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I'll never spend a dime on any KICKSTARTER project...EVER

KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 896Member Uncommon

Since these forums have been filled with kickstarter threads and people trying to "spread the word out"...let me tell you few things about "kickstarters" and why I'll never spend a cent.

#1 I'll never get return for my "investment". If on other side by law those involved with the projects start making revenue and returned the profits to its investors, that would be something different. Although, history has shown that even if such law existed people still find ways to pocket as much as they can for themself.

We, the gamers can still continue to help developers a lot through other means to develop their project from spreading the word out about the game and sharing our opinions and ideas (both positive and negative)...which is called feedback.

Personally I would never ever give $ to people I don't have very close relationship, especially people who "BEG" and "ask" for money from the public. I dislike those who try to take advantage of me and others for personal gains.

Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. On other side, it's nice to see that people are getting desperate for money. I've also been desperate for a good game over the last 3+ years, but hey...no one cared what I want, so I spent $0.00 on anything new that was released.

Also as far as I know, no company pm'ed me a contract on these forums to be a lead design for a game, despite my unique knowledge and exceptional experience with gaming through my entire life...Tip for investors, you won't find the brilliant minds at your doorsteps asking to be funded to develop your projects. You look for them because most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives to bother wasting their time developing a game in first place. Of course with the right negotitioning, determination, timing and price I could be persuaded.

Anyways, I gave my two cents about kickstarters.

 

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Comments

  • cnutempcnutemp Fairfax, VAPosts: 229Member Uncommon

    is there something you're not telling us?  You seem awfully angry about kickstarter.  People can take advantage of you in much more devious ways than through a kickstarter campaign.  You just need to know what to look out for.

    Personally I donated 40 dollars to the repopulation because the game seems way more interesting for me than anything else on the market, and giving the devs 40 dollars to make my dream game a reality is well worth the investment.

    EDIT - also someone saying they are seeking a 'return on their investment'  does not mean they are strictly seeking something monetary.  For me it is enjoyment playing a good game.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,204Member Uncommon

    I've KS 3 of my favorite indie musicians and it's worked out great. I've funded one game (Planet Explorers) and it's going okay so far. They are behind schedule, but still keeping regular updates and on track. It could go south, but I think it will work out okay.

    I'm not against KS, but I'm careful with any project I back regardless of whether it's on a funding program.

    With that said, it can get pretty annoying when a bunch of project fans spam the forums with a bunch of different threads begging for support.

  • grafhgrafh chicago, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    I am skeptical of kickstarter myself, but i understand what i am getting into when i make an investment. Sure its not going to net any monetary rewards, but hey, its an investment none the less. I invest money in a game that i think will be good, and worth playing. Hell, even if the game is only fun for about 3 months, and i invested 40 dollars... Thats still worth it. Plus some of the rewards are worth it, depending on your backing.

     

    My biggest fear with kickstarters, if what will they really do with all that money? Take dayz for example. That game earned so much money.. Is all that money going towards the game? As an investor, i would like to see a chart or something of how the money was spent.

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Kopogero

     

    Also as far as I know, no company pm'ed me a contract on these forums to be a lead design for a game, despite my unique knowledge and exceptional experience with gaming through my entire life...Tip for investors, you won't find the brilliant minds at your doorsteps asking to be funded to develop your projects. You look for them because most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives to bother wasting their time developing a game in first place. Of course with the right negotitioning, determination, timing and price I could be persuaded.

     

     

    I hope this was toungue in cheek. If serious it made me LOL.

     

    A KS isn't an investment, it's patronage. You're paying to support an idea and no there's no ironclad guarantee of that idea ever coming to fruition the way you want it even if the thing gets funded but it still increases the chances of getting the kind of game you want over just waiting for some AAA publisher to come out with it.

    I don't know why you even post something like this. If you don't want to support kickstarters just don't. Nobody cares. You aren't smarter than everyone else because you've figured out that some kickstarters may be flops. It's like going on a stock investing forum  and saying "OMG everybody your stocks may go down!". Everybody already knows that. They're just taking a calculated risk.

     

     

  • MoarDotsMoarDots Anaheim, CAPosts: 40Member
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. On other side, it's nice to see that people are getting desperate for money. I've also been desperate for a good game over the last 3+ years, but hey...no one cared what I want, so I spent $0.00 on anything new that was released.

