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Suspicious of all the bad reviews...

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Comments

  • Let me make this as clear as I can.

     

    By and large the "media" do nothing but lie.  They do it by omission and comission and sometimes by out right making shit up.  They are just so willfully non-observant they don't even understand they are doing it.  It's not a lie if you believe it, Jerry.  Also many of them are just plain corrupt (either for money or ideaology, no difference there really.  Ideaology always comes back to money either yours or someone else's), probably most of them to some degree.

     

    One of the biggest lies of the past 6 decades or so is that of a professionally trained to be objective press whose job is to provide you information.  This is a bald faced lie.  There is a reason many older newspapers in the US have names like "The [City] Democrat".  Its because before this trend they didn't feel like they needed to hide what everyone already knew.  That paper had certain loyalties.  Some papers portrayed themselves are more rounded but there were literally tons of newspapers all over the country that proclaimed their loyalties one way or the other.

     

    And then slowly they all started to pretend to be fair or objective until there was a monolithic professional facade, yet we all still know one obvious fact.  They can't find an objective fact even if was glued to their asses and they are supposedly paid to find things out (hah good joke there, they are really paid to just talk about stuff.  Finding stuff out is for detectives dontchaknow.

     

    The modern age of the internet is erroding this fakery.  Slowly but surely we are returning to ideas of a less modern time.  It is ironic that modern technology is just proving to restore something everyone took for granted as a fact 100 years ago.  By and large the press lies and does little else.

  • MonorojoMonorojo Member UncommonPosts: 411

    This is a niche game through and through.

    Not very hard to understand why the majority don't like it.

     

    That being said me and gf thoroughly enjoyed beta weekend and im going to buy the game for her birthday.

  • Iceman8235Iceman8235 Member UncommonPosts: 205
    You seem to think that your opinion represents a majority and that if anyone doesn't agree with you it's suspicious.  I've been in the ESO beta for a while now and have a hard time believing they've spent over 200 million dollars on the game so far.  It has some of the most basic animations, most bland abilities, and hands down the worst questing I've seen in an mmo in the last 10 years.  In this particular case, most of the reviews I've seen of the game tend to agree with me.  That doesn't always happen, but in this case it did.  That's why it's called an opinion.  I would bet most of my savings that the game will be free to play within a year, especially given the high profile competition it has in Wildstar and the next WoW expansion.  The only saving grace it may or may not have is PvP.  If they do that right they have a chance, but given how the rest of the game is panning out I don't like their odds.
  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    You seem to think that your opinion represents a majority and that if anyone doesn't agree with you it's suspicious.  I've been in the ESO beta for a while now and have a hard time believing they've spent over 200 million dollars on the game so far.  It has some of the most basic animations, most bland abilities, and hands down the worst questing I've seen in an mmo in the last 10 years.  In this particular case, most of the reviews I've seen of the game tend to agree with me.  That doesn't always happen, but in this case it did.  That's why it's called an opinion.  I would bet most of my savings that the game will be free to play within a year, especially given the high profile competition it has in Wildstar and the next WoW expansion.  The only saving grace it may or may not have is PvP.  If they do that right they have a chance, but given how the rest of the game is panning out I don't like their odds.

    I see you didn’t even read whole post. So, it is no wonder that your response has nothing to do with it.

    Or maybe you had hard time comprehending the question? Anyway I heard responses like yours (but on relevant posts) hundreds of times. You didn’t say anything new. But you have expressed your personal opinion, right? It is good! Feel better now?

  • flguy147flguy147 Member UncommonPosts: 507
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    You seem to think that your opinion represents a majority and that if anyone doesn't agree with you it's suspicious.  I've been in the ESO beta for a while now and have a hard time believing they've spent over 200 million dollars on the game so far.  It has some of the most basic animations, most bland abilities, and hands down the worst questing I've seen in an mmo in the last 10 years.  In this particular case, most of the reviews I've seen of the game tend to agree with me.  That doesn't always happen, but in this case it did.  That's why it's called an opinion.  I would bet most of my savings that the game will be free to play within a year, especially given the high profile competition it has in Wildstar and the next WoW expansion.  The only saving grace it may or may not have is PvP.  If they do that right they have a chance, but given how the rest of the game is panning out I don't like their odds.

