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Free Market Gaming - P2P, P2W, B2P, F2P ETC - How it works. (In the real world)

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    Unlike wine, MMORPG's fun factor (which of course is subjective) does NOT go up with price. In fact, the one i enjoy most .. Marvel heroes .. is totally free. I can find pinot noir (wine i like) at higher price which i like better. Tell me, is there a super hero MMO that i can play marvel characters with a higher price and a higher quality than Marvel Heroes.

    If there is one, i will play it tomorrow.

     

     

    That's fine for you. I've yet to find a game that I can play totally for free that I really enjoy for a prolonged period (Rift and Path of Exile are close but I tend to burn out on them quickly for different reasons).

    Some people will be satisfied with the free games out there but others want something more and are willing to pay for it. Just like you'd probably not find the $10 wine to your liking but it's fine for me because I don't even drink wine that much and am not such a fan of the general  taste that spending tons of money on it is really attractive to me.

     

    That is the point .. there is no "more" in MMORPGs. Name some sub-only MMORPGs in settings similar to those with a f2p option. There is practically nothing. As i said before, take Marvel Heroes as an example. It is a fun game, but the polish is not as high as D3. It is not like i am not willing to pay for it if there is one, but there is simply NO other.

    This is very different than wine while there is a huge range of pinot wine, even in the same appellation.

    And i also don't agree with the point about "prolonged period". I prefer quality (very fun when i play the game) over quantity (the game last a long time). Many of the better games i have played (Dishonored, Deus Ex Human Evolution, The Room 1 & 2 ...) are NOT long. In fact, the only long one is D3 .. and even that i am taking a hiatus before the expansion is coming out.

     

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member

    Gods, this arguement again. There is no "One Payment Model to Rule Them All!" in games just as there is no such thing in resteraunts or resorts, etc....just as there is no such thing that every movie must be a "Western". Anyone that tries to tell you different is selling something...and it's not entertainment.

    The gaming space, including MMO's is huge with a wide diversity of audiences and preferences. However so is the competition. Each game is going to have to offer something to differentiate something to it's intended audience in order to attract them....the payment model can be part of that, or not. Also every game Developer/Publisher faces a different and unique situation and that can effect the choice of payment model.

    Some of us have strong preferences for one payment model over another...others don't. Some of us strongly dislike how certain payment models OFTEN tend to get implimented or effect gameplay, even though one doesn't have to impliment the Payment model that way, it frequently happens...so it factors into or initial decision making about interest in a new game. That's it. The fact that such diversity exists (and it does and will) is a good thing for us consumers not a bad thing. Everyone needs to get used to it....and accept the fact that others have personal likes and dislikes.

    For instance, I happen to personaly dislike a number of things that MANY F2P games tend to do. So when I see "F2P" in the game description it's an immediate point against the game in my decision making about whether it's worth my time to investigate further to see how the game actualy impliments those elements I dislike. On the other hand, if the game is compelling enough in other areas, it may overpower those objections and see how the game handles those specific elements that I have issues with (and not all F2P games handle them badly) and whether the game would be fun enough to play even with those elements.

    This is normal behavior by consumers....and we all do this sort of things with different elements of games that meet our individual likes or dislikes.....and companies realize this as well.

    For example, I also hate games that require Steam or a similar service to play.....a recent Steam automatic update hosing a game I was perfectly happy playing on the older version illustrates part of the reason why..... so I tend to avoid those as well, but if there is a game that actualy interests me so much in other regards (as illustrated by my tale here) then it will overcome my dislike of Steam os similar services.

    That's just how consumers behave. We are all different, we all have different likes and dislikes....the combination of which will determine if we are even willing to try a particular game or not, let alone spend any money on it.

     

     

     

     

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Unlike wine, MMORPG's fun factor (which of course is subjective) does NOT go up with price. In fact, the one i enjoy most .. Marvel heroes .. is totally free. I can find pinot noir (wine i like) at higher price which i like better. Tell me, is there a super hero MMO that i can play marvel characters with a higher price and a higher quality than Marvel Heroes.

