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Originally posted by askdaboss
I would have answered about $100-$150 - at best. But, really lifetime subs are a rip-off as most games that do this indeed go F2P after some time.
And what's worse is that ESO doing this would be basically them acknowledging that GW2 model of B2P for AAA games is the right one (which is probably true, just charge for Xpacks). Except that you are asked to pay $200+ for the game (instead of $40 something for GW2, I am wondering what the defenders of subscription based games have to say about that).
To me it's more like saying they're better than GW2 and worth like 5 times as much for the same thing.:) If tons of people bought lifetime in ESO it would certainly give them a nice nest egg of profit but it's also saying to players "Hey, we think our game is worth sticking around for the long haul". If lifetime sub is $300 then a player has to play for 20 months to make it worthwhile. If you can enjoy the game for longer than 20 months you're getting a free game after that point. So the company gets a nice commitment from players not to run off after the first few months and the player may get a totally free game after a certain amount of time.
Obviously there's tons of risk from the player's side. Not nearly as much from the company's. The company only loses if the player would've stayed subbed longer than 20 months (which most don't).
Originally posted by Zaradoom I don't think ESO will remain a sub game for long enough to warrant a lifetime sub at all.
though I disagree with you, I definitely think it isn't worth the risk depending on the cost for a lifetime sub. There are just too many things on the horizons, too much distraction, other competing technology (e.g. Occulus Rift and similar devices) that staying focused to one game seems more and more challenging.
There Is Always Hope!
These days i wouldn't say subs have any bargaining power, or have had for quite some time. You'd need a LARGE amount of people leaving to warrant them taking notice and when people threaten that's all they see .. threats
They know a portion of those 'might' follow through and then a deal of those will return as well .. so the losses player's threaten them with are less than they imagine.
Lifetime subs are just useful to some of us, it takes care of future payments and sure they could go F2P but generally when games do that they at least give something back (monthly generally, free updates in TSW etc) so still the LTS is giving a return.
As long as it's not daylight robbery and a decent price, I think the two i have were around £199 then I guess thats ok .. the $200 would be more preferable as thats £122 and i'd get that in a snap.
Originally posted by inemosz Originally posted by sketocafe Originally posted by inemosz Originally posted by cnutemp Originally posted by inemosz I've been hearing things,
Some people say that you haven't been hearing things.
see what i did there?
Well, let's take it as a rumour, a rumour of a possibility. We shall see in April whether it's true or not.
About the poll, i also think that i should put $200 in the poll, but i can't edit it.
All you have to do is link the Zeni communication you heard and we can find out right now whether it's true you've actually heard things.
It's on the beta forum. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post the admin's post or take a picture of it here.
Don't worry, pretty much anyone who was ever interested in ESO has access to those forums now. They might as well drop the NDA really considering how many people they gave access to.
I'm looking at the beta forums right now.
I don't see anything about a lifetime sub.
Originally posted by Pandamin Originally posted by inemosz Originally posted by sketocafe Originally posted by inemosz Originally posted by cnutemp Originally posted by inemosz I've been hearing things,
Yep same. Post a link OP, no one who isn't in beta will be able to see, but those who are can.
Originally posted by Pyatra Originally posted by Blazer6992 It will be free to play in about two to three years anyways. If it's really bad then maybe a year.
What factual sourced information are you basing this on that directly pertains to ESO? Not other games, but the game in question? Also please link sources of ESO financial data, after all you seem so sure, surely you must have numbers directly pertaining to ESO or Beth/ZOS to back up your statement.
NDA. He's not allowed to reveal what you ask him for.
There have been numerous articles in the past detailing the pros and cons of the lifetime option. I can say from personal experience that the three lifetime subs I have: LTORO, CO, and Star Trek have paid for themselves and then some. I have never spent an additional dime on these games after launch and have enjoyed them since their launches. If you can play the game for more than two years (consecutively) then you will benefit. To be honest thought, I doubt I would ever do it again since I cannot play MMO's as frequently as I used to.
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
after TSW and LOTRO... never ever again, guys don't be stupid even if they add lifetime sub... do not buy it...
I bought 2 LT subs to LOTRO, 1 LT sub to Champions Online and 1 LT sub to Star Trek Online, and I do not regret buying any of them, maybe CO a bit but not LOTRO or STO as I like these games. They still have saved so much money over the years even when they entered F2P
For over 8 years I ended up paying about $1440 per account (and I had more than one) towards SWG, and when SWTOR was announced I was hoping it was going to have a LT sub. I am glad it did not have a LT sub as the game was rather shallow, and is only fun for a few months and not a lifetime like SWG was, as proved by 1,5 million people out 2 million that bought it. Although if I did end up getting a LT sub for SWTOR I may have found reason to keep playing it, but to shell out a $15 fee each month again after SWG is not going to happen, esepcially with a game being shallow, and it is too restrictive in F2P to be enjoyable.