    I know its your opinion.  But in my opinion its the best questing i have ever played in a MMO and that is about 8-9 years.  It may go free to play because that is the trend now.  Sounds like you may like Wildstar, i couldnt handle 10 minutes in the game before turning it off, Wildstar maybe a great game but definitely not for me.  People like different games and ESO is incredible to me personally as a game concept so far from what i have seen.

  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 Member UncommonPosts: 450

    I think it's a combination of a few different things why the game seems to be getting the worst pre-launch hype I've seen of an MMO.

     

    1.  One of the biggest mmo news sites Massively has a negative agenda towards the game and consistently tries to make it look as bad as possible any chance they get.  Bree to Play, the editor-in-chief has a grudge against the game because she feels Zenimax didn't respect Massively and show them any attention at one of the gaming conventions.  She had a few personal blog posts about this a few years ago, I don't know if they are still up or not.  I think with all the hooplah lately she may have deleted them but I read them at one point and it was pretty obvious she felt a lot of resentment towards Zenimax and ESO.

     

    2.  Despite the masses saying they don't want themepark clones - the vast majority of mmo gamers do want themepark clones.  Just look at the media positivity and hype towards Wildstar.  Endless amounts of complaints I have heard about ESO are because it doesn't stick to typical themepark model conventions.  "No minimap!!  That's stupid!!??"  "I can't see damage numbers on top of mobs!!??  I hate that!!"  "Crafting is too complex!!!" etc etc.

     

    3.  Most people who are in positions of doing reviews for these sites are the wow generation of mmo gamers grown up.  And while ESO is a themepark it does not seem to appeal to the typical wow mmo player or themepark clone mmo gamer.  Again see number 2.

     

    4.  Long history of single player RPG single player games.  Making into an mmo has resulted in many mmo players being unhappy with elements that are too Elder Scrolls like and Elder Scrolls fans being unhappy it's too mmo like.

     

    5.  America more and more loves to see a big name crash and burn.  Whether it's a celebrity, sports team, video game, etc.  If it's a big name, it just results in glee for so many people to see it's demise.

     

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

  • SpeiberbobSpeiberbob Member Posts: 233

    it was fun for me,

    could´nt play rift after it anymore :(

    (Translation: some games get super high scores and dont get me and some soso scores, and they have the package to hook me)

    mediocre Review dont mean you cant enjoy the hell out of the game.

     

     

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  • BlackWatchBlackWatch Member UncommonPosts: 972

    I did play the BETA.  I wasn't overly impressed.  

     

    I know that most people don't like the 'tab-target' style of combat from OTHER MMO's, but the FPS style combat in ESO with the graphics from 1999 really do make this game feel outdated before it's even released.

    I purchased the Imp Ed... and honestly... I wish I hadn't.  Just being honest.

    Unless they change the game dramatically, which I doubt they will... I won't play it much.  Maybe 1-2 months at best.  

    image

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    You seem to think that your opinion represents a majority and that if anyone doesn't agree with you it's suspicious.  I've been in the ESO beta for a while now and have a hard time believing they've spent over 200 million dollars on the game so far.  It has some of the most basic animations, most bland abilities, and hands down the worst questing I've seen in an mmo in the last 10 years.  In this particular case, most of the reviews I've seen of the game tend to agree with me.  That doesn't always happen, but in this case it did.  That's why it's called an opinion.  I would bet most of my savings that the game will be free to play within a year, especially given the high profile competition it has in Wildstar and the next WoW expansion.  The only saving grace it may or may not have is PvP.  If they do that right they have a chance, but given how the rest of the game is panning out I don't like their odds.

    I also wonder, why  have you been in the ESO beta for a while (what kept you there?), if according to your words it has "worst questing I've seen in an mmo in the last 10 years", and other features also not so good?

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    I think it's a combination of a few different things why the game seems to be getting the worst pre-launch hype I've seen of an MMO.

     

    1.  One of the biggest mmo news sites Massively has a negative agenda towards the game and consistently tries to make it look as bad as possible any chance they get.  Bree to Play, the editor-in-chief has a grudge against the game because she feels Zenimax didn't respect Massively and show them any attention at one of the gaming conventions.  She had a few personal blog posts about this a few years ago, I don't know if they are still up or not.  I think with all the hooplah lately she may have deleted them but I read them at one point and it was pretty obvious she felt a lot of resentment towards Zenimax and ESO.