    If there is one, i will play it tomorrow.

    That's fine for you. I've yet to find a game that I can play totally for free that I really enjoy for a prolonged period (Rift and Path of Exile are close but I tend to burn out on them quickly for different reasons).

    Some people will be satisfied with the free games out there but others want something more and are willing to pay for it. Just like you'd probably not find the $10 wine to your liking but it's fine for me because I don't even drink wine that much and am not such a fan of the general  taste that spending tons of money on it is really attractive to me.

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    Different target audiences. What one person likes, an other doesn't. The world would be quite boring if everyone had the same taste.

    Both methods have their merits, both have their target audience, both can be used successfully.

    Not to mention, many games are hybrids anyway.

     

    ^ agree to GrumpyMel2's post.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Gaendric
     

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    It is only pointless if you expect a resolution, or a "win" or "loss".

    It is not pointless if you are enjoying drama and debate.

     

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric
     

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    It is only pointless if you expect a resolution, or a "win" or "loss".

    It is not pointless if you are enjoying drama and debate.

    There surely is no shortage of drama in those threads :)

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric
     

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    It is only pointless if you expect a resolution, or a "win" or "loss".

    It is not pointless if you are enjoying drama and debate.

     

    I never see the argument as right or wrong, or win or lose. It's about true or false. I already know people just like one or the other. The issue I see argued is.... is what they're saying about the model they like/dislike actually true. Or is it an excuse to justify why they like/dislike their choice.

    Statements like free players just want things for free. While it may fit some portion of the player base it isn't a true statement because it doesn't really apply to everyone...or even close to everyone.

    Subs offer better quality games....but there's only one game that actually fits that description.

    The list goes on and on...

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric
     

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    It is only pointless if you expect a resolution, or a "win" or "loss".

    It is not pointless if you are enjoying drama and debate.

     

    I never see the argument as right or wrong, or win or lose. It's about true or false. I already know people just like one or the other. The issue I see argued is.... is what they're saying about the model they like/dislike actually true. Or is it an excuse to justify why they like/dislike their choice.

    Statements like free players just want things for free. While it may fit some portion of the player base it isn't a true statement because it doesn't really apply to everyone...or even close to everyone.

    Subs offer better quality games....but there's only one game that actually fits that description.

    The list goes on and on...

    Yeah I agree to that, interesting to see the arguments and to see to which extents people go to push their side of the argument. 

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Gaendric
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric
     

    Just shows what some of us have been saying, that a F2P vs. P2P battle is pointless.

    It is only pointless if you expect a resolution, or a "win" or "loss".

    It is not pointless if you are enjoying drama and debate.

    There surely is no shortage of drama in those threads :)

     

    Exactly. Why do you think so many here day in and day out flogging the same dead horse. In fact, this thread (about business models) have been done to death.

    It got so many responses because people are enjoying the debate and compel to response. No one is naive enough to expect he or she will come up with some magical argument and settle it once and for all.

     

     

  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Palm Springs, CAPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    Of course. It is seldom about affordability as some here miscontrued.

    It is about competition. I just bought a bottle of $60 wine but i won't drop a dime on MMORPGs. Why? Because for the wine i want, i cannot get it for anything less.

    However, for MMORPGs, i don't get more fun when i pay for it, so why should i?

    Well see I wouldn't spend more than $10 on a bottle of wine because cheap wine pretty much tastes the same as expensive wine to me. So I'm with wine like you are with MMORPGs. There is a higher standard and better quality in more expensive to play MMORPGs for the most part you just don't care enough to buy them. Just like I don't care enough to buy the $60 wine for the slight increase in quality which I could probably barely taste.

     

    First, $60 a bottle is not expensive. There is wine which is orders of magnitude above $60. Second, i wouldn't pretend to be a wine expert, but i can tell the difference between a $10 bottle, and a $50-100 ... above that range, i have no experience.

