enjoy. I'd rather have a small indy publisher make something that's not as big budget but is as friendly.

    You would have to have a fairly strange definition of RPG to make this argument.  Games like TOR, TSW, and ESO have substantially more RPG in them than most past MMOs have had.

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Not only that, MoP dungeons have been rendered completely and utterly pointless. There's no reason to run them ever.

    If a given piece of content is actually fun, it could have no gear reward at all and people would still do it.  Because that is the point of games, having fun.  Only terrible content "needs" great rewards, so if people stop playing through something when it stops giving good rewards, it is likely something that was never really worth playing in the first place.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • R.LimaR.Lima BrasPosts: 116Member Uncommon
    I agree completely. Having played Dungeons and Dragons Online and Vanguard, I was absolutely appalled when I ran my first WoW "dungeon". It was a completely linear, mundane, and repetitive experience where our group would follow a line, going from room to room killing weaker monsters and at certain points a more powerful boss-type monster would appear, rinse and repeat. In comparison, the dungeons in DDO had deadly traps, secret doors, puzzles, locked chests, multiple passages, varying objectives, a DM narrating the experience, the ability to interact with objects such as doors and ladders, and some even featured fun twists like gravity shifts. I only hope future MMORPG's decide to stray away from this over-simplistic design present in WoW and most other modern MMORPG's and go back to featuring amazing dungeons like in DDO.
  • VarshevaVarsheva Apex, NCPosts: 29Member Common

    OP is totally correct. I do not buy the "we are older, we don't have time" arguments. A dungeon can be designed to have safe camping points or multiple points of entrance using unlocks/teleports. DDO did have some cool ones.

    OP would flip out (or maybe already has) with certain dungeons I came across in a certain game last weekend. The thing literally was ONE SMALL SQUARE. You did not even have a choice to go left or right, you entered, zerged the mobs through 4 hallways and left right where you entered. Hopefully some intern or something made this abomination.

    Wish someone would post a screenshot of that one, I am sure many saw it!

  • ErgloadErgload GV, OHPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Itherael
    I agree completely. Having played Dungeons and Dragons Online and Vanguard, I was absolutely appalled when I ran my first WoW "dungeon". It was a completely linear, mundane, and repetitive experience where our group would follow a line, going from room to room killing weaker monsters and at certain points a more powerful boss-type monster would appear, rinse and repeat. In comparison, the dungeons in DDO had deadly traps, secret doors, puzzles, locked chests, multiple passages, varying objectives, a DM narrating the experience, the ability to interact with objects such as doors and ladders, and some even featured fun twists like gravity shifts. I only hope future MMORPG's decide to stray away from this over-simplistic design present in WoW and most other modern MMORPG's and go back to featuring amazing dungeons like in DDO.

    Yeah the DDO dungeons were really cool the first time I played through them, they definitely had replay value.

    image

    Currently playing: Achaea
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
    Originally posted by Octagon7711
    MMO's like any other company must cater to the majority if they are to live long and prosper. 

    That's the thing though. A lot of recent MMO's have catered the to majority, and have still had to change business models (some in record time), due to not being able to keep players.

     

    That is because of competition. That is a good reason to cater even MORE to the majority, not less.

     

  • KilsinKilsin NSWPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by jpnz

    If I have 1 hour to watch a TV show or whatever, I'd spend that hour running a couple of dungeons in an MMO.

    That kind of logic makes sense right now and it isn't really the amount of time that's the problem.

    The problem is that you need 2 hours consecutively for a dungeon like the one you want.

    Ask anyone over 35 that's married and has kids about that.

    20 mins to an hour here and there for  2 hours total on an evening? Doable, probably.

    2 hours consecutively after work at home? ROFL! I wish!

     

    The problem is not that you have only 1 hour, the problem is that you feel entitled to have the same in that 1 hour than someone else who wants to invest 5-6 hours.

    Absolutely spot on!

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Alders

    I agree with the OP.

    Dungeons of today are simply 30 minute ventures on the way to doing something else.  That's the problem.