    Weird, I would like to see some sort of evidence.

     

    2.  Despite the masses saying they don't want themepark clones - the vast majority of mmo gamers do want themepark clones.  Just look at the media positivity and hype towards Wildstar.  Endless amounts of complaints I have heard about ESO are because it doesn't stick to typical themepark model conventions.  "No minimap!!  That's stupid!!??"  "I can't see damage numbers on top of mobs!!??  I hate that!!"  "Crafting is too complex!!!" etc etc.

    I rarely see any of those complaints. I see a lot of combat, animations, questing focus, empty world, no reason to group and linearity as the main complaints. Those have actually been a staple for themepark MMORPGs for a very long time now. 

     

    3.  Most people who are in positions of doing reviews for these sites are the wow generation of mmo gamers grown up.  And while ESO is a themepark it does not seem to appeal to the typical wow mmo player or themepark clone mmo gamer.  Again see number 2.

    That could be a possibility. But I also think that there are a lot of themepark themes in the game that a WoW player should be able to wrap their head around.

     

    4.  Long history of single player RPG single player games.  Making into an mmo has resulted in many mmo players being unhappy with elements that are too Elder Scrolls like and Elder Scrolls fans being unhappy it's too mmo like.

    Yeah, I see this as a major issue as well. It's just a really tough IP to tackle from the get go. The expectations for this game are all over the place and it makes it a really difficult game to nail down.

     

    5.  America more and more loves to see a big name crash and burn.  Whether it's a celebrity, sports team, video game, etc.  If it's a big name, it just results in glee for so many people to see it's demise.

    I don't know about this. Schadenfreude has been going on for as long as man has existed. If you look as recently as GW2, that was extremely hyped with admittedly more than a few people that hated it and expressed their negative opinion about it. But has anything this big recently gotten this much negativity? Maybe everything has changed in America since then, but I think it's more likely people just don't like the early game very much so far.

     

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    This is pretty unfair. Why are the bandwagoners not excited instead of upset? It's because word of mouth has become so pervasive that this offering just wasn't that great. You can claim people that don't like the game, because someone told them it was bad are sheep. You can also claim the people like the game, because people told them it was good are sheep. It just so happens that far more people are reporting that it's not so great and word of mouth is spreading.

    I like your post. It gives food for thought. I disagreed with some stuff and some stuff I thought took things a little too far. But I still liked it.

     

  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Let me make this as clear as I can.

     

    By and large the "media" do nothing but lie.  They do it by omission and comission and sometimes by out right making shit up.  They are just so willfully non-observant they don't even understand they are doing it.  It's not a lie if you believe it, Jerry.  Also many of them are just plain corrupt (either for money or ideaology, no difference there really.  Ideaology always comes back to money either yours or someone else's), probably most of them to some degree.

     

    One of the biggest lies of the past 6 decades or so is that of a professionally trained to be objective press whose job is to provide you information.  This is a bald faced lie.  There is a reason many older newspapers in the US have names like "The [City] Democrat".  Its because before this trend they didn't feel like they needed to hide what everyone already knew.  That paper had certain loyalties.  Some papers portrayed themselves are more rounded but there were literally tons of newspapers all over the country that proclaimed their loyalties one way or the other.

     

    And then slowly they all started to pretend to be fair or objective until there was a monolithic professional facade, yet we all still know one obvious fact.  They can't find an objective fact even if was glued to their asses and they are supposedly paid to find things out (hah good joke there, they are really paid to just talk about stuff.  Finding stuff out is for detectives dontchaknow.

     

    The modern age of the internet is erroding this fakery.  Slowly but surely we are returning to ideas of a less modern time.  It is ironic that modern technology is just proving to restore something everyone took for granted as a fact 100 years ago.  By and large the press lies and does little else.

    Love this guy.

    image
  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    I think it's a combination of a few different things why the game seems to be getting the worst pre-launch hype I've seen of an MMO.