    Secondly, there is no higher quality in MMORPGs if you go to sub ... there are only like TWO main one.

    WOW, i have played, and bored with and quit. Eve i do not like .. in fact, Eve pve is easy mode boring stuff.

    Unlike wine, MMORPG's fun factor (which of course is subjective) does NOT go up with price. In fact, the one i enjoy most .. Marvel heroes .. is totally free. I can find pinot noir (wine i like) at higher price which i like better. Tell me, is there a super hero MMO that i can play marvel characters with a higher price and a higher quality than Marvel Heroes.

    If there is one, i will play it tomorrow.

     

     

    You didn't get it?! It is never about quality on market or rarities (even not so rarities). "Because for the wine i want, i cannot get it for anything less". And your over annoying reminiscence about your limited vine experience is missing the point.

    We pay more because we badly want it, and cannot get it for less. And doesn’t matter what it is.

    And doesn’t matter why we want it that much.  And all this your dilettante logic about quality/price has no real relevance.

    The analogy vine/game (both deviate us from reality) is very direct and proper. All conclusions should follow.

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric

    There surely is no shortage of drama in those threads :)

     

    Exactly. Why do you think so many here day in and day out flogging the same dead horse. In fact, this thread (about business models) have been done to death.

    It got so many responses because people are enjoying the debate and compel to response. No one is naive enough to expect he or she will come up with some magical argument and settle it once and for all.

    Agree to the first part.

    Not entirely convinced by the last bit. While I do agree it applies to the majority, there are some very emotionally loaded messages in these threads. Those people don't seem to see it as a dead horse, little fun discussion or lost cause. Judging by the attacks/badmouthing/rants, not everyone is just "enjoying the debate" :p

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

    We pay more because we badly want it, and cannot get it for less. And doesn’t matter what it is.

    want want? There are so few games you can actually pay more. There are like what .. 3 .. WoW and Eve, and FF.

    It does not look like you can get more by paying more, unlike wine.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Gaendric
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Gaendric

    There surely is no shortage of drama in those threads :)

     

    Exactly. Why do you think so many here day in and day out flogging the same dead horse. In fact, this thread (about business models) have been done to death.

    It got so many responses because people are enjoying the debate and compel to response. No one is naive enough to expect he or she will come up with some magical argument and settle it once and for all.

    Agree to the first part.

    Not entirely convinced by the last bit. While I do agree it applies to the majority, there are some very emotionally loaded messages in these threads. Those people don't seem to see it as a dead horse, little fun discussion or lost cause. Judging by the attacks/badmouthing/rants, not everyone is just "enjoying the debate" :p

    Of course some don't see it as a dead horse .. but it does not make them right. Don't tell me you don't think 99% of the arguments are a) repeating, and b) convincing no one .... a perfect definition of dead horses.

    Now i don't understand how people would engage in leisure activities (and posting on forums surely is not necessarily, and hence leisure activity to me) without any enjoyment. I suppose people can have weird preference and want to inflict mental anguish on themselves ... but at the end of the day, i would guess that most are enjoying, otherwise they would not be doing it.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,667Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    That's a decent point, how ever it does not deter from the fact that if they can get 100,000,000 people to log into a $150 hero engine chinese grinder that runs on a Core2Duo E8400 and 0.1% of them are willing to pay money to dress up their zelda looking pixel stack and be king.  They'll have 100,000 paying customers for total trash.

    Evidently 100,000 people don't think it's trash. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by RealmLordsKen
    Originally posted by DamonVile
     

    And calling a game that made $130 million last year a miserable failure ...well... I wish all my projects failed that bad.

     

    Hell yeah, mine too.

     

    Not to mention they can recoup all the initial investment (200M) in less than 2 years. And after that, the profit margin is high (because server costs are very small compared to the revenues).

    It is certainly a financial success, and no doubt encouraging for other big themepark investment like ESO.

     

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