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Originally posted by Uhwop Sounds a lot more like, because you enjoy the game, any alternative opinion to yours is BS. Well not really "sounds", its literally what you wrote.
Part of this is reading about how f'in amazing it is, the greatest mmo evar, anyone with any past and modern mmo experience knows it's the novelty of the starting zones talking and in a few months these people will be off to a new shinny, and yes i'm 100% guilty of this too.
Originally posted by psiic I have see so called press lie their asses off about a piece of shit game to get us to buy it, but this is the first time I've seen press lying their asses off about a great game to try and get us not to buy it. Frankly I think it is time for game devs to start re-evaluating who truly deserves to be considered press. I think Angry Joe really states the real issue here. The ENTITLED mentality. Basically he states... If ESO was a FREE game with this awesome engine, fantastic combat, superior graphics, and huge huge world, this would be the BEST game EVER!! But because it's not FREE it sucks.... This whole entitled mentality that has become so prevalent really pisses me off. ESO is costing them a rather sizable investment, to provide a quality staff, and NOT to pink slip the whole dev team right after launch like EVERY F2P game has done costs money. If you do not like it then go play one of the 100's of F2P games that you are bored with in two weeks, or raising hell because they have no support staff and you have to wait weeks to get an email answered. Tons of us are excited over ESO and even more excited to be getting back to a sub based model so we do not have to put up with gold spammers, botters, hackers, chat spamming idiots, and entitled kiddies.
Yep. Considered press. What they are reviewing the game against.
And what they are reviewing the game against is a subscription based mmo. And the bulk of them are coming up with - I wouldn't call them bad reviews but simply so-so reviews. As you say Angry Joe said it would be great as a F2P game.
So basically AJs problem - and maybe some of the other reviewers as well - is the payment method. Now you talk about an entitled mentality. Well I think people should pay for games but they should also get what they pay for.
Zenimax - like lots of devs before them - are saying the sub is to provide new content. Yet it won't work out that way. The sub will hurt initial sales big time - no one expects TESO to sell tens of millions. Yet because of the investment it probably needs to sell high millions at least and then more still to make a profit.
Pick your own numbers. If the game cost $150M and they make $30 from every sale that means they need 5M sales just to recover the cost. Ouch. Yes the base game costs c. $60 but in most countries 20% of that is tax and then there are retail or online costs e.g. Amazon's share, Visa / Paypal etc. Pick your own numbers but they need big sales. And a sub hurts sales.
And when it doesn't sell 5M+ - because of the sub - what happens? Pink slips as you say. Your posts are probably helping to doom the long term future of the game. It will survive for sure with a loyal fanbase but not as it should.
The alternative. Doesn't have to be F2P. B2P + regular DLC. And if they don't have the DLC drops on day 1 reduce the size of the base game. cut 50% and simply sell a huge game rather than a gigantic one; sell the rest as 4 or 5 DLC drops at $15 or whatever. Doubles the price of the game in essence!
The history of all recent sub-based launches - going back years now - have ended with devs being moved. Maybe to a different game or given a pink slip.
And if it was B2P I think the reviews would be much more positive. And Skyrim like sales would be possible.
Well let me say "Suspicious" of the negative reviews? It's people being honest for once. Not like the IGN-paid off reviewers. I, for instance, did not particulary especially enjoy the ESO Beta really, I don't think it really brought anything new or interesting to the table and it is kind of mind-boggling to me that ESO does not have any dragons. I know it is not the right time period or whatever but still, there is a damn Dragon Night class for god sakes too. Skyrim was all about dragons... Anyways that's just a gripe of mine. I also think people have been saying wow, you can equip whatever you want now and can basically build whatever you want but in reality there is still equipment that is better then the next piece and it is not really a reality in that aspect. I don't think the small amount of classes is enough honestly, even with the amount of flexibility with equipment and all of that stuff. A HUGE gripe with me is the not knowing about end-game PvE content, I mean really?, a game I am going to sub to and there is no end-game raiding or really anything I've heard about it? C'mon already...
Basically I am going to sub to a game that takes hours to level to like level 10, basically getting a dumbed down Skyrim with less graphics, NO PvE end-game raiding at launch or atleast nothing that I heard about yet, PvP that sounds like something out of SWTOR (Ilum), and I don't think this will concept of Elder Scrolls Online will work because of something that "Angry Joe" referenced in his review of this game stating something like "Elder Scrolls Online is just a dumbed down Skyrim with Friends". If you want a good Elder Scrolls game with Lore and adventure play Skyrim! I just think MMO players will want to level and traditionally story is not really a huge concern in MMOs. I am definitely more of an MMORPG player then Elder Scrolls player and I know that story means something but this game is trying to make it really all about that. That concept tried to work also in SWTOR, but really didn't do a great job and the story was more then the game was worth, I hope ESO doesn't make a similar mistake here.
