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NCSoft Q4 Earning Reports - [mod edit]

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Comments

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,166Member Uncommon

    good game, not P2W like all other themeparks.

     

    new level 80 with basic exotic gear or less can beat max geared players who bought their stuff through gem buying.

    even killed level 80s on my upscaled toons 1vs1, nice nice nice.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,698Member Uncommon

    GW2 is obviously doing ok, though $120 Million is light years behind WoW reveneues which is about $ 1 Billion a year.

    Just to say that a good Subscription based MMO is always more profitable than a B2P or F2P game.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    So $115M in 2013 for GW2.

    Add to that $154M in 2012.

    $269M revenue.

    Although it is to be expected that the XMas quarter sees an increase in sales and that the summer quarter hits a low.

    Still the revenue of 4Q13 is comparable to the 1Q13 revenue which still had a decent amount of box sales, so all in all the GW2 cash shop seems to be quite solid.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000

    GW2 is obviously doing ok, though $120 Million is light years behind WoW reveneues which is about $ 1 Billion a year.

    Just to say that a good Subscription based MMO is always more profitable than a B2P or F2P game.

    But aside from WOW what other good subscription game is there doing that kind of money?

    For example, EVE, that is generally said to be the most successful P2P game after WoW generates less revenue than GW2.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • jpaprockijpaprocki Davisville, WVPosts: 269Member Uncommon
    Although I never liked GW2, I'm happy for the people who do like it,  that it's doing well.  I don't bash game just because I don't like it or because it's the "popular thing to do" like many on here do.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • lathaanlathaan viennaPosts: 475Member Uncommon

    cudos to you to use sarcasm on a site like this. i mean we can be happy if 50% of the people here can actually read properly ;)

    And that gw2 is doing extremely well, and is steadily growing, is no news id say.

    they got the guts to destroy their main social hub - which is/was a better designed place than most games alltogether ^^

  • KabulozoKabulozo AracajuPosts: 234Member

    2012 and 2013 sales:

     

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by ste2000

    GW2 is obviously doing ok, though $120 Million is light years behind WoW reveneues which is about $ 1 Billion a year.

    Just to say that a good Subscription based MMO is always more profitable than a B2P or F2P game.

    But aside from WOW what other good subscription game is there doing that kind of money?

    For example, EVE, that is generally said to be the most successful P2P game after WoW generates less revenue than GW2.

     

    Not sure of the exact figure, but i think Eve actually generates almost twice that of GW2, but it is a P2P game after all, so not a good comparison.image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prenho3

    2012 and 2013 sales:

     

     

     

    I hope you aren't trying to use that graph as a proof that GW2 declined in 2013 compared to 2012.

    We are talking a about a B2P with a cash shop game in here.

    2012 saw the sale of around 3 million boxes. These are a one time sale.

    2013 had way way less boxes (4 million hasn't been announced yet).

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prenho3

    2012 and 2013 sales:

     

    Impressive figures to be sure, i had no idea Lineage 1 was still going so strongly over there, one thing is fairly clear though, income from NA/EU is definitely in decline, and while that does not relate to actual player numbers, their generally spending around %25 less than the previous year, overall though i think it pretty much puts to rest any suggestion that GW2 is not popular in the Asian MMO markets image

  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member


    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Ok I'll give you that TESO is a LOT more original than Wildstar and maybe should be left out in the comparison. I guess it's just me being tired of the traditional "questing is the main route to leveling up" stuff that also TESO is guilty of. Combat is obviously very different, as is the first person view (both of which were originally not planned for the game, btw.), and the open world PvP as an endgame borrows more from DAoC than WoW.

    My apologies.


    First, I am glad GW2 is doing well because it's one of the few mmos launched after wow with a decent size world, colorful graphics,good animations and fast combat not to
    Second ,I would say wow is more close to daoc when compared to teso in one of the most important things - faction pride, teso will have nothing of that thanks to the 180 turn on the factions and races. About open world pvp - one instanced zone,with controls over the number of players entering,no matter how big is it,it's no more open world than alterac valley. All it's failings aside,wintergrasp was more open world than cyrodill.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by ste2000

    GW2 is obviously doing ok, though $120 Million is light years behind WoW reveneues which is about $ 1 Billion a year.

    Just to say that a good Subscription based MMO is always more profitable than a B2P or F2P game.

    But aside from WOW what other good subscription game is there doing that kind of money?

    For example, EVE, that is generally said to be the most successful P2P game after WoW generates less revenue than GW2.

     

    Not sure of the exact figure, but i think Eve actually generates almost twice that of GW2, but it is a P2P game after all, so not a good comparison.image

    No.

    Eve generates way less than GW2.

    image

    image

    2012 was around $65M for CCP (most of it is EVE anyway).

    2013 only has the first 6 months which is $36.5M. So expect 2013 revenue at around $70M.

    So GW2 does around 60% more than EVE.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry

     

    Impressive figures to be sure, i had no idea Lineage 1 was still going so strongly over there, one thing is fairly clear though, income from NA/EU is definitely in decline, and while that does not relate to actual player numbers, their generally spending around %25 less than the previous year, overall though i think it pretty much puts to rest any suggestion that GW2 is not popular in the Asian MMO markets image

    Maybe we should wait for GW2 to actually be released in Asian market.

    Yeah, GW2 has not been released in China, Korea and Japan yet.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member
    Originally posted by d_20

    OP, you should probably edit the title of the thread based on the info you posted.

     

     

    I think it's intentional, yeah? It's to draw in GW2 haters who think they're about to rally and give digital high-fives about how right they are, only to realize they've been played when they see the facts.

    The tactic is called the "Hate and Switch".

    image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vayman
    Originally posted by d_20

    OP, you should probably edit the title of the thread based on the info you posted.