$200 or $300 compared to $1440 is well worrth it. If you like the game then a LT sub will always be worth it as you get the best the game offers, even if it goes F2P. In F2P there are always restrcitions and some things you can not even buy to unlock.
If LT subs are always available then they have nothing to hide, as you can play the game and then decide if it will keep you for the long haul, and then buy it but if they only have LT subs offerered at launch for limited amount of time, then they could be just getting it for a quick cash boost.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Originally posted by reeereee I believe someone last week said about the preorder/CE controversy: You people are over-reacting we'll know things are bad when they start offering a lifetime subscription. Edit: From a raw numbers prospective WoW is the only game I've ever subscribed to for over 6 months so for me anything over $90 is likely a losing proposition. While it's possible that ESO is the next big thing for me, I'd rather not bet hundreds of dollars against the odds.
WoW was the first game I ever subscribed to for under 6 months. Followed by every other game I ever played since then.
2004 to now....10 years all games have gone down hill. Who would of thought 1999 would bring the best MMO to date,
Originally posted by RebelScum99 Originally posted by rodingo Originally posted by Adoni Back in the day I paid 200$ for Lord Of The Rings Online. I still don't know how I feel about it. I got my moneys worth back then but I hardly play it now.
Well at least you feel you got your moneys worth from your LOTRO lifetime sub. I don't feelI have gotten my moneys worth yet and probably never will. Oh well, lesson learned. Never again will I buy a lifetime sub for a game.
I absolutely got my money's worth from my lifetime sub to LOTRO. One of the better investments I've made, even if I'm not currently playing it.
Definitely the only game, other than WoW, that would have ever been worth a lifetime sub.
I'm actually kicking myself that I didn't get a lifetime sub to LOTRO.
I don't like what they've done with the game but I still play as I enjoy being in "middle earth".
Originally posted by marganculos after TSW and LOTRO... never ever again, guys don't be stupid even if they add lifetime sub... do not buy it...
unless of course you play it a lot. It's a gamble sure, but since I still play LOTRO I would have actually saved a lot of money.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by RebelScum99 Originally posted by rodingo Originally posted by Adoni Back in the day I paid 200$ for Lord Of The Rings Online. I still don't know how I feel about it. I got my moneys worth back then but I hardly play it now.
+1 I have def. spent more than the 200 bucks it would have cost me in sub fees
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by marganculos after TSW and LOTRO... never ever again, guys don't be stupid even if they add lifetime sub... do not buy it...
Unless you play it "for a long time" you mean... But yes, it can be worth it financially of course, if you intend to play for 2-3+ years. It has to have a lot of pulling power from the start to justify it though. And the deterioration that usually comes with the F2P transition is a bit of a turn off for me.
Perhaps you (or I) will feel the same appeal for this world as you felt for the world of Lotro in what case it would be worth it, certainly.
The problem is that it is always difficult to evaluate how the content will evolve over the course of time, and perhaps it is a failure of developers to not be able to communicate the long term view of their project (roadmap, possible additions to the game, classes, expansions, etc.). Thinking about it, I would be much more confident to invest a large sum in a developer that would be more transparent about their post release plans (even though there is no real accountability then).
For me, lifetime subscription is like an "expensive B2P". I get bored fast in a game, 2-3 months at max. However, I usually want come back to play again in the future, that's why I didn't regret my GW2 and TSW purchase. I still play my B2P games casually from time to time. B2P doesn't give me this "pressure" feeling like in P2P, where I feel like I'm forced to play everyday to the fullest of my subscription days. If I missed one day, I feel like I'm wasting my money. I'd rather buy those expensive purchase than having that kind of feeling in P2P games.
If they were to provide a lifetime subscription for $200-ish, I'll definitely grab it. I think that will also be my purchase decision. In fact, I haven't pre-ordered yet, but I'll purchase the game if there were a lifetime subscription.
That's just me though.
I purchased the lifetime for LoTRO and have never regretted it - except in thinking it took money away from the company. Seriously, it is very simple - if you know you like a game and you expect to play it x months, where x is the number of months to recoup your investment, you would be an idiot not purchasing the lifetime.
