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PvP in EOS

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by spizz
    Originally posted by BeansnBread

    I've played it in multiple beta weekends. You haven't seen well over 100 people in the same battle with 10-20 siege weapons in GW2?

    No, I have not seen siege weapon battles with stationary and none stationary small and big siege weapons. What I have seen in GW2 was a huge group following a leader like lemmings and capturing facilities in a very short time. It was actually boring.

    Oh, you must not have played it very much then. Because what you describe about ESO PvP happens all the time in GW2.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....

    realmpoints

    trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..

     

    it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...

    Which makes it more like GW2, not DAoC. 

    No, not even close...  In Gw2 i stuck with battlegrounds PvP... Because the rvr pvp never felt right to me in the first place... Must have been how the areas where build and the spelleffects cluttering my whole screen....  For some reason this game comes very close to what i loved from the mechanics of RvR in DAoC...

     

    and i am sure the team will realise soon enough that they need to add a system of endgame character progression...  The PvP trees are not really enough to keep people entertained...  I am pretty sure they will add something sattisfying when the time is right post release

     

    in the long run, i also hope they add some small group PvP instanced content....  In general those work great as a quick diversion from PvE... Just a quick game or two...  Maybe in an adventure setting ...

    So why exactly did it feel right? The combat system is nothing like DAoC, CC is nothing like DAoC, leveling is nothing like DAoC, it has no meaningful PvP progresssion. To me it sounds nothing like DAoC. Please explain.

    Its indeed hard to explain, my question is simple, did you play it?

     

    well, i did, and it totally surprised me, the combat system fell in its place and  it felt like it was build with one single thing in mind... Group based PvP...  But  i think the things that felt most akin DAoC where the zone design and the fact that spelleffects didnt clutter the whole screen..   And there where offcourse the elder scrolls that have the same function as the relics,...  There are also realmranks..  I think  the imperial city will be kind of Darkness falls alike... 

     

    You reLly need to experience it for yourself, but it just felt more like Daoc then Gw2 has ever felt..

     

    not surprisingly, since some of the core developers come from Daoc, however i agree with you that i cant u derstand why they still have leftsome lessons learned from daoc out of the game....

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • spizzspizz BlackForrestPosts: 2,587Member
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by spizz
    Originally posted by BeansnBread

    I've played it in multiple beta weekends. You haven't seen well over 100 people in the same battle with 10-20 siege weapons in GW2?

    No, I have not seen siege weapon battles with stationary and none stationary small and big siege weapons. What I have seen in GW2 was a huge group following a leader like lemmings and capturing facilities in a very short time. It was actually boring.

    Oh, you must not have played it very much then. Because what you describe about ESO PvP happens all the time in GW2.

     

    O really, if you say so ok I did not find such battles and I did not see such battles on any gw2 youtube video.

    But GW2 was for me a disappointment in general, so everyone has a different game taste.

  • sgelsgel HeraklionPosts: 1,087Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    the combat system fell in its place and  it felt like it was build with one single thing in mind... Group based PvP... 

    Huh?... what do you base that on?

    and please don't say "spell effects don't clutter my screen", that's something you get used to.

    GW2 made a noble effort to re-create DAOC RvR... it just didn't have the same meaning behind it.

     

    ..Cake..

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keithian

    Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box. 

    -"No idiots go to that keep"

    -"Why should I listen to leaders if the leaders aren't doing jack S%$T."

    etc.

    I really hope they have a way to let people who want to try not feel like between the rants and the overwhelming nature of PVP in general in a huge zone, that there is a way to break people in. Maybe PVPers will feel like the only way to do that is to jump right into the fire and die and learn. Thats intimidating to a lot of PVErs I think. I always felt more comfortable in scenarios which were tightly controlled and easier to dive into without feeling overwhelmed.

    Any suggestions? lol

    I can understand and sympathize with how you feel here, but with the game being brand new and all (at least to the majority of people) I take comfort knowing that most of us will be learning the ins and outs together. It's quite a different beast compared to an mmorpg that's been out for years, with a long-standing veteran community. We just have to hope it takes awhile before the cold, calculating elitism sets in, heh.

    image
  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,482Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cures80

    there IS pvp progression. there are veteran Points, ranks, currency.  you can become the fukin emperor. realm boni, etc etc.

    its, as many (all that played) say: daoc2. and its gooood.

    Played DAOC since day 1, still subbed to it now. No it s not. It can t be with 2 fundamental things. The combat sucks for rvr, and the classes don t have defined roles. Without those, it will become a mess like GW2 is.

  • Heavy-armor-warriorHeavy-armor-warrior Valporaiso, INPosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by Cures80

    there IS pvp progression. there are veteran Points, ranks, currency.  you can become the fukin emperor. realm boni, etc etc.

    its, as many (all that played) say: daoc2. and its gooood.

    Played DAOC since day 1, still subbed to it now. No it s not. It can t be with 2 fundamental things. The combat sucks for rvr, and the classes don t have defined roles. Without those, it will become a mess like GW2 is.

    Oh snap!

    New fanboy vs old fanboy

     

    WHO WILL HAVE VICTORY!?

