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Angry Joe reviews ESO Beta

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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RealmLordsKen
    The problem I have with reviews even from credible sources, is that many are based on the type of game and gameplay that the reviewer *enjoys*.  That's subjective.

     

    As such, unless I like the same things that the reviewer likes, the review is pretty much useless as a tool to determine if I will like the game.

     

    +1

  • jpaprockijpaprocki Davisville, WVPosts: 272Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nevulus
    That's why I am a fan of his reviews. He calls it as it is, always has & always will.

    Good for him.  I disagree.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • neroistneroist Chatsworth, GAPosts: 24Member
    Yeah AngryJoe doesn't strike me as a TES lore buff nor an avid ingame reader of all the books. It is almost like a "dude bro"  thoughts of the game to level 9.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RealmLordsKen
    The problem I have with reviews even from credible sources, is that many are based on the type of game and gameplay that the reviewer *enjoys*.  That's subjective.

     

    As such, unless I like the same things that the reviewer likes, the review is pretty much useless as a tool to determine if I will like the game.

     

    I disagree. Reviews are not useless - even if you don't like the same things as the reviewer - as long as they are clear. 

    Some examples. Collision detection; AJ prefers it, no big deal for e.g. Iselin. You can decide. Doesn't invalidate the review. 

    Another obvious one: art style. There is video footage and you can decide whether you like it or not.

    Mob combat is another. AJ feels a lot of it is pretty bland - you can see multiple kills and decide for yourself. 

    There are things AJ feels go against ES lore - again you can decide. (And it won't be a few rogue defectors who opt for a certain race - in time there will be lots). You can decide however what it means to you.

    And so on.

    And if you watch / listen to enough reviews you can create an impression.

    Now there are people saying the reviews don't go into x, y and z, the reviews are to limited, shallow etc. but those I have seen are because Zenimax have limited what can be said. So there usefulness at this moment in time is limited - but they are not useless.   

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.

    Unless it gets exploited to create traffic jams where 3 tanks with out of sight healer support spamming AOE heals can hold back 300... sorry, been there...done that....did NOT get the T-shirt.

     

     

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by inemosz

    Apparently, Massively labeled ESO as "absolutely nothing special". I really didn't expect that the press are so determined to bash the game this hard. I thought that it'll be the otherwise.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/07/the-elder-scrolls-online-beta-is-absolutely-nothing-special/

    Because its true image

    Well hopefully there is something special in the Cyro PvP.  From the reviews I've seen, it looks like the PvE is just another themepark with no attempt at a virtual world with consequences or even risk vs reward.

     

    I do like the gfx and the mouse look combat control...if they could have just dropped some of the themepark linear quest crap.

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Angry Joe has always been more of a "console" type player, if you know what mean...
  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    Am I the only person left that reviews my own games by buying them and playing them?  Are there really that many sheep on the edge of their seat waiting to be told to buy something because a reviewer said it was good or to stay away because a reviewer said it was bad?   I genuinely feel sorry for people with the mentality that they need to constantly be told what to like and not like.

     

     

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.

    Unless it gets exploited to create traffic jams where 3 tanks with out of sight healer support spamming AOE heals can hold back 300... sorry, been there...done that....did NOT get the T-shirt.

     

    From a game designer point of view, this example isn't an exploit, nor is it a bad 'design'.

    This is just one of the three 'mitigation / damage / healing' numbers needing adjustment.

     

    For the record, I like AJ's direct no-BS style and calling it like it is.

    For the disaster that was the TW:Rome2, AJ's review was the only one that was actually reflective of the quality.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Am I the only person left that reviews my own games by buying them and playing them?  Are there really that many sheep on the edge of their seat waiting to be told to buy something because a reviewer said it was good or to stay away because a reviewer said it was bad?   I genuinely feel sorry for people with the mentality that they need to constantly be told what to like and not like.

     

     

     So do tell how do you make a decision on which games to buy? Do you watch the CGI trailer? Do you go to the website of the game and read what the market people have written?   Do you just blindly buy a game you think looks good? Choosing to buy because a reviewer tell you to is dumb. I don't think anyone in here has said that.  Using it as a tool to try and guess about what a game is going to be like is where its most useful.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.

    Unless it gets exploited to create traffic jams where 3 tanks with out of sight healer support spamming AOE heals can hold back 300... sorry, been there...done that....did NOT get the T-shirt.

     

     

     That is not a collision detection problem though. That is a designing issues.  Oh and where did you see 3 tanks hold back 300 people in a battle? A lot of MMO's have gone without them so I am curious

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by funyahns
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.

    Unless it gets exploited to create traffic jams where 3 tanks with out of sight healer support spamming AOE heals can hold back 300... sorry, been there...done that....did NOT get the T-shirt.

     That is not a collision detection problem though. That is a designing issues.  Oh and where did you see 3 tanks hold back 300 people in a battle? A lot of MMO's have gone without them so I am curious

    I want to know what that game is too. 