Someone mentioned they were burned by Turbine when they purchased the lifetime apparently just before the conversion to F2P. It was well documented ahead of time they were doing the conversion - more than half a year - and I find it hard not to believe that if you were paying any attention to what was going on, you would have known - but this is a real possible downside to a lifetime membership (especially purchased well after release).
Even so, I actually tried to convert a second account to lifetime just before the conversion, but was not watching the deadline for the lifetime purchase. I would have preferred to have converted it, even just months before, as the perks for a lifetime member over a VIP were worth it in the F2P environment.
Again, it comes down to what you expect from a game. It took me two years to get a toon to end game after LoTRO was released and I am much more than a casual player. I come and go to the game as I wish, quite often jumping into other worlds - have helped my guild launch new MMO worlds in Aion, STO, Rift, SWtOR, GW2, WAR, AoC, TSW and a few others. Still play in some of them, but i always return back to LoTRO and I never sweat what my status is. That is what lifetime membership gave me.
They may offer a lifetime sub but it is very doubtful. More than likely they will offer some sort of founders deal for pre order guys where you get a large reduced price of extended subscriptions. Like 49.99 or 54.99 for 6 months and 89.99 or 99.99 for a year.
That way when they go free to play or buy to play they dont have to do what Turbine did and figure out how to appease all the people who bought lifetime subs with the 'never have to pay a sub again' option. Theyll just grandfather any time people have left into their system. Which I am sure will include a subscription option so it really wouldnt change anything. So theyre still in a win win. These founders who keep an active sub will keep their special price (if they stop subbing they lose it) and when the game stops being subscription restricted the 'fans' are the ones still footing the majority of Zenimax income.
Lifetime subs just dont make sense unless you need cash right up front, which after the cash grab Zenimax has already pulled shouldnt be the case at all. So theyll create something to continue to milk the hardcore supporters of this game and lock them in for an extended period, but not a 'lifetime'.
I just don't see Zenimax doing something like this no more than I saw Bioware doing it. Smaller studios might especially with big IP's but if Zenimax is confident in their product and I think they are than what motivation would they have for doing something like this given that from my understanding this is a largely self funded project?
I actually wish I had bought a TSW lifetime sub a few years ago at this point. I have gone back and forth in that game a number of times and really like it so a lifetime sub would have paid for itself. But that's pretty much it. The only other game it would have made sense in for me was EQ2 and it's not a option there. The problem with lifetime subs is by the time you realize if it's worth buying or not you have already paid so much in subscription/DLC fees that it not really worth it. Buying one on the front end is a gamble for sure.
Originally posted by inemosz I've been hearing things, that there is a possibility of a lifetime subscription. What do you think of it? How much will you pay for it?
It is ridiculous to have a lifetime sub, look at what happened to TSW and other games that had it, they went F2P (freemium) and People whined. Why don't you wait and see how good the game is and what depth it has.
"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum
ive never bought a lifetime sub in any game and i never will. im sure for people that are hell bent on playing a game for years, its a good deal. but i know i wont play any game like that any more.
i hop from game to game and play much more casual these days, if i like a game i obviously play longer and come back after taking a break.
so lifetime subs are not for me.
Originally posted by baphamet ive never bought a lifetime sub in any game and i never will. im sure for people that are hell bent on playing a game for years, its a good deal. but i know i wont play any game like that any more. i hop from game to game and play much more casual these days, if i like a game i obviously play longer and come back after taking a break. so lifetime subs are not for me.
Same. A lifetime sub would have to have some relationship to the amount of time I think I will spend in a game. The only one that in retrospect would have been worth something for me was the LOTRO lifetime sub and even there I have no regrets.
There have been plenty of MMO's for me where it would've been worth it because I paid well over two years in subscription fees even if they weren't all consecutive.
I agree that in general it's a huge gamble though, part of the lifetime subscriptions goal is to sucker people into spending a huge amount of money upfront when the game is still shiny and new, and the addiction is still high.
I suspect the average MMO player sticks with a new game for three to six months or something before moving on, so if they manage to convince one of those to shell out 200-300$ it's a pretty sweet deal for the company.
Originally posted by inemosz Yeah, TSW, LOTRO, DCUO, etc has it too. It's not like the lifetime subs is worthless if the game went F2P anyway, you still have the advantages over F2P players, forever.
Yep, and on TSW it guarantees that you'll always be able to buy the latest "issues" and plenty of the store cosmetics, you basically never have to worry about buying store currency again - still a good deal IMO.
Of course if you're one of those people that bought it instantly, then decided two days later that you despise the game and it's the worst thing ever... well... tough luck, those people need to buy some impulse control.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)