     

    Just kidding.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keithian

    Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box. 

    Any suggestions? lol

    Join a good guild.

    honestly that's it.

    Do some research, get a feel for the people and when you find some like minded people, join them.

  • shamallshamall Imperial Beach, CAPosts: 516Member Common
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by Cures80

    there IS pvp progression. there are veteran Points, ranks, currency.  you can become the fukin emperor. realm boni, etc etc.

    its, as many (all that played) say: daoc2. and its gooood.

    Played DAOC since day 1, still subbed to it now. No it s not. It can t be with 2 fundamental things. The combat sucks for rvr, and the classes don t have defined roles. Without those, it will become a mess like GW2 is.

    Classes do have defined roles. Its just up to the player to make them. If you want to make a tank that can actually taunt, unlike GW2, you can. If you want to make a pure healer that actually has good heals instead of the small crappy heals like GW2 then you can.

    The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....

    realmpoints

    trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..

     

    it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...

    Which makes it more like GW2, not DAoC. 

    No, not even close...  In Gw2 i stuck with battlegrounds PvP... Because the rvr pvp never felt right to me in the first place... Must have been how the areas where build and the spelleffects cluttering my whole screen....  For some reason this game comes very close to what i loved from the mechanics of RvR in DAoC...

     

    and i am sure the team will realise soon enough that they need to add a system of endgame character progression...  The PvP trees are not really enough to keep people entertained...  I am pretty sure they will add something sattisfying when the time is right post release

     

    in the long run, i also hope they add some small group PvP instanced content....  In general those work great as a quick diversion from PvE... Just a quick game or two...  Maybe in an adventure setting ...

    So why exactly did it feel right? The combat system is nothing like DAoC, CC is nothing like DAoC, leveling is nothing like DAoC, it has no meaningful PvP progresssion. To me it sounds nothing like DAoC. Please explain.

    Its indeed hard to explain, my question is simple, did you play it?

     

    well, i did, and it totally surprised me, the combat system fell in its place and  it felt like it was build with one single thing in mind... Group based PvP...  But  i think the things that felt most akin DAoC where the zone design and the fact that spelleffects didnt clutter the whole screen..   And there where offcourse the elder scrolls that have the same function as the relics,...  There are also realmranks..  I think  the imperial city will be kind of Darkness falls alike... 

     

    You reLly need to experience it for yourself, but it just felt more like Daoc then Gw2 has ever felt..

     

    not surprisingly, since some of the core developers come from Daoc, however i agree with you that i cant u derstand why they still have leftsome lessons learned from daoc out of the game....

    But I did play it. All players did was mindless zerging, which reminded me much of GW2. The alliance points you get seem more like honor/arena points from WoW than RPS. I don't see how this can come even close to DAoC. It is completely different and not in a good way.

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    I don't count it like GW2 for a few reasons. GW2 keeps are tiny boxes. GW2 total map size is like a closet next to ESO. Its much more on scale with DAOC in terms of epic feeling.
  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by Cures80

    there IS pvp progression. there are veteran Points, ranks, currency.  you can become the fukin emperor. realm boni, etc etc.

    its, as many (all that played) say: daoc2. and its gooood.

    Played DAOC since day 1, still subbed to it now. No it s not. It can t be with 2 fundamental things. The combat sucks for rvr, and the classes don t have defined roles. Without those, it will become a mess like GW2 is.

    In ESO defense at least you can make a define role with your skills. If you want to be a dedicated healer, dps or tank the option is there. GW2 was very blurred and never really had dedicated roles.

  • Furion-HunterFurion-Hunter kingston upon thamesPosts: 43Member

    The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.

     Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point.  You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.

     

    Am i the only one who may be thinking this?

     

    p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Furion-Hunter

    The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.

     Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point.  You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.

     

    Am i the only one who may be thinking this?

     

    p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol

    I think you nailed it so at least I can see where you are coming from. It's a bit of a zerg/cap on to the next zerg/cap, on to the next. People levied these complaints against GW2 a lot in the beginning and I see that exact same issue in this variant. GW2 also suffered from really bad stuff like culling which I haven't seen yet in this game which is nice. But the overall sense is very similar.

     

    The small scale PvP seems a bit better than the large scale PvP IMO. But for me personally, I'm finding myself not liking how the combat feels a whole lot right now.

     

    We'll see what happens later, but right now at least, it really feels very zergy and that caps don't really actually matter a whole lot. 

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....

    realmpoints

    trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..

     

    it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...

    Not true, at least one player maxed out on my server. He was RR12 before there even was a RR12.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by Furion-Hunter

    The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.

     Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point.  You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.

     

    Am i the only one who may be thinking this?

     

    p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol

    I understand your concerns but these do not happen when played at the top level in the game.

    In GW2, on the T1 servers (Blackgate here), the guilds wold always leave a couple of defenders at the keeps. There would also be scouts monitoring enemy movements. A Zerg would almost never slip by without people knowing. Strategies such as chain invis or teleports from Mesmers were very common to reach keeps undetected. Point is when people play this seriously, an enemy isn't simply gonna walk up to a keep.

