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Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

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  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Tampa, FLPosts: 532Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Comaf
    Originally posted by spankybus
    If I read it correctly, people who buy the CE can play any race in any alliance. Wait til that one hits,

    Incorrect.

     

    However...Play as an Imperial

    Play as an Imperial and play in any Alliance. Gain unique bonuses, crafting styles, gear and more!

     

    NO YOUR INCOREECT!

     

    If you pre-order you get the explorers pack which lets ALL races join Either Faction!

     

  • Joejc7135Joejc7135 Spring Hill, FLPosts: 209Member Uncommon

    I don't think it's a bad decison for them to do this...I just think it's a dishonest and greedy one. They have every right to be dishonest and greedy, just as I have every right to refuse to give them my money and make sure I tell everyone who will listen what greedy liars they are. Far as an in-game store goes...who really gives a damn? The important part is whether they sell content for the game in a cash shop...what difference does it make if you can access it from the UI or you have to go to a url? Talk about grasping at straws for an argument.

     

    I guess I just ran out of vasoline so these kind of pricing plans hurt my asshole more then most on this forum.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    There seem to be three separate issues getting all jumbled up in some posters rush to judgement:

    1. Should there be any kind of CE?

    2. How much extra should it cost?

    3. What should you get for it?

     

    1) Yes.

    2) As much as they feel like.

    3) Statues, books, artwork... you know, collectors items. Not races and in-game advantages (removal of racial faction lock) to coerce a quick cash grab. 

     

    The whole point of going subscription based is to get rid of the haves and have nots, make everything based on in-game accomplishments with everyone on the same monthly fee. Which is the response that the devs gave when queried about the choice of going subscription based rather than F2P.  This move sets a clear precedent that Zenimax do not respect that and will sell whatever they feel like when it suits them.

     

    I don't have anything against P2P games, hell I am playing WoW again at the moment and will probably play Wildstar.  The issue here is that in-game unlocks that actually impact on gameplay have no place being sold with real life money in a subscription game.  Can they do whatever they feel like?  Obviously.  But lets not try and stifle those who are discontent. 

    This issue clearly doesn't bother the people defending it, because they plan to pre-order and / or buy the collectors edition and get these advantages. 

     

    Personally I decided not to play this game after trying it, but I don't want them setting a precedent for upcoming subscription games, letting them think that this kind of business practice is alright.  It's shady and reeks of a cash grab.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Oh my god.  Post a link to a reference so the discussion can move on.

     

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/29/the-elder-scrolls-online-imperial-edition-leaked-by-amazon

     

    Preordering allows players to play any race in any alliance.  Imperial Edition players can play as an Imperial, regardless of alliance.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    I really hope we see a massive guild from 4CHAN called "The Naked Nords for Her Hotness, Queen Beckinsdale" and all they do is hang out, naked, in the AD starter area and DANCE.  Just so all the DAOC players who wanted this to be DAOC 2 QQ all day.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    I really hope we see a massive guild from 4CHAN called "The Naked Nords for Her Hotness, Queen Beckinsdale" and all they do is hang out, naked, in the AD starter area and DANCE.  Just so all the DAOC players who wanted this to be DAOC 2 QQ all day.

    Thankfully you'll be segregated into your own phase of the megaserver with equally minded players...fill your boots.

  • AdamaiAdamai derbyPosts: 469Member

    im no longer buying the game purely because of this stupid decision they made. i did the beta and i have to say it was pretty good and i enjoyed it.. but that was with the thought pattern of the game being a sub based mmo i never thought in a million years they would try to force sales by offering up an entirely new and complete race ! and further more if you dont preorder you can never be that race.. 

     

    ummm I dont think so. so here it is! im not buying or playing the game until they remove that option.  and they need to do it before launch! my guess is they have already sold a ton of copies already so i guess they just screwed their game over.

     

    i imagine many more people will simply opt out of playing the game now as well. they would be foolish if they didnt.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    I really hope we see a massive guild from 4CHAN called "The Naked Nords for Her Hotness, Queen Beckinsdale" and all they do is hang out, naked, in the AD starter area and DANCE.  Just so all the DAOC players who wanted this to be DAOC 2 QQ all day.

    Thankfully you'll be segregated into your own phase of the megaserver with equally minded players...fill your boots.

    Erm, no, they did away with the phasing questionnaire long ago.  ;)

  • blazzen67blazzen67 Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 65Member
    i do believe that if the Imperial race is available for pre-order, that it makes sense that eventually it will be available for everyone. Say like when you get your first character to level 50. i doubt very seriously that the only way a player can play the imperial race is through a pre-order before the game is released, or even after release. unless confirmed by the dev's that is the case, I dont have a problem with this decision at all.
  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by blazzen67
    i do believe that if the Imperial race is available for pre-order, that it makes sense that eventually it will be available for everyone. Say like when you get your first character to level 50. i doubt very seriously that the only way a player can play the imperial race is through a pre-order before the game is released, or even after release. unless confirmed by the dev's that is the case, I dont have a problem with this decision at all.

