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SOE is heading in the direction of Eve (And that means open world PVP!)

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  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIPosts: 328Member Common

    Uh, no. They wouldn't take the time to ask -multiple- questions about what type of gameplay and servers their intended audience wants, see that only a quarter of them want a PVP style of gameplay, and then ignore that data to make the entire game open PVP.

    You'll get pvp servers. The entire game is not likely to be FFA PVP. Get over it.

    image
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Ender4
    Originally posted by mari3k
    OPEN WORLD PVP = EPIC FAIL !!!!!

    If this game should go this route it will fail so bad. Look at Darkfall… nobody wants to play the crap.


    Because it is a really poorly made game. I mean I don't think they should design a game around open world pvp because there are just too many people who won't buy something like that, but that doesn't mean they can't be good. WoW PvP servers have always thrived, EvE is probably the second most popular MMORPG and it has it etc.

    WoW PvP servers thrive because there are PvE servers too.

    EvE is not even close to the second most popular MMORPG, and it probably not even the 2nd most popular subscription based MMO.

    The chance of SOE putting in a "PvP server" or a few that feature open wold PvP is very high, I'd say.

    But that chance of SOE not putting more "PvE" type servers is so slim, it's not even worth mentioning.

    But that's ok, the people that want it should be able to get what they want.

    When UO: Renaissance was released in 2000, splitting the world into PvE (Trammel) and PvP (Felucca) not only did the game prosper, thrive, and begin rapidly climbing towards its eventual peak, but the developers at Origin were smart enough to leave a server, Siege Perilous, without the Trammel side and with the more "traditional" slower/limited skill gains.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    Read it and weep. 

    Why should anyone weep, EQ had open world PVP on certain servers, nothing new here lol.

    Open world PVP on FFA servers isn't new or game breaking for those who like PVE.

    Your thread is old news.

    If you think Smed is going to force PVER'S to play on total PVP servers then you are the one who needs to grab a tissue.

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  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIPosts: 328Member Common

    PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.

     

    And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

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  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon
    I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed but why would EVE's sector pvp system not work with eq:n? Or for that matter something similar to the faction based pvp system or chaos/order in old UO? Those that want open pvp can flag themselves by joining a faction or going to a low security area and having fun while those that would prefer to avoid it can stay in the heavily guarded areas. Make it so you can attack other players anywhere but depending on where you're at you will die instantly to a God's wrath or some such h if you attack another player.

    Leave player policing to the unguarded areas and let the game police the safer places with harsh instant punishment.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.

     

    And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

    Most do but not all, Age Of Wushu had 20 million players at it's peak and now it's still up in the mid teen millions. I'm an avid PVPer but i also like PVP and Age Of Wushu is for me the best out there, some features of the game have never been seen in any mmo to date.

    But yes i'm in agreement with you 99%

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilized
    I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed but why would EVE's sector pvp system not work with eq:n? Or for that matter something similar to the faction based pvp system or chaos/order in old UO? Those that want open pvp can flag themselves by joining a faction or going to a low security area and having fun while those that would prefer to avoid it can stay in the heavily guarded areas. Make it so you can attack other players anywhere but depending on where you're at you will die instantly to a God's wrath or some such h if you attack another player. Leave player policing to the unguarded areas and let the game police the safer places with harsh instant punishment.

    This is where reading the thread first would really help you lol.

    No one has a problem an EVE type PVP system on specific servers.  You get your PVP and PVPers stay on PVE servers, you wouldn't have a problem with that, right?

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  • raapnaapraapnaap LeidenPosts: 397Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

    I actually think it will be open world pvp, but, not in EQnext.

    I think it's for the new zombie apocalypse game that SOE is making. The game that he welcomed all old SWG players back for. That game is most likely what he is referring to.

    EQnext is a PvE priority, but sure, pvp servers will most likely be there.

     

    Whichever game gets the proper EVE-style sandbox approach, is the game myself and the rest of my gaming community will jump to. There are too few games in that genre that aren't complete trash, the best ones being EVE itself and Darkfall. People that enjoy these games have been hoping for years now that something decent comes along, but so few companies know how to make this type of game.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

    You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 

    EVE is a media darling despite being a pile. And people love to talk about EVE's pvp system. That's all EVE is! There is no other game in EVE. It's just PvP game with grinding materials the rest of the time. And you know what PvPers like to do? PvP. Hence the astronomical success of MOBA's and Shooters.

    And no, EVE does not have "meaningful pvp" nor does is have a "player run game" because there is nothing else in the game to do. The entire game is predicated upon grinding mats to build ships to then subsequently lose them in a battle. Does sisyphus ring a bell here?