  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAPosts: 985Member Uncommon

    Lol i love this guys reviews. I have agreed with most of them too. The best line of the review is that the game is a cheap knockoff of Tes games. Had my laughing so hard. Might as well go play Skyrim until it goess f2p. I just picked up Eldercsrolls Anthology. So i now own all the Tes games and it will keep me busy until this goes f2p. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by funyahns
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Even if you don't agree with him on the subject it is going to give you a pretty good general view about what more casual type mmo players are going to thing.  Its not difficult to track a record of what reviewers have done and see how much there viewpoints line up with yours. Oh and collision detection is a pretty useful thing for pvp game play.

    Unless it gets exploited to create traffic jams where 3 tanks with out of sight healer support spamming AOE heals can hold back 300... sorry, been there...done that....did NOT get the T-shirt.

     

     

     That is not a collision detection problem though. That is a designing issues.  Oh and where did you see 3 tanks hold back 300 people in a battle? A lot of MMO's have gone without them so I am curious

    Warhammer Online...fights on the ramps going up to the Lord's room.

     

    I was primarily a healer there. We could position ourselves above to be immune to ranged fire while we spam-healed our tanks using shield wall. If done right it could be done almost indefinitely.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
     

    Warhammer Online...fights on the ramps going up to the Lord's room.

     

    I was primarily a healer there. We could position ourselves above to be immune to ranged fire while we spam-healed our tanks using shield wall. If done right it could be done almost indefinitely.

    If we take the logic of 'this game was awful because of this design', GW2's level scaling is awful because it was awful in ES4:Obvilion.

    The example above is not a game design problem, it is a number problem which is way more easily adjusted.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Let's say it in this way: where there is smoke, there is usually a fire. If you watch and read the many previews, I'd say the majority of them is as critical as AngryJoe, and usually all on the same issues.

    Sure, it could all be a big conspiracy of ALL the media guys to bring your most beloved MMO down. But then, how likely is that really? ;)

    As to AngryJoe: I watched most of his videos, I follow him for years, and I think he is one of the most respectful people in the entire tester scene. If you really have a low opinion of him because of his gaudy comedy style he applies sometimes or because simply you have a different opinion, you know very little about humans at all. I respect and trust AngryJoe A LOT; I think he is an honorable man. He never makes up stuff, he always emphasizes what is his opinion, he never sells opinion as "objective", he always tries to see many angles, gives games another chance. No, he is one of the most fair and respecful people out there! If you don't see that, you simply don't know what the heck you're talking about!

    I tend to quote people that make sense, like the poster above, he is spot on.

     

    Let's stop for a second, catch our breath. Now think about it, if it is obvious that someone did NOT watch the entire video, just ignore them, they're trolling - as is extremely popular on this forum. 

     

    Joe is a typical gamer, NOT a full-on MMO enthusiast. Those who follow Joe know this already, he has stated MANY MANY times that to review a MMO takes a lot of time, which he does not have since he has to spread his time among many games/consoles/board games (yes he is a board game enthusiast). 

    To review a MMO takes a Preview, First Impression, Review, and Revisit one year later. That's give or take 4 articles/videos which he can't always do. So he is giving you exactly that, the perspective of an average gamer.

     

    Joe stated this is just a preview, he also stated this was just a recording of him and his friends screwing around in-game for a bit and having fun. Yet people come on here and call him unprofessional and bash him because he was critical of their beloved FOTMG (Flavor of the Month Game) and continue to ridicule an internet personality because he was having fun in-game. Heavens forbid someone is actually having FUN in a game /sarcasm. Do you see how ridiculous it sounds when put into perspective? lol... 

     

    Get over yourselves, these are just games, i.e. entertainment. As much as I enjoy Joe's reviews, his tongue-in-cheek style can be a bit over the top, but i understand that's what his younger core audience enjoy, so I just laugh it off and move on. I also understand Joe did not grow up enjoying hardcore MMOs like I did, so some of his views I may disagree with when it comes to MMOs.

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon
    It's early impressions....no matter what you may think of the game or the impressions it is not a god damn review...are people that retarded that they labely everything a review?
  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RealmLordsKen
    The problem I have with reviews even from credible sources, is that many are based on the type of game and gameplay that the reviewer *enjoys*.  That's subjective.

     

    As such, unless I like the same things that the reviewer likes, the review is pretty much useless as a tool to determine if I will like the game.

     

    Hence why anyone who bothers watching a reviewer and listening to his opinions should, at the least, generally agree with him or her. Otherwise what is the point of listening to someones opinion of a product. There seems to be a lot of assumption in this thread that anyone who agrees with AJ is immediately going to buy or not buy a product he is reviewing like his opinion is the end all. I generally agree with Joe on the games he reviews so I respect his opinion and agree with him regarding ESO. I have been invited to all the betas since I won the invite from a person on this site and can say I had no interest in going back after the first trial. Sure we can't all agree on everything so my advice would be to stop questioning their credibility if you don't agree with their opinions and find someones who closely mirrors your own. Just because Joe may not recommend a game does not mean I will not give it a shot myself if the game looks good enough, I am just curious to hear what others think sometimes. Ya know kinda like coming to a discussion board and reading others opinions.... This was not directed towards you just people in general.