    People will also set up TS to communicate. For the serious campaigns, they will set up a common TS.

    As for when people go to sleep, the WvW guilds would hand down maps to guilds which were taking over. We had guilds covering various timezones everyday. It was very organised and if the AvA here is better than that in WvW, you can be sure people will get even more serious and organised with it.

    image
  • AreQAreQ JaroslawPosts: 7Member
    Originally posted by Furion-Hunter

    The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.

     Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point.  You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.

     

    Am i the only one who may be thinking this?

     

    p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol

    My thouhts exactly in GW2 (thats one of the reasons why i stoped playing) and here too.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by spizz
    GW2 is a joke against this =)

     

    I wouldnt call GW2 a joke, but one thing that I really did not like in GW2 PvP is that you are basically fighting your own faction all the time because it's identical to your own. Also that the GW2 PvP is in this separate "mists" PvP magical dimension. TESO PvP feels more immersive with different factions and the PvP action being in the same world basically where you run around as a character.

     

    Though, how does this work with the "megaserver" tech? I thought the megaserver is just a cool word for "shards" or "instances" - does the game somehow remember my Cyrodiil the next time I log in or what? I'm not sure if I like the whole megaserver concept because it just sounds like sharded system. I guess it's under NDA so it cant be discussed here, bleargh.

  • AmegashieAmegashie naPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    one thing that I really did not like in GW2 PvP is that you are basically fighting your own faction all the time because it's identical to your own. Also that the GW2 PvP is in this separate "mists" PvP magical dimension. TESO PvP feels more immersive with different factions and the PvP action being in the same world basically where you run around as a character.

    ESO PvP takes place in a separate zone, exactly the same as GW2's WvW. Only difference is that it is one huge zone rather than 4 smallish ones ( 5, if you count the recent Edge of the Mists thing ).

  • VaporsVapors Fr.Posts: 407Member Uncommon

    ESO PVP has ZERGS running over ZERGS, but their RvR is based on a war beetween their races, why shouldnt there be Zergs oO?

    The point is that the Zerging in ESO just look epic since the sounds, the whole battleweapons and the area itself are very well made. In some cases I even felt I am watching a movie. Its pretty similar to GW2 but, GW2 just had not the right feeling and got bored after 1 hour, don't know how to describe why I had this feeling..

  • fs23otmfs23otm Winter Haven, FLPosts: 293Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn

     

    Though, how does this work with the "megaserver" tech? I thought the megaserver is just a cool word for "shards" or "instances" - does the game somehow remember my Cyrodiil the next time I log in or what? I'm not sure if I like the whole megaserver concept because it just sounds like sharded system. I guess it's under NDA so it cant be discussed here, bleargh.

    The PVP has "campaigns" which are basically instances. They have there good and bad points. The good is that you can select a "home" campaign, however you can still go into other campaigns. This also means PVP guilds can pick the same campaign so that they can play against each other. The bad, you can change you home campaign, which means you will get some people who hope to the one where their alliance is winning. There is a timeout on the change however. 

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Amegashie
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    one thing that I really did not like in GW2 PvP is that you are basically fighting your own faction all the time because it's identical to your own. Also that the GW2 PvP is in this separate "mists" PvP magical dimension. TESO PvP feels more immersive with different factions and the PvP action being in the same world basically where you run around as a character.

    ESO PvP takes place in a separate zone, exactly the same as GW2's WvW. Only difference is that it is one huge zone rather than 4 smallish ones ( 5, if you count the recent Edge of the Mists thing ).

    I thought it was supposed to be in the middle of the map? In GW2 it's in this separate dimension whatever. Technically I guess it's the same system in TESO but GW2 felt a lot more gamey and less immersive for how it's presented to the player imo.

  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 mesa, AZPosts: 430Member

    Here is my question.  In a giant open world PvP area (Cyrodil) - how is a game supposed to prevent zergs?  The only real way to prevent zergs is by limiting how many people can be a part of certain things (in essence instanced battlegrounds) which is exactly what a lot of people don't want either.

     

    It's up to a group to use strategy as opposed to zerging - it's not the game's responsibility to make groups use their brains.  The only fix to that in the past has been exactly what most people into pvp hate more than anything (again instanced battlegrounds).

     

    There is no perfect PvP environment.  It's either instanced and controlled or open with the possibility of zerg mentality groups. 

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member

    It looks like a copy of WvWvW Gw2 except

    - the area is bigger in ESO (unless you combine the 4 different maps of GW2)

    - you have different races in the 3 factions (but the preorder will mess this up)

    - the map is completely mirrored the keeps have no charisma. The Gw2 Keeps are better in this regard.

    - you can have the trinity in ESO

     

    Overall it's about the same. It's not DAOC2 by a long shot..... it's more like "RvR Basic Edition"

    For a RvR indepth experience we have to wait more

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....

    realmpoints

    trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..

     

    it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...

    Which makes it more like GW2, not DAoC. 

    Cant wait till the NDA drop but is nothing like GW2, it really have a DaoC/Warhammer feeling in a good way, GW2 WvWvW was bad from many points of view. Definitely the PvP is the strong point of TESO, strong enough to knock you out.  

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