    There's a small contingent of players who like the grind to PvP playstyle and I'm glad you enjoy it, but I hope EQN doesn't choose to make the entire game PvP focused, that'll be a shame.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Rusque

    What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

    You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 

    EVE is a media darling despite being a pile. And people love to talk about EVE's pvp system. That's all EVE is! There is no other game in EVE. It's just PvP game with grinding materials the rest of the time. And you know what PvPers like to do? PvP. Hence the astronomical success of MOBA's and Shooters.

    And no, EVE does not have "meaningful pvp" nor does is have a "player run game" because there is nothing else in the game to do. The entire game is predicated upon grinding mats to build ships to then subsequently lose them in a battle. Does sisyphus ring a bell here?

    There's a small contingent of players who like the grind to PvP playstyle and I'm glad you enjoy it, but I hope EQN doesn't choose to make the entire game PvP focused, that'll be a shame.

    I don't think bringing up Sisyphus in this crowd is going to get you very far, lol.

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by raapnaap
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

    I actually think it will be open world pvp, but, not in EQnext.

    I think it's for the new zombie apocalypse game that SOE is making. The game that he welcomed all old SWG players back for. That game is most likely what he is referring to.

    EQnext is a PvE priority, but sure, pvp servers will most likely be there.

     

    Whichever game gets the proper EVE-style sandbox approach, is the game myself and the rest of my gaming community will jump to. There are too few games in that genre that aren't complete trash, the best ones being EVE itself and Darkfall. People that enjoy these games have been hoping for years now that something decent comes along, but so few companies know how to make this type of game.

    Age Of Wushu/Wulin is very much set up like EvE.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/09/choose-my-adventure-saying-goodbye-to-age-of-wushu/

    The European version of the game is not run the same way as the North American version. We in Europe have the upper hand where how the devs run both version of the same game.

    Age Of Wulin= European version.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/age-of-wushu/

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  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Rusque

    What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

    You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 

    EVE is a media darling despite being a pile. And people love to talk about EVE's pvp system. That's all EVE is! There is no other game in EVE. It's just PvP game with grinding materials the rest of the time. And you know what PvPers like to do? PvP. Hence the astronomical success of MOBA's and Shooters.

    And no, EVE does not have "meaningful pvp" nor does is have a "player run game" because there is nothing else in the game to do. The entire game is predicated upon grinding mats to build ships to then subsequently lose them in a battle. Does sisyphus ring a bell here?

    One could just as easily say that the entire PvE game of WoW is predicated on raiding for gear to do more raids for more gear.  Doesn't sound that different when put that way; the grind is maintained through planned obsolescence rather than destruction, but it's still grinding for the sake of more grinding.

    Of course there's more to it if you care to look.  But one doesn't look when the goal is to bash.  Same can also be said of Eve:  there is more to do than just PvP if you care to look - though it does require noting that "pvp can happen any time' isn't the same as 'pvp all the time' (and I'll admit some of it is pretty flat - but 'flat' is not the same as 'not there.')  Also,  there's more ways to fund the PvP than just by grinding.

    EVE is a media darling because it stands out in a sea of sameness.  And it thrives financially without grasping for the tens-of-millions of players everyone else thinks an MMO needs (which I suspect is the part that appeals most to Smedley.)

    There's a small contingent of players who like the grind to PvP playstyle and I'm glad you enjoy it, but I hope EQN doesn't choose to make the entire game PvP focused, that'll be a shame.

    I'll give you that much.  If only because doing so will flood the game with EQ PvE'rs crying over the loss of their beloved IP.

  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Originally posted by KaitarBesh
    PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.   And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

    Most do but not all, Age Of Wushu had 20 million players at it's peak and now it's still up in the mid teen millions. I'm an avid PVPer but i also like PVP and Age Of Wushu is for me the best out there, some features of the game have never been seen in any mmo to date.

    But yes i'm in agreement with you 99%

     

    I actually do because it divides the community. I think the whole pvp/pve player separation needs to go away. If they are making server migration open then that kind of sets things up like tram/fel UO which at least is a step in the right direction which is great but in the end these special segregated areas need to go away completely.