    Also as far as I know, no company pm'ed me a contract on these forums to be a lead design for a game, despite my unique knowledge and exceptional experience with gaming through my entire life...Tip for investors, you won't find the brilliant minds at your doorsteps asking to be funded to develop your projects. You look for them because most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives to bother wasting their time developing a game in first place. Of course with the right negotitioning, determination, timing and price I could be persuaded.

    Wow.  I have never read something from someone that sounded so self untitled like these 2 paragaphs.  I'm guessing you don't even know the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what Kickstarter has done for many industries.

    You don't like any of the games that came out in the past few years, yet you say that the only developers you trust are established companies - the same people that have been making crap you don't like for the past few years.

    No one was born with a bank full of cash.  Even the people who started these big companies like Blizzard started out with little money, and had to get cash from other sources to build on their ideas.

    "Most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives" could not be furthest from the truth.  The people with the most brilliant minds willing to impact the industry are usually the ones who are not already comfortable with their stash of cash.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    i would never donate to a KS either but that is just me. most of the people or companies that are doing these KS's have more money than i do, not going to give them more just because i like their idea lol

    if there are people out there that have money to burn and like mmo's that much, then i say go for it!

    to each their own.

  • triphextriphex Las Vegas, NVPosts: 9Member
    I'm also on the boat of not being a fan of kickstarter, but it sounds like the OP is mad because someone started a kickstarter, and didn't want him on the development team? Help me out here.
  • TechnyzeTechnyze El Dorado Hills, CAPosts: 80Member
    I this, I that.... no one cares.

    image

  • crasset15crasset15 TallinnPosts: 183Member
    I only pay for finished products. The earliest I'm willing to spend money is a pre-order AFTER I've played the beta.
  • KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence

    I hope this was toungue in cheek. If serious it made me LOL. 

    A KS isn't an investment, it's patronage. You're paying to support an idea and no there's no ironclad guarantee of that idea ever coming to fruition the way you want it even if the thing gets funded but it still increases the chances of getting the kind of game you want over just waiting for some AAA publisher to come out with it.

    I don't know why you even post something like this. If you don't want to support kickstarters just don't. Nobody cares. You aren't smarter than everyone else because you've figured out that some kickstarters may be flops. It's like going on a stock investing forum  and saying "OMG everybody your stocks may go down!". Everybody already knows that. They're just taking a calculated risk.

     

     

    Firstly, "you" is not "nobody else", secondly, if you want to bring a valid argument it helps to start with some facts. Why would I "pay" someone to build a product I might like when someone else is willing to build that product without asking $ from me?

    Fact is both intend to make "money" off it and they will continue to find ways and ask/demand $ for their finished product after they've completed it. It's just in my opinion pathetic to continue ask $ from your "supporters" and everyone else for a product you've build with money that were not yours in first place...

    In my views kickstarters are nothing more than a scam. I could too open a "kickstarter" project and tell the public, hey I need this type of $ to make this game and pray there are enough "insert your fav name here" out there willing to "bite".

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Good for you? You're not investing, you're pre ordering, and helping to get a game made that wouldn't get made otherwise.
  • reef22reef22 Phoenix, AZPosts: 85Member

    I understand the nature of kickstarter games and I think it would be great if they actually makes the game BUT...every time when I see a "kickstarter", I start having one question forming in the back of my head...

    What happens to all the money when the company failed to make a game or didn't meet the goal?  

    Say, you've raised 1 million dollars but didn't meet your goal of 2 million so what happens to that 1 million dollars?  Are you gonna return those money back to the people or what?  

  • KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Good for you? You're not investing, you're pre ordering, and helping to get a game made that wouldn't get made otherwise.

    Truth is there are in fact benefits for gamers out there with less "saturated" market. We would see much bigger playerbase focused toward less games, who would in fact prosper more if there weren't hundreds of mediocre games that are on life support.

    And yes....if I did not "pre order" and help with my $40 to the $400,000 to millions in pledge, I know that game wouldn't get to see the light...

    Bottom line is...there are hundreds of games out there that came out and few that I've enjoyed. Those few games took my $ and its up to those in charge to decide on what to spend it on. Kickstarters are just ideas and dreams and most end up totally different from what someone would expect em to be. That being said, anyone that's wise with his $ will show restrain and only pay for a tested product.

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Kopogero
     

     Why would I "pay" someone to build a product I might like when someone else is willing to build that product without asking $ from me?

