It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
I feel they should have gone one of two ways. 1) Keep the faction lock regardless of the Skyim impact. The negative to this is that they would be ignoring beta feedback. 2) Open the Explorers Pack to everyone as part of their subscription. The negative to this being you anger those who feel it was part of the lore and that Zenimax is now lying about their overall direction. They really couldn't win in either case with everyone. The Imperial Race to me is irrelevant and should stay as a CE addition because it is just Skin and I could care less. CE additions need to give incentives like every other MMO. They are here to make money. I agree that they didn't handle this ideally and they could have been more careful with earlier statements last year, but it doesn't impact my excitement at all and I think the author and a lot of posters on this site are over-reacting.
As far as NDA and preordering, it will be dropped soon enough and you can still decide prior to launch if you will preorder.
There Is Always Hope!
Originally posted by azzamasin I refuse to preorder anything without having either an NDA drop or full information on all systems and content avaibale in the game. There has been ZERO information about End-Game PvE systems and they want my money? I think not skippy!!!!!!
I just don't buy stuff where I know so little about.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Gravarg Originally posted by otacu Originally posted by CommoX Don't give the player what they want, they cry about it, give them what they want, they cry about it. How does anyone win?
Quite simple. Give as you promised the imperial race and faction unlock to everyone that pay the sub.
Remember? this is a a subscription game. They promised that after you buy the game and pay a sub you will get 100% of the game.
Well they lied.
Next race they add they will put it in the cash shop as the Imperials. Will you write "why do you cry about it? it's something new that you wanted?"
Well excuse me but what's ESO ? a p2p or a f2p?
They never promised that everything would be included with a subscription. Actually, no game has ever guaranteed this. This is a figment of the playerbase's imagination. You pay to get access to the server. MMOs with subscriptions have always tried ways to make extra money on the side. Just like old collector's editions of games used to offer you a map, or figurine or something, they're just including ingame items as well. Imperial race isn't a make it or break it, since it's not going to have an ability or anything that makes them superior. Those that say this breaks the lore...well it actually doesn't. The Imperials are in every region in the game, or well most of them.
When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience.
Instead, Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls. He also explained that the forecastable revenue stream created by subs helps the team better plan for content updates. ZeniMax is aiming for new content releases "every month or six weeks, for as long as people want to play the game."
I didn't speak of the lore. I didn't speak of "pay to win". I didn't even hint that the imperial race is better than the other races. I just said that a playable race is a core element of a game. And as such it should be FREE in a subscription game.
Tell me another subscription game were a playable race is a cash shop upgrade.
Zenimax just lied to the players to grab more money.
I have a question : "will it be OK for Zenimax to put a new race in the cash shop 3 months after launch?"
What's the meaning of a subscription fee if i have to pay for fashion items (ok fine) and core game elements too?
Btw i get access to the server even in a random f2p.
Originally posted by RaiZt Find the story informative. Im not following the game as it's not appealing to me in general. But Orbitox when i reed your post all that comes to mind is fanboy and i agree with the writer here in a sub game it should be equal thats why we pay a fee every month. Setting aside one "race/class" as a upgrade preoprder option is plain wrong and greedy.
I love sub-fee games for the same reason but I don't discard people who pre-order to actually have something meaningfull to show even if I don't bother to pre-order myself.
As I have said before in other topics I am sure with almost any pre-order item of what ever game there will be people who would have liked that item ingame due to playing and earning it.
I am still not sure why people complain when pre-order gives players actually something exclusive that the majority can't get. Want it so bad then simply pre-order, seems more logical then to waist energy on something you actually have a choice in.
Also hoped this topic would provide more details to the matter in way's of contact with Zenimax. So was kind of disappointed to see this topic jumping the populair bandwagon.
Originally posted by Calven The major problem, as I see it, is that we as customers have allowed this to happen. I have done som research about the development of pre-order bonuses by comparing the Collector's Editions from several popular games released within the last 10 years and we've gone from none or very insignificant in-game pre-order bonuses to having pre-orders riddled with more than just a vanity pet:
an overlooked sub mmo (that later went ftp before it went bellyup)
10+ years ago, Shadowbane offered 3 races w pre-orders back in 2002
Shadowbane's pre-order races are a bonus to players who want to pre-order the game and immediately explore the Shadowbane world as a Minotaur, Centaur or Aracroix.
The races will be unlocked each month after its November launch for all players.
Kickstarter: Stuff I'm supporting
When ever I read "news" from this site I can't help but feel like I've been reading about this "news" on their forums for the last week already.
Shouldn't journalism strive to reach a bit deeper than just eves dropping on their own site for ideas ? These seem more like after action reports that have been talked to death already.
As a fan of the Elder Scrolls and the Imperials in particular (shut up, they're not a boring race. They have a rich interesting lore and are inspired by one of our greatest civilizations) this is just a kick in the balls.