    And please don't label me solely as a pvp player, I have raided literally with the best of them and I enjoy leveling alts / doing quests and other pve related content as well. I'm advocating the freedom for players to make their own choices and not be locked into having to be A or B. Once someone puts out a well made game with an extreme amount of player freedom we will finally see that "next gen" mmo everyone has been whispering about over the last few years. It seems to me like SOE has caught on but who really knows until we see the final product.
  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Seems like they wanna kill the game before it even comes out! great job SoE. I hate open pvp because the playerbase today si too damn immature for it, its going to be nothing but some high lv asshat ganking lv 2-5's all day, mostly the fat people who need to feel good about themselves by being a dick to people in games. I don't get why games need open gankfest pvping, its no fun, and only cowards attack people who cannot fight back fairly. Most of these gankers are cowards, they will run the very second someone even remotely close to their level shows up since they know all they can do is gank lowbies and can't fight worth shit vs someone who can actually fight back. I see this all the time in these open world pvp games, and its exactly why most of them are dysimal failues. IMO the only reason eve is even remotely success is not because of its gameplay (cuz really it sucks all you do is click menus all day). Its because they can advance their char without actually playing the game. I gaurnette if eve didn't have this feature it would have closed down years ago.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilized
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.

     

    And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

    Most do but not all, Age Of Wushu had 20 million players at it's peak and now it's still up in the mid teen millions. I'm an avid PVPer but i also like PVP and Age Of Wushu is for me the best out there, some features of the game have never been seen in any mmo to date.

    But yes i'm in agreement with you 99%

     

    I actually do because it divides the community. I think the whole pvp/pve player separation needs to go away. If they are making server migration open then that kind of sets things up like tram/fel UO which at least is a step in the right direction which is great but in the end these special segregated areas need to go away completely. And please don't label me solely as a pvp player, I have raided literally with the best of them and I enjoy leveling alts / doing quests and other pve related content as well. I'm advocating the freedom for players to make their own choices and not be locked into having to be A or B. Once someone puts out a well made game with an extreme amount of player freedom we will finally see that "next gen" mmo everyone has been whispering about over the last few years. It seems to me like SOE has caught on but who really knows until we see the final product.

    Easy solution: remove any pvp earnable gear, make the best pvp gear be the best pve raid gear, step 2: Make it so getting pked doesn't hurt the player much (like rising force online where its more of an annoyence than anything else) Do not let gankers profit from ganking lower levels. Daoc did it best, you had yoru safe zones then a large open zone where the other 2 factions are ffa for you, give some incentive to get people to lv there, like higher exp giving monsters, or better quest or something to get pve players to go in. In this day and age a open pvp game just doesn't work, the large portion of the market is casuals that just get annoyed by that.

    Pvp players today also are too immature to handle a open pvp game properly anymore. 99% of "pvpers" don't know what real pvp is, because they just gank lowbies that can't fight back in the games they play if it has open pvp. To me pvp is a fight between 2 roughly equil individuals. In rising force online I used to go to the other races zones (it was open pvp), but i'd not attack any lowbies unless they got on my nerves.. Why? 1: they aren't really worth the points and 2: I am waiting for someone worth fighting to come out and play.

    The main reason devs keep the 2 seperated is like I said, the immaturity of the player base. why give an ass the option to repeadly kill a new player to the point the new player just gets fed up since they can't progress then just quits? thats one less customer for the dev team (it happens alot more than you think it would trust me). This is the prime reason why open pvp mmo's usually fail.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • Victor_KrugerVictor_Kruger La Mesa, CAPosts: 268Member
    Originally posted by Siveria
    Seems like they wanna kill the game before it even comes out! great job SoE. I hate open pvp because the playerbase today si too damn immature for it, its going to be nothing but some high lv asshat ganking lv 2-5's all day, mostly the fat people who need to feel good about themselves by being a dick to people in games. I don't get why games need open gankfest pvping, its no fun, and only cowards attack people who cannot fight back fairly. Most of these gankers are cowards, they will run the very second someone even remotely close to their level shows up since they know all they can do is gank lowbies and can't fight worth shit vs someone who can actually fight back. I see this all the time in these open world pvp games, and its exactly why most of them are dysimal failues. IMO the only reason eve is even remotely success is not because of its gameplay (cuz really it sucks all you do is click menus all day). Its because they can advance their char without actually playing the game. I gaurnette if eve didn't have this feature it would have closed down years ago.

    Nice stereo typing of people is this rant.

    They going to have separate servers or mechanics in the game that wont force pvp on players.

    Eve keeps people playing because what you do in the game matters and can effect and change on what is going on inside the game. When two powerful alliances go too war its not meaningless and changes the economy, opens opportunities for others to exploit and has a impact that you don't get in themepark games.

  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member

    Refreshing this part for those who missed it:

     

    Me:

    @j_smedley love the blog. is SOE heading in that direction for PVP too? When will we learn more about that? Fingers crossed.

    Smedley:

    @sir_bidwood yes

     

    It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

    I really believe based on what Smedley has said that it will be like Eve Online with some "safer" zones, but the possibility of PVP happening anywhere at any time.