    Yea this is how I think it will end up going down even if it wasn't their original plan based on all the hate they are getting over this.  Think SWTOR where races are faction locked but you can unlock them by leveling one to cap.  The pre order bonus will let people do that day one where people who don't pre order will have to level up a race to unlock it.

  • blazzen67blazzen67 Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by blazzen67
    i do believe that if the Imperial race is available for pre-order, that it makes sense that eventually it will be available for everyone. Say like when you get your first character to level 50. i doubt very seriously that the only way a player can play the imperial race is through a pre-order before the game is released, or even after release. unless confirmed by the dev's that is the case, I dont have a problem with this decision at all.

    Yea this is how I think it will end up going down even if it wasn't their original plan based on all the hate they are getting over this.  Think SWTOR where races are faction locked but you can unlock them by leveling one to cap.  The pre order bonus will let people do that day one where people who don't pre order will have to level up a race to unlock it.

    exactly...it would be the worst decision they could make if indeed the only way to play the imperial race is through pre-order..i doubt very seriously they are that stupid

  • AsariashaAsariasha Somewhere inPosts: 218Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    Originally posted by Asariasha

    Your poverty pisses me off!

     

    When you buy a box of cornflakes in the supermarket and get an extra pack of Rice Pops for buying the bigger box, or if you buy a car and get certain pay-configurations on top for choosing the more expensive version, absolutely no one is argueing. If this very traditional business model is used in online games, people start moaning, complaining and try to make a shitstorm out of it.

     

    Get over it. This is how the world works and in this case it is only a few bucks. If you want something special, you have to pay for it. If you can't afford it, then you better start to work for it or simply begin saving for it.

    Difference is, when you pay extra for more, you tend to get ... things that are not standard. Keyword, standard.

    A race in a game that has been part of the series for some time all of a sudden costing extra when in the past it was standard is not good. Unique Mounts, pets, items ... are all not standard. A well known race that is suppose to be part of the game is standard.

     

    Not correct. Zenimax never announced the Imperial as race. The Digital Imperial Edition simply is the answer to several players interest to play races outside of their given alliance. It is a good idea and I believe that many players will decide to get this package.

    Actually I meant specifically the elder scrolls series. It's a standard race in the series.

    Truth of the matter is, I had not even noticed it wasn't in ESO. I still don't think that makes it right either way. It's a race that should be available to everyone who purchases the game because it's a standard race in the series.

    Many P2P players also complain about F2P games specifically because of the pay gates involved. Yet I keep seeing the same people who hate this kind of stuff defending it here. It makes no sense. You hate F2P because of the pay gates, but it's ok for a P2P game to do it instead?

    If they are willing to do this .. how can you all be sure they wont add a cash shop. They lied already. Who says they won't do it again?

    I don't know how you all overlook this crap that companies do and defend bad business practices.

    At least when a game is F2P .. it's some what expected. It doesn't harm me in anyway because it's entirely my choice to pay for what I want. 

    P2P ... I assume I payed for the entire game, and I assume the monthly fee covers future updates, excluding dlc / expansions. When a company all of a sudden breaks the whole idea of what a P2P game means to me, it really makes the P2P model look like total garbage.

    This is exactly the reason why I have such issues with the P2P model. It's a total money grab and scam. You pay for all these things, and pay a monthly fee, just for them to betray your trust and eventually go F2P.

    Screw that. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I am not stupid enough to keep being fooled.

     

    Sorry, but it is utter nonsense to compare TESOs Imperial Edition to the monetization model of F2P games. In F2P games, at a certain point you must pay money in order to ...

     

    ... shorten waiting time for the finish of a construction.

    ... get access to exclusive content.

    ... be able to use all comfort functions.

     

    If you do not pay you will be very limited in your possibilities. And this is where the F2P model hooks the player. Many human beings are lazy and want everything as quickly as possible. If you cannot wait or are very passionate with a game, you are going to pay. Thats it.

     

    Now, looking at the Imperial Edition again. All you get is an additional race that can be purchased by players at any given time. I understand that lore wise it would have been a really kind move to simply add the Imperial Race as bonus to all preorders. But I also understand that Zenimax must make big revenues.

     

    There is a lot pressure on Zenimax and all involved employees. It is rumored that the development of TESO roughly took $ 200kk. And to make it even worse, financial analysts predict that TESO will mark the end of the P2P model and that it will fail. It is a no-brainer that Zenimax and stakeholders are interested to bring in the development costs as quickly as possible.

     

    You are complaining about paying 20 bucks for an additional race, but have you considered the following? Zenimax is one of the last companies holding up the P2P flag. This model brings safety to the development studio when it comes to the development of future expansions and it does not grab for the customers whole purse.

     

    I would even happily pay 100 bucks for the Imp Edition. See, if this one fails then the whole P2P model is doomed to be outdated. The conclusion: Future games will be released as F2P games and believe me, then you really have got something to complain about!

     

     

  • Cellarkid88Cellarkid88 OeldePosts: 46Member

    Wow

     

    companies and media really did a great job at brainwashing gamers over the last decade.

    Winning a discussion is not what it's about. If you could pass insight to someone or learn something from it in return - noone can really loose, can they?