    No, that is the solution. I want my combat fun fast, challenging, and convenient. I don't want 3 hours commitment of just playing video games.

    It is just a preference, and the market decide where is the big enough audience.

     

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from.

    He's playing games that are designed for him and millions of others just like him. His is the majority view. How is HE the one that's in the wrong genre?

    This is mmorpg.com

    A game can fail because one person doesn't like it. A game can be designed wrong because one person says so....and a person can be in the wrong genre because he doesn't agree with.....one person :)

    In this case, UO failed and EQ failed because i don't like it. They are designed wrong .. because there is no instances, and you are in the wrong genre because you don't agree with me that MMORPGs are solo-lobby games.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    The problem as I see it, is that the fundamental designs that made this genre initially successful do not apply to the masses....the millions.  They simply don't like what defined the early genre. MMORPGs are niche. The next problem is that trying to redesign a game to suit this demographic has caused the genre to change, but no matter what, you still have a square peg filed down to fit in a round hole. It's just an abortion of the original.

    It is not a problem .. it is progress. The genre is adapting to serve more people. You may not like it .. but that is how business works.

     

    But it's not. Even by your past admissions as to your style of play, you are costing these publishers money. They aren't profiting by you. There is little progress, Most of the games you've enjoyed came as a result of one failed attempt after another. You have reaped the benefits of that string of failures and you enjoy it. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that in itself, but I'd hardly call that progress. It's not what Developers and publishers would have called a history of success.

    They profit from whales .. they made a lot MORE money because of that (just look at the growth of the f2p market). THAT is progress.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Alders

    I agree with the OP.

    Dungeons of today are simply 30 minute ventures on the way to doing something else.  That's the problem.

    No, that is the solution. I want my combat fun fast, challenging, and convenient. I don't want 3 hours commitment of just playing video games.

    It is just a preference, and the market decide where is the big enough audience.

     

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from.

     

    Edit: I want to clear this up. my statement was worded wrong. I was thinking along the lines of how Nari enjoys games like LOL (the MOBA style game) And that he's approached a lot of Free MMOs in the same fashion.

    I did not mean to come across with a GTFO attitude.

    "wrong genre"? I don't really care what genre i am in .. i just play fun (to me) games. If MMORPGs want to cater to me, why shouldn't i reap the benefit of having fun?

    And in fact, they have to work hard to cater to me, because i am more like to play ARPGs, and SP games. It is up to them.

    BTW, actually i don't enjoy MOBA and i do not play LoL although i recognize its success. I am more a ARPG player. D3, PoE, Marvel Heroes .. those are more my thing .. and yes, i approach all my gaming the same fashion. MMO is not special (aside from the fact that they are usually free).

    Yes, i am sure the OP wants some games catering to him too .. but that is not my problem.

     

  • ingphorlasingphorlas hamilton, ONPosts: 32Member

    Carn Dum the last great group dungeon ! and it had locks so people that didnt want to spend hours consecutively didnt have to they could hit a couple locks in an hour do some more over the course of the week then. I guess the problem was setting up a group that wanted to take a week to do it slowly

     

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon

    Here's another perspective,

    While I'm not a gaming programmer, I do understand the joys of my clients experiencing my hard work. If I put years and poured my hard-earned work into designing this elaborate, complex, and beautiful dungeon, I'll be danged if I only allowed 5% of total player base to have the capabilities to experience it. That dungeon is my masterpiece...

     

    But I'm not a gaming programmer....I don't know. Maybe they aren't that proud of their work...

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by Kilsin
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by jpnz

    If I have 1 hour to watch a TV show or whatever, I'd spend that hour running a couple of dungeons in an MMO.

    That kind of logic makes sense right now and it isn't really the amount of time that's the problem.

    The problem is that you need 2 hours consecutively for a dungeon like the one you want.

    Ask anyone over 35 that's married and has kids about that.

    20 mins to an hour here and there for  2 hours total on an evening? Doable, probably.

    2 hours consecutively after work at home? ROFL! I wish!