     

    1.  One of the biggest mmo news sites Massively has a negative agenda towards the game and consistently tries to make it look as bad as possible any chance they get.  Bree to Play, the editor-in-chief has a grudge against the game because she feels Zenimax didn't respect Massively and show them any attention at one of the gaming conventions.  She had a few personal blog posts about this a few years ago, I don't know if they are still up or not.  I think with all the hooplah lately she may have deleted them but I read them at one point and it was pretty obvious she felt a lot of resentment towards Zenimax and ESO.

     

    2.  Despite the masses saying they don't want themepark clones - the vast majority of mmo gamers do want themepark clones.  Just look at the media positivity and hype towards Wildstar.  Endless amounts of complaints I have heard about ESO are because it doesn't stick to typical themepark model conventions.  "No minimap!!  That's stupid!!??"  "I can't see damage numbers on top of mobs!!??  I hate that!!"  "Crafting is too complex!!!" etc etc.

     

    3.  Most people who are in positions of doing reviews for these sites are the wow generation of mmo gamers grown up.  And while ESO is a themepark it does not seem to appeal to the typical wow mmo player or themepark clone mmo gamer.  Again see number 2.

     

    4.  Long history of single player RPG single player games.  Making into an mmo has resulted in many mmo players being unhappy with elements that are too Elder Scrolls like and Elder Scrolls fans being unhappy it's too mmo like.

     

    5.  America more and more loves to see a big name crash and burn.  Whether it's a celebrity, sports team, video game, etc.  If it's a big name, it just results in glee for so many people to see it's demise.

     

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    I like you.

  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    I think it's a combination of a few different things why the game seems to be getting the worst pre-launch hype I've seen of an MMO.

     

    1.  One of the biggest mmo news sites Massively has a negative agenda towards the game and consistently tries to make it look as bad as possible any chance they get.  Bree to Play, the editor-in-chief has a grudge against the game because she feels Zenimax didn't respect Massively and show them any attention at one of the gaming conventions.  She had a few personal blog posts about this a few years ago, I don't know if they are still up or not.  I think with all the hooplah lately she may have deleted them but I read them at one point and it was pretty obvious she felt a lot of resentment towards Zenimax and ESO.

     

    2.  Despite the masses saying they don't want themepark clones - the vast majority of mmo gamers do want themepark clones.  Just look at the media positivity and hype towards Wildstar.  Endless amounts of complaints I have heard about ESO are because it doesn't stick to typical themepark model conventions.  "No minimap!!  That's stupid!!??"  "I can't see damage numbers on top of mobs!!??  I hate that!!"  "Crafting is too complex!!!" etc etc.

     

    3.  Most people who are in positions of doing reviews for these sites are the wow generation of mmo gamers grown up.  And while ESO is a themepark it does not seem to appeal to the typical wow mmo player or themepark clone mmo gamer.  Again see number 2.

     

    4.  Long history of single player RPG single player games.  Making into an mmo has resulted in many mmo players being unhappy with elements that are too Elder Scrolls like and Elder Scrolls fans being unhappy it's too mmo like.

     

    5.  America more and more loves to see a big name crash and burn.  Whether it's a celebrity, sports team, video game, etc.  If it's a big name, it just results in glee for so many people to see it's demise.

     

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    Had to have a cigarette after this.  Epic post.  Covered everything I was thinking plus taught me a couple of things I didn't know.  The only thing I think you could have added would have been Everquest guilt.

    A LOT of people I know are waiting, hardcore, for Next to come out and they are violently afraid of getting hooked on anything else before that happens.  So when this thing pops up, and it not only seems good but seems like something that might cause them to have to choose come next winter, they immediately start to downplay it in hopes that it will help them ignore it while they wait for Georgeson to return with the grail (no offense to Georgeson or Next cause I love those guys, just saying).

    There are even folks out there feeling this way about Garriott and McQuaids new things.  All of it adds to the din of naysayers that will, no doubt, eventually end up coming around if this thing delivers on what a lot of people THINK is going to happen.

    I can't really say.  All I know is that I haven't heard a lot of opinions that I put any weight into either way based on any kind of real standards.  What did that Angry Mike or Joe or whatever guy say at the end?  "It would be the best thing ever if it were free to play?"  What in the world is that?  That's a whole other argument thrust into what is supposed to be a game review.  One that has little, if nothing, to do with whether the game is actually good or not.