     

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Am I the only person left that reviews my own games by buying them and playing them?  Are there really that many sheep on the edge of their seat waiting to be told to buy something because a reviewer said it was good or to stay away because a reviewer said it was bad?   I genuinely feel sorry for people with the mentality that they need to constantly be told what to like and not like.

     

     

    Case and point. I feel sorry for those that attack others because they enjoy listening to  others opinions. But carry on.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,783Member Uncommon
    Angry Joe nailed it with that video. The only thing i disagree is that he is talking about Free to Play. I would prefer the GW2 model. Buy the box and play for free with a small and decent cash shop (emphazis on small and decent), and of course full blown expansions or DLC in the same way the other TES games do.

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Iselin
     

    Warhammer Online...fights on the ramps going up to the Lord's room.

     

    I was primarily a healer there. We could position ourselves above to be immune to ranged fire while we spam-healed our tanks using shield wall. If done right it could be done almost indefinitely.

    If we take the logic of 'this game was awful because of this design', GW2's level scaling is awful because it was awful in ES4:Obvilion.

    The example above is not a game design problem, it is a number problem which is way more easily adjusted.

    It was a direct consequence of collision detection and narrow chokepoints...could it have been done differently? Anything is possible. ESO, for example, has no lord fight at the end of a keep siege (public knowledge, not NDA) nor second floor with narrow stairs.

     

    Then all you'd have to deal with is the extra lag introduced by the collision detection.

     

    Anyway...see you all... got things to do for the next several hours :)

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Am I the only person left that reviews my own games by buying them and playing them?  Are there really that many sheep on the edge of their seat waiting to be told to buy something because a reviewer said it was good or to stay away because a reviewer said it was bad?   I genuinely feel sorry for people with the mentality that they need to constantly be told what to like and not like.

     

     

    I only review my own games when the company offers a free trial. It is a complete waste of money and silly decision to purchase a full priced game without having any knowledge on how good it is and then finding out that it is bad (if the game turns out to be bad). Unless they guarantee a full refund if i dont like the game, i am not wasting money without playing the game before making a decision.

     

    So yeah, if they dont offer trials then the smartest thing to do is watch honest reviews and first looks from people who arent blind fanbois or paid off, instead of just making a blind purchase based on the ip.

    image
  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIPosts: 328Member Common

    Watched it and have watched some of his other reviews in the past. This guy is about the exact opposite of what my SO and I are when it comes to being gamers. He wants action, action, action all the time. I am guessing that's why he liked GW2 so much. I, for one, NEVER understood what was appealing at -all- about that game. I bought it, got to level 20, was too bored and underwhelmed by everything to ever log back in. So there it sits on my hard drive. To be fair, that's where about 90% of the MMOs that have come out in recent years sit; RIFT, AOC, CO, FFXIV (yep, ARR version), post-Cata WoW, STO... on and on and on the list goes.  I still play EQ2 casually and LOTRO once in a great while. More often than not, though, these days I'm playing survival mode Minecraft with my SO and some other single player games because MMOs have turned into "WHERE'S ENDGAME? SPEED LEVEL TO ENDGAME IN 3 DAYS LOL" and that, to me, is utterly dull. I like the leveling and exploring process in MMOs more than anything else, and when that becomes a trivial aspect, I don't play the MMO.

    Now, I'm not saying his style of gaming is wrong or bad, but the simple fact AngryJoe and crew DON'T like it is why I am going to give this a fair shot. In particular, one comment made offhand about it feeling like vanilla WoW Barrens and how that 'sucked'.

    Vanilla WoW Barrens back at original release was one of my all time favorite zones. I -liked- the big, empty feel and the fact you DIDN'T run into action action action and a ton of mobs every other step. It -felt- like you were on a savanna of grassland that stretched for miles. So hey, you know what? I'm going to give ESO a shot just on that merit alone.

    Heck, I hope it IS a little bit grindy. I hate logging onto a new MMO and, in 2 days, seeing max level max geared toon already griping about being bored. I say this as a totally casual player, too. I don't -want- welfare epics or speed leveling. I'm -fine- with it taking a long time and maybe never even getting to see the big endgame of raid content, so long as there's plenty of other stuff to do either in small group or teamed with my SO. Crafting, exploring, finishing all the quests, farming mobs, housing, whatever.

    Does this mean ESO will be these things? I've no idea, I'm barely into the beta. If someone who really adored GW2 is "bored" in this game, there's a decent chance I'll feel just the opposite. We'll see.

    image
  • InfiniteStrifeInfiniteStrife Od, TXPosts: 26Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hcoelho

    Wildstar devs must be happy. 

    I'm sad.... another great franchise ruined in the mmo genre.

    Yeah thats exactly how I feel too!

    All proper mmo fans would be lying if they said the havent been following ESO for the last 2 years, more or less.

    Im so tired of companies being incompetent and that Blizzard still is the only game gdeveloper who could make a grand game.

    I know theire still making Titan but its so far out, especially after the cancellation/reset on the project....but this crap like ESO I wont preorder nor pay a fee to. And I have always been and still am a dedicated fee spokesman...but if the game is as bad as this...Im not interested at all.

     

    Please Wildstar...have atleast something we can work with...

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