     

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,417Member Uncommon
    I think it'd be a bad idea for them to embrace this full on.  No one has solved the sociopathic pvper problem yet.  My gaming group wouldn't touch it.  The most adament anti-pvp voices there are from the players who worked as GM/CS on online MMOs.  They've had their fill of dealing with that small percentage of disturbed personalities who flock to such games, and try desperatly to ruin it for everyone they meet. 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

    Where did they say players can freely move between servers? This is possible in Landmark by design, but don't remember it being announced for EQN.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
    Originally posted by Gardavsshade
    (and before anyone says I'm being negative... I just gave ol Smedley much more credit in one post than I have at any time for many many years... I am trying to be positive. I still don't trust him, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this time.)

    You can always trust Smedley to go where he thinks the money is.  (Whether it's actually there or not is another story.)

    The reason I am hopeful in this case, is that he does seem to sincerely believe in the economics of the concept.  (That said, if the forecast doesn't pan out as planned, don't expect much longevity.)

    And for Smedley that is indeed a refreshing change of direction.

    Omg... I can't believe I just said that about the Smedley...

  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIPosts: 328Member Common
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

    Where did they say players can freely move between servers? This is possible in Landmark by design, but don't remember it being announced for EQN.

    They haven't announced ANYTHING of the sort for EQN AT ALL.

    This dude is grasping at straws. Again, they were VERY RECENTLY asking at Roundtable about what TYPES of servers people wanted. MOST PEOPLE said RP OR PVE. The roundtable response was they would definitely have DIFFERENT TYPES OF SERVERS and wanted people to give them specific info on "out of the box" thinking on what types of servers players would really like to see.

    So no. You can take the FFA PVP across the board and stick it up your nose, because it's just not going to happen. They'd alienate more than half their player base/EQ fans. There will be PVP servers, possibly of several "kinds", but there will also be other types of servers, such as RP, PVE, and who knows what else since they're asking people to come up with specific ideas that the devs will consider.

     

     

    image
  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

    btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.
  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

    btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

    Where are you getting that? Saying he likes EVE or FPS or MOBAs doesn't equate to EQN = OW FFA PVP. I do think PVP or conflict in general will have more substance in EQN, but not forced down anyone's throat or either accept it or don't play. They seem to want everyone to play EQN, not only a particular group of players. MMORPG PVPers are not the same as FPS-MOBA-EVE PVPers.

    I'm a huge fan of PVP, but I'm not seeing what you are. I get the feeling that EQN isn't something he would actually play from his AMA answers and some of his other comments. He seems to dislike PVE and sticks to FPS type stuff.

  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIPosts: 328Member Common
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

    btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

     

    BTW, uhm, roundtables have a direct relation to the development of the game. All you have to do is listen to their roundtable video responses. They wouldn't BOTHER asking if they weren't trying to see what direction the potential players want the game to go. If they ignore their potential players, guess what? They get no customers. You might, kiddo, also be interested to know that "no special server type" and "roleplay server" do not = OH LET'S MAKE PVE SERVERS SPECIALITY TYPE. Those two server types, which got more than half the votes combined, are generally PVE type servers (the RP server with RP ruleset). The last option "special server type" got a small amount of votes, as did PVP server type. So no, if anything, PVP servers will be a "speciality type" because they do not hold the popularity of PVE or RP server types with the crowd that is interested in EQN.

    So yeah, you're grasping at straws in your fanatic tiny hope for FFA PVP. It's not going to happen. There will be PVP severs. SOE is just not stupid enough to alienate almost 70% of their player base and lose a huge chunk of profit so a few pvp kiddies can go grief each other and newbies endlessly until the game is a ghost town like, oh, pretty much every MMO that has FFA PVP out there. Eve really DOES NOT have a great population number. They may take some inspiration from parts of it, but I highly doubt SOE wants this to be a niche game with only 200k players.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

    btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

    Where are you getting that? Saying he likes EVE or FPS or MOBAs doesn't equate to EQN = OW FFA PVP. I do think PVP or conflict in general will have more substance in EQN, but not forced down anyone's throat or either accept it or don't play. They seem to want everyone to play EQN, not only a particular group of players. MMORPG PVPers are not the same as FPS-MOBA-EVE PVPers.

    I'm a huge fan of PVP, but I'm not seeing what you are. I get the feeling that EQN isn't something he would actually play from his AMA answers and some of his other comments. He seems to dislike PVE and sticks to FPS type stuff.

    It only makes since. There's pvp going on in landmark, and there not even combat. 

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