    But that goes back to what you were saying.

    image
  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    This is pretty unfair. Why are the bandwagoners not excited instead of upset? It's because word of mouth has become so pervasive that this offering just wasn't that great. You can claim people that don't like the game, because someone told them it was bad are sheep. You can also claim the people like the game, because people told them it was good are sheep. It just so happens that far more people are reporting that it's not so great and word of mouth is spreading.

    I like your post. It gives food for thought. I disagreed with some stuff and some stuff I thought took things a little too far. But I still liked it.

     

    Let's agree to disagree.

    Have your ever seen people gathering around person telling them that everything is good, wonderful and perfect?

    People gather around person telling them that everything is bad, wrong, requires to be put down.

    Because they all already have experienced some bad things in their past, and readily expect them to happen again.

    Same with players. From many of those point of view, easier to assume that this game will follow typical for latest games way.

    Crowd always tent to believe bad news bearers.

  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,003
    I'll be buying it even if some famous gamer dude says it's crap and lists in details the reason why. Because for me an old chinese quote "A true traveller has no fixed plan, and is not intent on arriving" in other words just be in the world and experiene it without worrying about leveling or finishing the game.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by jesad
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    I think it's a combination of a few different things why the game seems to be getting the worst pre-launch hype I've seen of an MMO.

     

    1.  One of the biggest mmo news sites Massively has a negative agenda towards the game and consistently tries to make it look as bad as possible any chance they get.  Bree to Play, the editor-in-chief has a grudge against the game because she feels Zenimax didn't respect Massively and show them any attention at one of the gaming conventions.  She had a few personal blog posts about this a few years ago, I don't know if they are still up or not.  I think with all the hooplah lately she may have deleted them but I read them at one point and it was pretty obvious she felt a lot of resentment towards Zenimax and ESO.

     

    2.  Despite the masses saying they don't want themepark clones - the vast majority of mmo gamers do want themepark clones.  Just look at the media positivity and hype towards Wildstar.  Endless amounts of complaints I have heard about ESO are because it doesn't stick to typical themepark model conventions.  "No minimap!!  That's stupid!!??"  "I can't see damage numbers on top of mobs!!??  I hate that!!"  "Crafting is too complex!!!" etc etc.

     

    3.  Most people who are in positions of doing reviews for these sites are the wow generation of mmo gamers grown up.  And while ESO is a themepark it does not seem to appeal to the typical wow mmo player or themepark clone mmo gamer.  Again see number 2.

     

    4.  Long history of single player RPG single player games.  Making into an mmo has resulted in many mmo players being unhappy with elements that are too Elder Scrolls like and Elder Scrolls fans being unhappy it's too mmo like.

     

    5.  America more and more loves to see a big name crash and burn.  Whether it's a celebrity, sports team, video game, etc.  If it's a big name, it just results in glee for so many people to see it's demise.

     

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    Had to have a cigarette after this.  Epic post.  Covered everything I was thinking plus taught me a couple of things I didn't know.  The only thing I think you could have added would have been Everquest guilt.

    A LOT of people I know are waiting, hardcore, for Next to come out and they are violently afraid of getting hooked on anything else before that happens.  So when this thing pops up, and it not only seems good but seems like something that might cause them to have to choose come next winter, they immediately start to downplay it in hopes that it will help them ignore it while they wait for Georgeson to return with the grail (no offense to Georgeson or Next cause I love those guys, just saying).

    There are even folks out there feeling this way about Garriott and McQuaids new things.  All of it adds to the din of naysayers that will, no doubt, eventually end up coming around if this thing delivers on what a lot of people THINK is going to happen.

    I can't really say.  All I know is that I haven't heard a lot of opinions that I put any weight into either way based on any kind of real standards.  What did that Angry Mike or Joe or whatever guy say at the end?  "It would be the best thing ever if it were free to play?"  What in the world is that?  That's a whole other argument thrust into what is supposed to be a game review.  One that has little, if nothing, to do with whether the game is actually good or not.

    But that goes back to what you were saying.

    I think, there is some point to it. And may be not only  Everquest related.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    This is pretty unfair. Why are the bandwagoners not excited instead of upset? It's because word of mouth has become so pervasive that this offering just wasn't that great. You can claim people that don't like the game, because someone told them it was bad are sheep. You can also claim the people like the game, because people told them it was good are sheep. It just so happens that far more people are reporting that it's not so great and word of mouth is spreading.