     

     

    I think it's intentional, yeah? It's to draw in GW2 haters who think they're about to rally and give digital high-fives about how right they are, only to realize they've been played when they see the facts.

    The tactic is called the "Hate and Switch".

    "Bait and Switch"

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member
    Its all about perspective

    TOR - 139 million
    GW2 - 115 million

    GW2 sold more copies but TOR has a higher revenue.

    GW2 is doing very well on its own merits but when you compare it to TOR, not so great.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,978Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Originally posted by Nova700
    No....   31 > 22

    Sarcasm is wasted on you people.

     

    not really we recognize it as a form of passive aggressive trolling. But the real question is why are we not all playing Lineage when is it apparently is the most popular title in the NCsoft stable? perhaps they should read launch it in the West

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Phry

     

    Impressive figures to be sure, i had no idea Lineage 1 was still going so strongly over there, one thing is fairly clear though, income from NA/EU is definitely in decline, and while that does not relate to actual player numbers, their generally spending around %25 less than the previous year, overall though i think it pretty much puts to rest any suggestion that GW2 is not popular in the Asian MMO markets image

    Maybe we should wait for GW2 to actually be released in Asian market.

    Yeah, GW2 has not been released in China, Korea and Japan yet.

    Apologies, kind of assumed that because it was listed alongside those games that it was also in the same 'market' obviously misread the charts image

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    Just to point out gaia the earnings you showed of EvE shows for 2012 in two columns. 65,297,000 and 32,189,000 which is about 97 million no ? What is insane is that their operating expenses practically wipe their profits. Just in case anyone is wondering the numbers are in $000s.Everyone says these games do not spend that much but looking at CCP figures they are spending a lot.


    Vayman is correct in this context it is hate and switch he did not make a mistake it was a play of words on the usual bait and switch expression.

    image

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,978Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by ste2000
    GW2 is obviously doing ok, though $120 Million is light years behind WoW reveneues which is about $ 1 Billion a year. Just to say that a good Subscription based MMO is always more profitable than a B2P or F2P game.

    But aside from WOW what other good subscription game is there doing that kind of money?

    For example, EVE, that is generally said to be the most successful P2P game after WoW generates less revenue than GW2.

     

    Not sure of the exact figure, but i think Eve actually generates almost twice that of GW2, but it is a P2P game after all, so not a good comparison.image

    No.

    Eve generates way less than GW2.

    image

    image

    2012 was around $65M for CCP (most of it is EVE anyway).

    2013 only has the first 6 months which is $36.5M. So expect 2013 revenue at around $70M.

    So GW2 does around 60% more than EVE.

     

    great work. More proof that high revenues don't necessarily equal a great game. Thanks for sharing.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • KabulozoKabulozo AracajuPosts: 234Member
    If Lineage Eternal is as successful as Lineage 1 NC will be able to reach US 900+ million a year in revenue.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Just to point out gaia the earnings you showed of EvE shows for 2012 in two columns. 65,297,000 and 32,189,000 which is about 97 million no ? What is insane is that their operating expenses practically wipe their profits. Just in case anyone is wondering the numbers are in $000s.Everyone says these games do not spend that much but looking at CCP figures they are spending a lot.


    Vayman is correct in this context it is hate and switch he did not make a mistake it was a play of words.

    Eve is probably the only income the company has, Dust was an epic fail, and WoD is still in development, all draining income from Eve, so in a way its not too surprising that their costs are so high vs revenue generated.image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Just to point out gaia the earnings you showed of EvE shows for 2012 in two columns. 65,297,000 and 32,189,000 which is about 97 million no ? What is insane is that their operating expenses practically wipe their profits. Just in case anyone is wondering the numbers are in $000s.Everyone says these games do not spend that much but looking at CCP figures they are spending a lot.


    Vayman is correct in this context it is hate and switch he did not make a mistake it was a play of words on the usual bait and switch expression.

    The two columns for 2012 are "2012 full year" and "2012 first 6 months". You don't add them.

    This is done to compare the performance of 2013 with 2012, since the available data for 2013 was only up the end of July.

    Also if you see the gross margins are in the 90s%. That is insanely high.

    That means to sell you $1 worth of game they only spend $0.1, so have $0.9 profit.

    They are spending a lot because they have over 600 workers developing a few games.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • askdabossaskdaboss LondonPosts: 631Member
    Originally posted by Vayman
    Originally posted by d_20

    OP, you should probably edit the title of the thread based on the info you posted.

    I think it's intentional, yeah? It's to draw in GW2 haters who think they're about to rally and give digital high-fives about how right they are, only to realize they've been played when they see the facts.

    Every year, for years to come, they will relentlessly come back, hoping this time at last to prove everyone how "they knew it", "they were right" and how the game is a financial disaster, a complete failure...

    They will just keep the salve they had prepared each year for the next year until (one day) they are right, accumulating the deep hatred and resentment against the game that would challenge them year after year.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    But the real question is why are we not all playing Lineage when is it apparently is the most popular title in the NCsoft stable? perhaps they should read launch it in the West

    Because Lineage did horribly in the west.

    It's too... well, too Korean for the US market, apparently.  And it basically did in Korea what WoW did in the West, hitting a sort of sweet spot during the surge in MMOs, and getting a whole ton of momentum. 

    There are Chinese games that are ludicrously popular... in China, but they don't do too well in the US either.  It's why it's a little surprising to me that GW2 beta is so incredibly popular in China (Most popular yet-to-be-launched MMO in China), though they have retooled a lot of the game so the xp payout is much lower, and you require much more to advance (Both at the same time.)  Though that might have made it more popular with some people in the US too!

    No gaming market is monolithic in its tastes, I suppose.

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