If you like ESO - great.
That said, it is NOT the 2nd coming of anything. It is a console game that they have a port for the PC with. The MOBS look terrible, what were they thinking? They spent so much time with the environment and it's looks but nothing looks 3D it is very unidimensional. Also, they spent tons of money on voice acting, John Cleese, Michael Gambon, etc. and nothing on the combat. The toons for the players look awful too and the way they look running, riding, etc is laughable.
If they want me to play this game, they need to make it B2P as this game has as much depth as a mud puddle.
"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum
Could be that *GASP* many of the reviewers are long-time game players, including the single player TES titles, and long-time MMO gamers, and they actually don't like what they see.
Or, the first 10-15 levels are just as boring and uninspired as the previews make them seem to be, which despite how much "better" the rest of the game MIGHT be, according to NDA breakers mind you, is a horrible, horrible design decision by Zenimax.
That's your opinion, as you've said.
As I've said, I disagree, and have a great deal of first hand evidence that many others disagree too. The game rocks ;o)
All it comes down to now is long term appeal and how much it grows.
Only had to play the Beta weekend to know the crap that game is. No review necessary.
You should try it too.
PS: Roll an archer archetype and shoot arrows while near enemies, watch the arrows go where your aim is not. Magically bending to lock to the enemies and hit them...
Love that "deep" combat.
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi Only had to play the Beta weekend to know the crap that game is. No review necessary. You should try it too. PS: Roll an archer archetype and shoot arrows while near enemies, watch the arrows go where your aim is not. Magically bending to lock to the enemies and hit them... Love that "deep" combat.
But, but, you can dodge!!!
Originally posted by BadSpock Could be that *GASP* many of the reviewers are long-time game players, including the single player TES titles, and long-time MMO gamers, and they actually don't like what they see. Or, the first 10-15 levels are just as boring and uninspired as the previews make them seem to be, which despite how much "better" the rest of the game MIGHT be, according to NDA breakers mind you, is a horrible, horrible design decision by Zenimax.
That's kinda inaccurate too. As someone who has played through the single player titles myself, but also played MMOs such as WoW and many others, I know the difference between Single Player games and MMOs. This certainly is an elder scrolls game, but it's also an MMO. I'd say exactly as it says on the box.
I love it. Lots of other people love it. In fact the vast majority I've spoken to love it. It just seems those who don't love it are over represented on these threads.
That said I guess it's all good - It's like the Simon Cowell effect. The more talked about it is, the more people will check it out themselves. It was the same when I first heard of WoW - I saw it mentioned in a negative way on a thread. Looked into it and loved it. Stuck with it for a good few years until they destroyed it catering too heavily for the elitists. Those days are long gone though lol.
You're on to something here, and I totally agree with you.
I've been playing MMOs, every MMO I can get my gamer-addict hands on, since Everquest, Acheron's Call, and Ultima Online.
I can honestly say that I was thoroughly pleased with and immersed into ESO from the first hour of play on Friday night, during my first foray into the Beta test.
I agree that ESO much more engaging and pleasing to play than AoC, Rift, DDO, Lotro, and many other MMOs that have come out since the Everquest days.
I was thoroughly impressed with every aspect of the game, and will definitely play it when it releases. I look forward to playing in all the factions, and plan to level several characters up to try out the various classes and races.
Devil bunny needs a ham, and he's pretty sure knocking you off a building will get him one.
Originally posted by WikileaksEU Bad reviewers have played too much World of Warcraft. They are also comparing ESO with Skyrim, which is fucking stupid, as Skyrim is purely single player and ESO is an mmorpg. Big difference in both software and hardware. Edit: Gamers today are spoiled and need a good slap in the face. Such a hard slap to the face they fly away across the room and into the wall behind them and leave a mark there.
So you disagree with people who don't like the game and think physical assault is what is needed to put them in place? Most of the negativity I have heard has nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with dullness in game. If they didn't want a comparison to Skyrim they shouldn't have used the IP.
For one, don't let this site or any other decide for you what to like or dislike. The few on forums who cry the loudest are also the minority and it will always be this way. The success or failure of a game isn't decided on a forum, it's decided by the majority of the folks who don't bother posting on here or any other forum.