    I like your post. It gives food for thought. I disagreed with some stuff and some stuff I thought took things a little too far. But I still liked it.

     

    Let's agree to disagree.

    Have your ever seen people gathering around person telling them that everything is good, wonderful and perfect?

    People gather around person telling them that everything is bad, wrong, requires to be put down.

    Because they all already have experienced some bad things in their past, and readily expect them to happen again.

    Same with players. From many of those point of view, easier to assume that this game will follow typical for latest games way.

    Crowd always tent to believe bad news bearers.

    Not in my experience. I think that traditionally, hype gets people to act more like bandwagoners FOR the game rather than negative Nancys. We see it again and again. People apologizing and inventing strange situations to defend whatever they are hyped for. I'll give you that it goes both ways, but at least with AAA MMORPGs, I have always seen WAY more positive word of mouth than negative word of mouth pre-launch. And of course the "month after release negativity" sets in.

     

    Even if what you say is true, there really isn't anything wrong with that. If people act very negatively towards the game before launch and a lot of people don't buy it at launch, positive word of mouth can spread post launch. As it did for WoW. I always get the feeling on this site that people don't realize that actually waiting to buy a game after launch to hear the reviews and word of mouth is probably a good thing for the consumer.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,384

    OP

     

    this game, unlike those other games you listed, was based off the hype of another video game from another genre alone.

     

    SWTOR was hyped off of mainly the IP. But also KoTOR

    Warhammer hyped from IP.

    GW2 hyped up from being B2P

    etc etc

     

    ESO is being hype from Skyrim/Oblivion. So many of those Elder Scrolls fans were doing the early attacking of the game during what would normally be considered the hype phase of the game. It ruined a lot of the hype that it could have got.

     

    So out the box it had negative views.

     

    Then when beta hit as well as news on the game design, people got to see what normally happens with bad game designed MMOs. the game design turned people away, and at the same time, it didnt have the blind hype to keep people interested beyond the bad game design.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • KickaxeKickaxe Member UncommonPosts: 167

    Helluva a lot of insane in this thread.

     

    So there were some previews of a game's early levels.  Some of those previews were negative.  Maybe the full game will elicit a different response from those same previewers.  Maybe not.  We can only wait and see.

     

    In the meantime shouldn't we pile as much baggage onto this topic as we can muster?

     

    Ya, I know; it's history repeating itself.

  • otacuotacu Member UncommonPosts: 547
    Originally posted by Dulu

    Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

     

    Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

     

    And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

     

    My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

     

    What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

     

    I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..

    It's quite simple and logic actually.

    Press rate 10 what's actually worth 8. Subtract 2-3 points and you're good to go

    So with ESO a press rating of 6 is actually a 4.

     

    It's either this or a well organized and secretive plot by the competitors combined. I don't know... i think the first options is more likely.

  • freegamesfreegames Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Its true that Elder Scrolls is fine in itself, but many players are looking at the price of the game and get turned off at the start. There are plenty of so called good games that people do not like and plenty of so called bad games that people love. Games are subjective and having a single person like or dislike something may be fine, but the idea you have from a game is simply playing it yourself and judging.

    Many people are simply turned off by the 60 + 15 monthly which is 30 more than most other well known monthly subbed mmos on release. Though it is similar in pricing to some collectors editions and this one has a 80 and 100 collectors edition. Each person has a different view on the pricing, but it looks similar in pricing of other games without a sub.

    They also have to make back their development costs and marketing costs and there are rumors it costs them over 200m + marketing/packaging costs of maybe 50m. As long as they have at least 3 million sub for 4-5 months it should be fine or just play with the numbers until they make half a billion in that year.

    We could always youtube elder scrolls for the lazy.