     

    The problem is not that you have only 1 hour, the problem is that you feel entitled to have the same in that 1 hour than someone else who wants to invest 5-6 hours.

    Absolutely spot on!

     

    Given that the rewards are arbitrary, differ from game to game and that the quality of the rewards only makes sense relative to the other content that's available, the whole "entitled" statement doesn't make sense.  There are raids though, and raids take a longer period of time to run, and the rewards are considerably better.  It sounds much more like @jpnz just wants content that's available and fits into the slice of time they are making available for gaming, not that @jpnz is trying to get five or six times the loot for the same time slice that someone else spends in the game.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Alders

    I agree with the OP.

    Dungeons of today are simply 30 minute ventures on the way to doing something else.  That's the problem.

    No, that is the solution. I want my combat fun fast, challenging, and convenient. I don't want 3 hours commitment of just playing video games.

    It is just a preference, and the market decide where is the big enough audience.

     

    And as has been pointed out to you oh so many times. You are in the wrong genre. Or at least in some kind of overlap. There are plenty of game out there for you and what you like.

    OP and those who agree with him would like to have at least one available to chose from.

     

    Edit: I want to clear this up. my statement was worded wrong. I was thinking along the lines of how Nari enjoys games like LOL (the MOBA style game) And that he's approached a lot of Free MMOs in the same fashion.

    I did not mean to come across with a GTFO attitude.

    "wrong genre"? I don't really care what genre i am in .. i just play fun (to me) games. If MMORPGs want to cater to me, why shouldn't i reap the benefit of having fun?

    And in fact, they have to work hard to cater to me, because i am more like to play ARPGs, and SP games. It is up to them.

    BTW, actually i don't enjoy MOBA and i do not play LoL although i recognize its success. I am more a ARPG player. D3, PoE, Marvel Heroes .. those are more my thing .. and yes, i approach all my gaming the same fashion. MMO is not special (aside from the fact that they are usually free).

    Yes, i am sure the OP wants some games catering to him too .. but that is not my problem.

     

    Yes, I corrected that statement in a later post. It was inaccurate for me to say that to you.

    Truth is....the genre you are in is the reality. You have what you want. The one I want is no longer a reality so that in and of itself speaks volumes. And that's why I changed my statement. But that doesn't mean I believe this is the way the devs and publishers want it. It's just what they are stuck with.

     

  • plat0nicplat0nic new york, NYPosts: 301Member

    I just wanna speed grind for my purps man! I agree though op, triple A mmo's with massive pop aren't going to get the old school dungeons. You need a niche market mmorpg .

    image
    Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
    2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Bossalinie

    Here's another perspective,

    While I'm not a gaming programmer, I do understand the joys of my clients experiencing my hard work. If I put years and poured my hard-earned work into designing this elaborate, complex, and beautiful dungeon, I'll be danged if I only allowed 5% of total player base to have the capabilities to experience it. That dungeon is my masterpiece...

     

    But I'm not a gaming programmer....I don't know. Maybe they aren't that proud of their work...

    That was what blizz said ... it is idiotic to spend millions to create raids & dungeons where only 2% of the players will see. That is why we now have LFD, LFR, and difficulty selection.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Truth is....the genre you are in is the reality. You have what you want. The one I want is no longer a reality so that in and of itself speaks volumes. And that's why I changed my statement. But that doesn't mean I believe this is the way the devs and publishers want it. It's just what they are stuck with.

     

    "stuck with"? I don't know what they want .. but it is preposterous to assume that you know. How do you know they don't want success with a bigger audience? How do you know they don't want more money? How do you know this kind of gaming is not what they like? Certainly many like it .. may be some devs too.

    I don't think it is that unique that what you want is no longer being produced. For example, I like locked room mystery and that has gone out of fashion for decades, and now no one is writing them. But i don't sulk and demand .. i turn to other entertainment (or read the old novels).

    We are talking about entertainment here ... there are always other choices .. just like i don't like EQ and UO .. so i stopped playing and have not come back until WoW is into BC.

     

     

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