Not allowing to play them for lore reasons, fine. I didn't like it but I can deal with that. But putting a core aspect of the Elder Scrolls experience (and yes, your race is a core aspect of the experience ) behind a pay wall? That's just lame.
Especially after promises that the subscription fee would net you 100% of the content, that this would be a true Elder Scrolls experience, that there wouldn't be any pop-up windows telling you that you don't have access to this.
Now we've got the first Elder Scrolls game ever where during character creation on of the options will be grayed out and if you click on it a window will pop up, you don't have access to this: go buy the Imperial edition.
We are the bunny.Resistance is futile.''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by Calven The major problem, as I see it, is that we as customers have allowed this to happen. I have done som research about the development of pre-order bonuses by comparing the Collector's Editions from several popular games released within the last 10 years and we've gone from none or very insignificant in-game pre-order bonuses to having pre-orders riddled with more than just a vanity pet:
Nicely found and thank you for sharing! Do you know how this was received back then? I never played Shadowbane myself so I know little of the game and its reception. A critical point is how they, at least, unlocked the classes for all to use after 3 months (for free I assume?). I'm no fan of holding something as hostage for extra cash and I fear this trend will only gain strenght if ESO is succesful. Do not get me wrong, I have no desire to see a game fail. Only assholes would wish for such things. But I hope people can become aware of this.. After all, they're the ones who control whether or not this should continue
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
It is what it is. the controversy wasn't enough to give the story legs. opinions have been formed and players have made their choices. Zenimax doesn't have to explain reason why, because they have offered it and people have bought it. the ones that haven't will be able at some point to purchase it in game for real world money. not much else to say really but, I hope it's a fun game truly I do. I will decide as soon as the NDA is off and we get beta feedback, until then I keep my money in my wallet and my eyes on the boards.
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
Originally posted by deniter Originally posted by Hellidol Originally posted by EndoRoboto NDA still up? Yeah i guess i see why... the amount of negative buzz around this game would drown it before it even left the gate.
Not really, those that have played the game already know how well the game will do, tbh if you base trying a game out on what people on these forums say you are doomed to never play a game ever again. Even some of the Mod's and Editors on this site are biases about stuff like P2P vs F2P which isnt bad but it is when you put just one side in your writings or just do a crappy job on defending one sides equal to the one you happen to like. Anyone that reads this site should know about 80% of it isnt something you should base anything of anything on. This site is great for keeping people up to date and for people venting their opinions. I personally like the reviews they provide most the time but I would like to see more Leahy weekly news on it all, that might be due to funding or just not having the needed access to the info. Also they should create threads for people to post questions about a subject to ask when doing these interviews, instead they do what they feel is the best question which I feel is a dis-justice to the readers.
The game will do much better then anyone hoped for and those the end up playing might stop going these forums as much because it will be filled with agendas that are malicious at best.
I think it would be fair, at least, if people know what they are getting if they preorder. There are only handful of people that has played in beta, rest of us know only what Zenimax has told and promised.
I don't know about others, but i have learned to read between the lines even on these forums, and make my own opinion based on other people's opinions and reviews. Some will hate, some will praise, but the truth is somewhere in between.
If they want us to preorder, let us at least know what the game is like.
And I wouldnt disagree with that at all, what is it you would like to know that they havent given. I cant really say anything as I guess I was already cross the line on the NDA and thanks to the Mod they stop me from violating it on these forums (for both the forums sake and mine).
The end game they dont talk about is something I would like to know also, the direction they are going in fits what I require out of a MMO at the minimum. TBH even if the end game isnt much raiding in a traditional sense, such as 10 man 25 man 40 man instances and it was only a 5 man thing for end game to start I would be ok with it for the 1st month or two. If they want pre-orders they should be more forth coming with end game info and straight forward, I can guarantee this is the marketing departments fault tho. Marketing is often a double edge sword because their goal almost always lines up with the share holders. This is mostly bad for the consumer and for the designers, a few things I would suggest to the people of power is present a "end game" segment on the game and provide enough detail for people to want to pre order, make sure you ask the correct questions or you will just get a bunch of crying.
Originally posted by Satyros So. With NDA still in place, the first true info we have on the game is a declaration of greed. Pay 20 euro more, or be race-locked. Pre-order or be faction-locked. Have denied companies my support for a lot less.
Nobody requires that you pre-order today. You know that game doesn't release until April right? So you have a long time to watch and decide once the NDA drops.
Take a deep breath.
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)
Originally posted by Elikal Originally posted by azzamasin I refuse to preorder anything without having either an NDA drop or full information on all systems and content avaibale in the game. There has been ZERO information about End-Game PvE systems and they want my money? I think not skippy!!!!!!
I would agree. However, my feeling is the pre-order is for people who have already played it.
At least at this point.
Originally posted by orbitxo your story was confusing and boring. i already bought the pack CE and very thrilled for the game release- its no wonder the reader base in this site is the way it is- the negativity from its writers= sometimes. lets face it-it cant be any worse than Defiance's DLC packs.... <.< this is just my opinion.