    There is not plot, although a site that reviews a ton of mmos may judge them with more critical points than another gaming site.

    mmm food
  • Cures80Cures80 Member UncommonPosts: 29

    this is supersimple to answer: zenimax/bethesda/whoever restricted previews to the first lvls - which are the bad side of that great game. i dunno why they did it, but if they would have let out some RvR opinions, we would be in the old over-over-hype game already. And: the only opinions that count are those in the cb-forums, which are overall positive.

    its daoc2 after all - its just many people dont/cant know that yet ;)

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    6.  Herd mentality bandwagonners.  A vast majority of people hating on ESO hate it because their friends hate it, or they read an article that hates it and there is a twisted sense of camaraderie joining in the hate of something.  Or they already hate it, decided to try beta and went into it 100% wanting to hate it so looked for anything to validate their already conceived opinion of the game.

    This is pretty unfair. Why are the bandwagoners not excited instead of upset? It's because word of mouth has become so pervasive that this offering just wasn't that great. You can claim people that don't like the game, because someone told them it was bad are sheep. You can also claim the people like the game, because people told them it was good are sheep. It just so happens that far more people are reporting that it's not so great and word of mouth is spreading.

    I like your post. It gives food for thought. I disagreed with some stuff and some stuff I thought took things a little too far. But I still liked it.

     

    Let's agree to disagree.

    Have your ever seen people gathering around person telling them that everything is good, wonderful and perfect?

    People gather around person telling them that everything is bad, wrong, requires to be put down.

    Because they all already have experienced some bad things in their past, and readily expect them to happen again.

    Same with players. From many of those point of view, easier to assume that this game will follow typical for latest games way.

    Crowd always tent to believe bad news bearers.

    Not in my experience. I think that traditionally, hype gets people to act more like bandwagoners FOR the game rather than negative Nancys. We see it again and again. People apologizing and inventing strange situations to defend whatever they are hyped for. I'll give you that it goes both ways, but at least with AAA MMORPGs, I have always seen WAY more positive word of mouth than negative word of mouth pre-launch. And of course the "month after release negativity" sets in.

     

    Even if what you say is true, there really isn't anything wrong with that. If people act very negatively towards the game before launch and a lot of people don't buy it at launch, positive word of mouth can spread post launch. As it did for WoW. I always get the feeling on this site that people don't realize that actually waiting to buy a game after launch to hear the reviews and word of mouth is probably a good thing for the consumer.

    I can respect your experience, but disagree with you conclusion.

    I agree that hype gets people to act more like bandwagoners. And we have seen that for all recent games. But why it didn't happen similarly to ESO? We can see (if not more than positive) much more negative posts than  for other AAA games?

    Could you intelligently explain this to me? If you would say,  because game is bad, I will tell you that:

    1. Even absolutely bad games have their hype times.

    2. Negative posts started long before any  reliable information about game was available.

    3. If you would check just this forum ESO activity for every day of last week, you would see that it more than 4 times exceeds NEXT popularity, but is not even among 7 top voted games.

    4. If some of players do not like this game why so many of those are on crusade to sway others  their way? Why do they care? Or it is all about winning? Negatives against positives!

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

    I can respect your experience, but disagree with you conclusion.

    I agree that hype gets people to act more like bandwagoners. And we have seen that for all recent games. But why it didn't happen similarly to ESO? We can see (if not more then positive) much more negative posts then  for other AAA games?

    Could you intelligently explain this to me? If you would say,  because game is bad, I will tell you that:

    1. Even absolutely bad games have their hype times.

    Hmm... I don't know.  It all depends on what you consider a bad game. Did Aliens: Colonial Marines have a hype time? I thought it flopped pretty hard. Without knowing what you think is a bad game, it's really difficult to address the claim that really bad games get hyped before launch. I would personally prefer that bad games get awful hype before launch.

     

    2. Negative posts started long before any  reliable information about game was available.

    Negative posts started around the time they announced faction locks. At least that's how I recall it. Before that, I think people were generally happy about the idea of an Elder Scrolls MMORPG. There were some detractors, but overall it seemed pretty positive before then. The idea of the developer choosing to restrict races to certain factions and then separating the world into 3 parts made a lot of Elder Scrolls fans upset. I was one of those people back then but it was a long time ago.

     

    3. If you would check just this forum ESO activity for every day of last week, you would see that it more than 4 times exceeds NEXT popularity, but is not even among 7 top voted games.

    ESO is releasing in less than 2 months. EQNext does not have a release date. EQNext:Landmark doesn't even have a release date yet. People are voting this game down because they were unimpressed during the limited time they had in beta.