  • himodshimods fuckyouPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by JJ82

    It takes work for a normal person to make a decision this bad, its effortless for this development team however. it proves everything they have said about the reasons for using this piss poor DaoC design is a complete JOKE.

    We could have had a real TES MMO if it wasn't in the hands of Firor.

    No closed faction lands. No hidden away PvP land to fight over, instead have an actual world at war. No idiotic racial locks. None of this "class skill" crap and have real freedom. Some kind of in game "foundry" to build content with. Combat that hits home. complete open world (no, part of the world being open is not open world). No crafting skill limits.

    Now we get all the DaoC design limits, F2P style perks that go around them and a ton of time and resources spent trying to make the game still seem like an SRPG with voice-overs......

    While I fully agree with you, I'm quite convinced it's not the developers making these decisions, but the ones holding all the money.

  • GeridenGeriden DublinPosts: 391Member

    Well i was really looking forward to this game, I really wanted a good realistic looking mmo with a sub fee so i wouldnt be getting nickle and dimed, feeling like i had to spend money in a cash shop for things. Then the beta weekend came, then all these extra cost's and locked features.

     

    Seriously mmo's use to cost about 30 euro's to buy the box, now these guys are charging 50-60 + the sub fee, and now they think its ok to also sell a extra race, bundled with the ce for a insane price and a cash shop !. They can seriously feck off im just not going to support this game. It is going to go free to play, we are witnessing SWOTOR all over again, More cinematics than game play, why ? i wonder ?

     

    Never mind the fact its just ruined another amazing ip that could have had so much potential like swotor. Games a cash grab, avoid.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon

    All the complainers said SW:ToR was a flop and gonna die...guess what...still here, making tons of money and going strong.

     

    Guess what, the same will happen for TESO. All the babies will come here and post but in the end they will still get the game and then will proceed to post how they were forced to get it.

     

    To sum up this thread.....wah...pounds fists and feet on ground till mommy makes us feels better......

  • SasamiSasami HelsinkiPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by Cellarkid88

    Wow

     

    companies and media really did a great job at brainwashing gamers over the last decade.

    Wow, so called gamers whine small stuff nowdays. Big deal, ESO will have shop that allows buy all kind a stuff. Possibility to play any race on both side is just fluff really.

  • arvinsarvins BergschenhoekPosts: 6Member Uncommon
    Just get over it, or buy the d**** collectors edition.....  There are far worst thing than this...collectors edition gives you something special ... so what..
  • MarkusrindMarkusrind CrawleyPosts: 359Member
    Ignorance is bliss...Praise the almight NDA!.
  • Cellarkid88Cellarkid88 OeldePosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by Cellarkid88

    Wow

     

    companies and media really did a great job at brainwashing gamers over the last decade.

    Wow, so called gamers whine small stuff nowdays. Big deal, ESO will have shop that allows buy all kind a stuff. Possibility to play any race on both side is just fluff really.

    Oh cool. My MMO that requires a purchase of the CE to play a certain race at release and a monthly subscription fee also comes with a cash shop. They will surely not abuse this to milk their users and ruin the IP instead of just improving the product itself if income doesnt meet expectations.

     

    I mean... what could go wrong right???

    Winning a discussion is not what it's about. If you could pass insight to someone or learn something from it in return - noone can really loose, can they?

  • DalanonDalanon Warren, OHPosts: 124Member
    From what ive read and heard these preorder bonuses are not as special as people think.
    the ability to play as a different faction is available when u reach level cap. The preorder just allows you to do it at start of game. The horse that comes with it is just a standard horse. The imperial crafting is just a style that can be learned later on by other races. The big thing is the imperial race of course. But thats not effecting gameplay at all its just a look for your character. There is the question of will this lead to bigger problems where they are charging cash shop style for game changing things in the future. So for those that have said something thank you for showing that the community does not like that idea. But as it stands what they are offering here is not game changing or since i dont plan on playing an imperial even very interesting.

    Not all who wander are lost...

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon

    Interesting to see so many people that would never buy an expansion for an MMO. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GeridenGeriden DublinPosts: 391Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Interesting to see so many people that would never buy an expansion for an MMO. 

     

    That is such a pedantic and mute point, and if you cant see the glaring flaw in that argument well then the future may not be so bright for you.

  • lafaiellafaiel harrisburg, PAPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Cellarkid88

    Wow

     

    companies and media really did a great job at brainwashing gamers over the last decade.

    They really have, and they have no willpower to make a stand and say enough either, the companies look at them like little loot piniatas to beat with the money bat.  Just look at  how many of them are trying to justify it.

  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member

    I'm struggling to see how people did not see this type of announcement coming.....

    It is clearly an acid test exercise......

    Gate a core race behind an additional CE purchase in order to both maximise launch revenue and also assess community reaction.

    This is basically just the first layer of framework before the game goes F2P with full on cash shop six months after launch.

    Zeni are just dipping their toe in the water here in order to see what sorts of content they can get away with charging for when the game does move to a full F2P model shortly after release....

    Welcome to the new world.....

    Driz

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