    You wouldn't. Kickstarters are made for things that aren't being provided by big companies but people still want.

     

    Fact is both intend to make "money" off it and they will continue to find ways and ask/demand $ for their finished product after they've completed it. It's just in my opinion pathetic to continue ask $ from your "supporters" and everyone else for a product you've build with money that were not yours in first place...

    It is more like you sell them the product in advance and they get it when it comes out.   Some people do give more than the value of the product but no kickstarter requires that.

    In my views kickstarters are nothing more than a scam. I could too open a "kickstarter" project and tell the public, hey I need this type of $ to make this game and pray there are enough "insert your fav name here" out there willing to "bite".

    Well yeah that's your view. But if you really think it's a scam hire a lawyer and go to court with it or even just call the police. Scams are illegal after all, but you'd need  evidence other than "waaah...I don't like it so it's a scam!" so I doubt that will work for you.

     

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    I'm pretty torn on the whole crowdfunding thing. I think it's good for developers to have a method of raising funding for projects other than with the standard industry model but the implementation is just awful for consumers. Taking pre-ordering to an extreme and collecting payment for a product long before those purchasing have any of the information required to make a real purchasing decision is not something I'll ever support. If 'investors' in these projects were actually treated as such it'd be okay, but that's not what is happening.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    Tiny rant on kickstarter..

    So, InXile wanted a $20 pledge for wasteland 2 and you would receive a copy of the game.
    Fastforwad to now And they are charging $60 for the game on steam.

    Now, Im pretty sure that nearly everyone that wanted wasteland 2 would of pledged, You will be hard pressed to find people that would actually pay $60 after the fact imo.

    I guess what im trying to say is i don't think that these kickstarter companies will actually make money selling the finished product, so you will see cases like star citizen where they take in pledges then keep the excess proceeds as profit.

    Also, I have pledged to only 1 game on kickstarter remains to be seen if i will get my value for money..

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Good for you? You're not investing, you're pre ordering, and helping to get a game made that wouldn't get made otherwise.

    I don't pre-order ... particularly when a final good product is not guaranteed.

    And i don't need to help games being made, there are plenty fun ones that i don't even have time to finish. So no, i don't spend a dime on buying a promise on KS, but at the same time, please do. I have nothing against other people risking their money that may at the end benefit me (if a game is indeed made).

     

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon

     

    I generally like the idea of crowd funding in two way.

     

    A: it is about as democratic as a market gets.

    B: It does give some really wild and crazy ideas a chance to bloom in to at least prototypes, and we need that.

     

    Now ofc that does not equal that one should jump on any idea and spend several hundred dollars. It should also be known that no matter how much the people behind the product make it sound like it... You are never a investor... You are and will always remain a customer. You are data they take to real investors. That does not make the journey any less epic, just don´t expect any return on your investment beyond the product it self.

     

    That being said, crowd funding is a bit like BitCoins... A bubble that will implode and settle in to a much less impressive but still viable form.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Originally posted by iridescence

    I hope this was toungue in cheek. If serious it made me LOL. 

    A KS isn't an investment, it's patronage. You're paying to support an idea and no there's no ironclad guarantee of that idea ever coming to fruition the way you want it even if the thing gets funded but it still increases the chances of getting the kind of game you want over just waiting for some AAA publisher to come out with it.

    I don't know why you even post something like this. If you don't want to support kickstarters just don't. Nobody cares. You aren't smarter than everyone else because you've figured out that some kickstarters may be flops. It's like going on a stock investing forum  and saying "OMG everybody your stocks may go down!". Everybody already knows that. They're just taking a calculated risk.

     

     

    Firstly, "you" is not "nobody else", secondly, if you want to bring a valid argument it helps to start with some facts. Why would I "pay" someone to build a product I might like when someone else is willing to build that product without asking $ from me?

    Fact is both intend to make "money" off it and they will continue to find ways and ask/demand $ for their finished product after they've completed it. It's just in my opinion pathetic to continue ask $ from your "supporters" and everyone else for a product you've build with money that were not yours in first place...

    In my views kickstarters are nothing more than a scam. I could too open a "kickstarter" project and tell the public, hey I need this type of $ to make this game and pray there are enough "insert your fav name here" out there willing to "bite".

      Why are you so concerned about Kickstarter in the first place? You don't have to give them money or anything. For the most part people here are adults and can make their own decisions on what is or isn't reasonable for investing. 