     

    4. If some of players do not like this game why so many of those are on crusade to sway others  their way? Why do they care? Or it is all about winning? Negatives against positives!

    Why do some players that like the game try and persuade people to like it? Why do they care? Or is it all about winning? Positives against negatives! There really are 2 sides to that coin. Some people will act reasonable and some will come up with some cockimamy idea about conspiracy theories to make themselves feel better. On both sides.

    I'm not saying the game is bad. I personally think the combat needs a lot of work, I don't like the quest grind style of PvE and I'm not very happy with their payment model. I am still wondering why holding this opinion is so abrasive to so many people. I'd say the prudent thing to do with any game, not just this game, is to wait until after release when there is a lot more information about it.

     

    They need to get the info about the later game out. They can either show us gameplay videos of it or they can release the NDA. I don't think I've seen a single dungeon yet. In my opinion, it's really their PR team that is screwing them over the most. That is, unless there is something utterly wrong with endgame.

  • Species5021Species5021 Member Posts: 44

    I think it mostly depends if you are an elder scrolls fan or not. If you are, you will find the that the game already makes a lot more sense and know a little bit about the story which helps with immersion quite a lot so it becomes more enjoyable.
     (yes i know ESO is not made by the same branch that made skyrim etc but its close enough)

    Now imagine being new to a rather complex style of game and playing it as an MMO to boot. A lot of people wont get it and immediatly start raging about it.

    Second is the free to play option, im not a fan of it personally, but im not a fan of the easy conversion system the USA does every time either. An 80 Dollar collectors edition will cost me in Europe the equivalent of 108 dollars. So the money grab has a lot of hangers on to which creates negative publicity.

    Then you have a lot negative publicity coming in from people who played Skyrim, loved the world and how they did things and when they didnt see that in ESO it automatically sucks.

    Granted ESO is not perfect. Not at all even. But what it did for me after playing the beta was make me excited again for logging in the next time thinking what i was going to do and and what would happen next.

    I played to level 15 as a redguard nightblade, focussing on dual wield heavy armor with stealth skills and assasination skills to jump out of the shadows and debilitate, bleed and execute the enemy.

    This worked perfectly for me solo and i did Spindleclutch (early level dungeon) with a self healing tank and a 2h handed dragon knight and it was pretty challenging but our skills complemented each other, even on the boss fight. They would Aoe and draw agro while i stunned and put the healers and evokers off balance and taking them out on low hp with my execute ability. Working our way trough the enemy untill the last man of theirs was standing with the most hp.

    At the boss fight we had the boss switching randomly between us, putting us out of business with stuns and knockdowns and a harsh one hit kill AoE which you could live trough if you had put every single level stat into health instead of magicka or stamina.

    As the rogue i ended up tanking to, because of my dps she took notice of me quite often at which point i would jump back into the shadows for 4 seconds during which the boss did not stop looking for me, just waiting patiently for me to come back into the light giving our self healing tank the chance to heal up.

    We killed her in the end and we got some good quest xp and a skill point next to some blue loot (which isnt all that better ten some crafted stufff)

    But it has downsides i could rage about and i propably would have if i had been using social media.

    You don't want to compare it to Skyrim or even Oblivion. To turn the the elder scrolls into an mmo they had to make sacrifices.

    The combat for one, instead of free targeting and being able to hit separate parts of the body. Now it highlights an enemy in a red body glow which shows what you will hit if you start swinging. The first thing that would suffer from this is archery, its a shade of its glory from what it is in Skyrim and the skills you get with it are sub par in my opinion. I cant see how with the current system you could do reliable damage to an enemy and it shows in the support skills aswell. Nothing out of the main archery skill tree which is just the weapon skills and passives gives bonus to archery. So its basically useless for now, maybe support when you reach level 15 and get weapon swap.

    My second gripe is the sorcerer, i personally do not like it and it feels like they had  no idea how to put the class together. The class is already limited by the ability bar and its abilities are just awkward, the combat for a caster is not fluid at all.

    Guess what classes i played the most in oblivion and skyrim, a mage and archer. So even though to me it feels like they raped both to the moon and back i switched to something else and thoroughly enjoyed myself.

    tl;dr.

    If you are a fan you liek, if you are not a fan you will not liek and spout heresy about it.

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