I thought the article pretty clearly highlighted Zenimax's flailing about as they said things about the game that turned out later to not be true, for reasons that would rankle even people who didn't care about the ES lore or any of the games. They said things were locked in place for balance reasons (an MMORPG thing, and possible), but are now going back on that for financial reasons. Either they don't really know what they are doing, or they do know what they are doing but are compromising it for money. Neither of these is a good thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by Satyros So. With NDA still in place, the first true info we have on the game is a declaration of greed. Pay 20 euro more, or be race-locked. Pre-order or be faction-locked. Have denied companies my support for a lot less.
That's what confuses me. They have given you the option to preorder, and yes NDA is still in effect. However, for those digital downloads, you have up until March 31st to preorder the game and still get the benefit of any faction for any race. Even after that you have the option for the Imperial edition I imagine. No one is forcing you to preorder the game now, nor is there a benefit or problem to preordering it now. If you think they're hiding something and just trying to get a quick cash grab by hiding behind NDA because they know the game is going to fail, than hold off on preordering till NDA is dropped and have proof. They aren't going to keep the NDA up till launch, and ever if they did, it would then be lifted at like March 27th, when the early access starts.
I think it is people either complaining to complain or have gotten screwed by one game that didn't do as well as they wanted so they assume all companies are greedy and out to rob them.
Get those nickles and dimes out, because ESO is going to want all of them..
Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by orbitxo your story was confusing and boring. i already bought the pack CE and very thrilled for the game release- its no wonder the reader base in this site is the way it is- the negativity from its writers= sometimes. lets face it-it cant be any worse than Defiance's DLC packs.... <.< this is just my opinion.
Sure it does, as were the dozens of threads that were going on since release of the actual news...
Regardless, I was more interested to read about ZOS takes on the whole thing.. I thought we finally had it... what a deception, only thing this "news" (really?) did is bring this whole flame war back! Good show!
Originally posted by CommoX I believe they were answering the players request for a more Elder Scrolls feel with this pre order bonus. I call it a bonus, because it costs no more than buying the box after the game launches. People who want to play are most likely going to pre order, people who are on the fence most likely won't. I have a feeling that this feature will most likely be available shortly after, if not at launch. I don't really see a controversy here, other than the fact that they did say it wasn't possible and then simply reverted that, most likely highly based on player feedback. Recent mmos have always given perks for pre purchasing and CEs, so again, the sky isn't falling. The races in the game aren't vastly different, you're just a slightly different humanoid. Under the armor no one really knows what race you are, there aren't small or large races, the Imperial race is not vastly different from the others - Now if the bonus race was Dwemer/Dwarf I could see the uproar, but this, not so much. Don't give the player what they want, they cry about it, give them what they want, they cry about it. How does anyone win?
But the thing is they didn't give us what we wanted per-say. Sure many of us on the Bethesda forums(including me) as for no faction locks and imperials because it just seemed unnecessary to not include the two. And to ZOS's credit they did something about, but no one asked for them to monetize it, no figured if they did listen monetization would be an option. Because the decision to include them would be so trivial and easy none of us imagined they would make us pay extra. In a sense, we asked for something, they listened, but didn't consider this might just be a gesture of good will. What the author is getting at is spot on, they're considering things purely from a business perspective rather than a community one, and that's going to bit them in the ass because for any game to thrive, especially an MMO, it needs a loyal community, but apparently ZOS does not see that, only dollar signs. And I don't blame the development team, I doubt they had anything to do with this and may be just as upset, its just unfortunate that they're work might potentially suffer because their marketing division is full of dicks.
18 year MMO veteran Retired PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Originally posted by Arglebargle If ESO doesn't provide race unlocks in their store, they are creating a opportunity for a black market in pre-order accounts or codes. They may not care about this, but if it remains an exclusive, it will have some increased value over a post release account.
Not only Race Unlocks but Transfers to other Factions. having content hidden behind a pay wall is not what the Devs said would happen and having exclusive races and factions locks are content.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by Lehox People need to inform themselves better. This Any Faction Any Race Feature is just ONCE available, its a kind of immigrating races, makes sense.
Funny you say that and yet offer no link to back it up. I went to Teso official page under their pre-orders and it says no such thing. What it does say is "PLAY ANY RACE IN ANY ALLIANCE" with the tooltip stating "Your characters can join any of the alliances, no matter which race you choose." You might notice it says "characters"
Originally posted by brearos I'll wait for it to get F2P
Just like swotor the same thing will happen to this game. I know alot of Elderscrolls fans and non of them want to play an mmo. In fact the only people that i know that want to play it are on this site and playing the beta. It will be interesting to see what happens to this game after release. It will be all the rage just like any other release but after that. This whole thing seems like grab as much money as you can out the gate. And that is not saying good things about this game to me.