    Yes its a huge scam like Pillars of Eternity which was kickstarted.   The game is fake... Or the Double Fine Kickstarter that game will never see the light of day.  Shroud of the Avatar is another that may fare well in the market.  So saying its all a scam is bogus.

    Oh and these guys can do it is because they all have something under their belts that people are interested in seeing made again.  You haven't done anything in the industry so you wouldn't be able to put something together to sell to the market. Hey though good luck being a bitter MMO player who hasn't spent a cent in 3 years.  Sure hanging out in a place where people talk about a hobby that you used to enjoy is probably amazing.

  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon

    I mostly agree with the OP.  I do not think highly of Kickstarters and I mostly think its giving away money ofr a very small chance of anything worthwhile playing being made in return.

    That being said I gave money to Pantheon.  Not because I expect to ever see a game.  But because I think its important for the MMO genre that a game like Pantheon be supported.  I feel strongly that MMO genre is dying with all new games being dumbed down, simplified, and made for everyone.  Its important IMO to support a game that attempts to bring back challenge, effort, community and old school mechanics.  A game that is being made for a small audience not for everyone.

    All that being said I don't think the odds of Pantheon succeeding are very high.  But I will gladly give them my money as I want to support such a project expecting nothing in return except that I did my part to help the genre offer veteran old school gamers some appealing options.

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Tiny rant on kickstarter..

    So, InXile wanted a $20 pledge for wasteland 2 and you would receive a copy of the game.
    Fastforwad to now And they are charging $60 for the game on steam.

    Just FYI: The $60 on Steam is for beta access. The reason it's like that is because beta access cost $75 on the Kickstarter pledge level so it would totally be a dick move to let people on Steam have beta access way cheaper than Kickstarter backers.

    I doubt the game will cost more than $30 when it is actually released. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Tiny rant on kickstarter..

    So, InXile wanted a $20 pledge for wasteland 2 and you would receive a copy of the game.
    Fastforwad to now And they are charging $60 for the game on steam.

    Now, Im pretty sure that nearly everyone that wanted wasteland 2 would of pledged, You will be hard pressed to find people that would actually pay $60 after the fact imo.

    I guess what im trying to say is i don't think that these kickstarter companies will actually make money selling the finished product, so you will see cases like star citizen where they take in pledges then keep the excess proceeds as profit.

    Also, I have pledged to only 1 game on kickstarter remains to be seen if i will get my value for money..

    I agree with you that it's ridiculous that they are charging $60 for the Alpha/Beta (whatever it is) on Steam, but their reasoning for it was a little different. They said that they needed to charge $60 because Alpha/Beta was promised for that price during the Kickstarter and they didn't think it would be fair to give that same level of access to someone that spent less money.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by sketocafe
    I'm pretty torn on the whole crowdfunding thing. I think it's good for developers to have a method of raising funding for projects other than with the standard industry model

    The issue i have is when they have the means or funds but choose to use kick starter to mitigate risk.

    Kickstarter should be a way for individuals or companies to secure funds that would otherwise be hard or impossible to obtain by other means.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    Hey I need a new boat..

     

    $20 free one hour boat tour of Egmont Key Nation Wildlife Refuge.

     

    $50 half day on the island soft drinks and snacks included.

     

    $100 full day on the island, snorkeling,  jet skies, soft drinks, snack, and lunch included.

     

    $250 the above + live music, bonfire, dinner, and dancing included.

     

    $500 the above + a full second day at your choice of sailing, deep sea fishing, or open water dive.

     

    $1000 the above + dancing the nights away at Ybor City ( club covers and drink cards included )

     

     

    FYI before the mods attack just a joke... unless someone really interested then maybe l'll go make a kickstarter page.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by iridescence

    Originally posted by Nitth Tiny rant on kickstarter.. So, InXile wanted a $20 pledge for wasteland 2 and you would receive a copy of the game. Fastforwad to now And they are charging $60 for the game on steam.
    Just FYI: The $60 on Steam is for beta access. The reason it's like that is because beta access cost $75 on the Kickstarter pledge level so it would totally be a dick move to let people on Steam have beta access way cheaper than Kickstarter backers.

    I doubt the game will cost more than $30 when it is actually released. 


    I'm willing to bet they will not lower the price. they may even push it up at release.
    Plus, its listed as early access on steam which historically means you have purchased the game, but your getting it earlier than everyone else (regardless if its actually still in development)

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

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