If your wondering if you should spend your money on it? Wait for a trial or ask a friend whom you know in person and has actually played the game at length after release. These are just opinions on here, just like mine and you know what they say about opinions.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Originally posted by Dulu Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names. Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting. And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history. My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews? What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!) I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..
Nope! If the painted on armor was the real problem. This would be an easy fix... But its not.. But I am curious to find out the AWESOME review. Because there has not been a good game in a long long time... I think Bill Murphy did a fine review. But always goes a little to soft on the painful stuff..
I love it
haha you'd make a funny game designer. I can just imagine the response to your new game:
"Don't roll an archer. You shoot your arrows forward and people just move to the side. Seriously it's rubbish. You can't hit anything. Why bother with archers.. omg.. wtf... etc. etc... lol"
Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by rodingo Sure it could be some conspiracy that people are being paid to badmouth the game. However, I think the more realistic approach is that they are just saying what they feel about the game.
or maybe they are scared of the backlash they will get from their readers by saying anything positive about the game?
writers will say whatever they need to say to get people to read their articles or subscribe to their youtube channels.
i mean, if i took these "reviews" to heart, i would think that ESO was one of the worst mmo's ever created and i know that isn't true so something isn't right here.
Whatever garners the most hits, sells the most magazines, ect.
And essentially what they wrote about was a 1st impression. Most didnt even get to level 10, play any PvP or experience much of anything beyond an hour or two of game play.
add to the fact that damn near everyone who applied for beta got in to try it, even gave out free keys to some sites, and people can form their own opinions.
The game may suck, or may be the game your looking for. Form your own opinion. If your hesitant just wait to buy it and get some feedback from people who play for more than an hour and predict doom.
Originally posted by Dulu My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews? What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!) I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..
The reason why they are no longer shilling is because of FTC regulations.
Websites all over the USA are getting fined by the FTC for a lack of online disclosure, which means that you have to state that you are getting paid to give positive feedback, or make positive posts.
When shills come on here and post for their parent companies, they put mmorpg.com in a very precarious position.
That is the reason why.
A company just got fined over 300k USD for making false reviews.
I dont trust reviews positive or negative.
Btw i was negative towards the game and i didnt like it till lvl5. When the game opens it becomes much better even as a themepark. Cyrondiil is fantastic and smooth much better and immersive than gw2 WvWvW.
I dont get it . Zenimax should have scrapped this linear introduced tutorial areas at the start.
How about this, lets just wait until the game comes out + 1-2 months. So the launch won't mean crap, what will be important is who drops off after hitting the level cap AND have to decide to pony up 15 bucks for the 2nd month subscription after the first free months. Tons of people drop off then (myself included most of the time). Then further so after the 2nd month going into the 3rd when those guys who subbed for 1 months regret what they've done as they've been at the level cap for 1+ month without jack to do.
So I think the 3rd month and those guys still playing can tell us how dead it is and how much the game sucks. I'm guessing we will all ding level cap in 2-4 weeks. Anyone think you will have to play longer than 2-3 weeks to hit the level cap?
I believe that most people have been conditioned of how to play and what to expect in MMOs. Most people want to rush to the "endgame" max out their toon, and be drip feed loot.
I believe ESO is a game where you are supposed to immerse yourself into the world and that is where the game shines. A MMORPG where you can Role Play! Become a person in a loving cafted fantasy world. Not play the game a loot simulator.
I'm suspicious of threads created by forum users who's account is created after a beta weekend that saw the media pretty much blast the game.
Nothing suspicious here guys.
Maybe most people had high expectations. The same people also probably didn't go really far in the game.
My first reaction, especially to the combat, was also meh; a bit clunky, you can't really dodge (that double tap is for show), you don't really aim at mobs (auto-lock). But that game grows on you, and although animations could be better, everything else is well done. Now I'm seriously contemplating buying it.
Originally posted by amber-r I would assume that a company the size of bethesda and Zenimax know how to influence public opinion. Just have to wait for them to start, it's really not hard to change opinion of a game. All they have to do is put out advertising, pay all the mmo and game websites for large amounts of advertising so they instantly like your game and pay the youtube celebrities to cover the game. It's pretty industry standard but for some reason they aren't doing it, maybe they are making the mistake of spending the money on the game instead of the payoffs. Anyone that saw the reviews games like Guild wars 2 and ffxiv2 got and that played them will see how this industry works.
Guild Wars 2 is one of the best mmorpg made, so you're wrong in that statement.