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Free Market Gaming - P2P, P2W, B2P, F2P ETC - How it works. (In the real world)
Abuz0r
Member UncommonPosts: 550
Gaming is like anything else in life, pick your poison. Whether it's drugs, gambling, alcohol, or that racy internet stuff, a little of anything isn't that bad, but dig in too deep and it'll consume you.
The idea that a company should choose a payment model is similar to the idea that a company should choose a game model. We all know that game models = wow clone, so every game is trying to break the classic game model.
Subscriptions allow for a controlled payment model, where both the end user and the company can predict their month to month costs / income. They satisfy all but the most self-entitled gamer who feels the need to get something for free with the option of rewarding the producer. As a rule, subscription games usually have a tad better quality, and much better customer support, considering the people playing are paying to be there. There's also typically a slightly better enforcement of the rules, again, since the company doesn't want it's players to walk.
Buy 2 Play is the idea that you pay $50 for a game, then you never have to pay another nickel unless you want to put feathers on your armor or something. That's all well and good? Sounds to me like a cash grab, after the initial sale, what interest does the company have in maintaining players? In the real world, the only reason companies make games is to make money. After the money is made, and they still have this monstrous IT / internet bill, do you expect them to just sit on their initial profits, bleed to death, and call it a success? No- like GW1, they introduce updates that kill the player base and get them to move on, then make another new game to make another cash grab.
Free 2 Play - yeah right. Some are worse than others, but 80% of the F2P mmo's in this sites list start you off with a treasure chest full of game-spoiling cash shop items to wet your appetite, and from there you choose how much money you want to spend based on how much fun you want to have. The games put time consuming obstacles in your way, long travels, steep grinds, harsh enemies, all with simple cash shop solutions. It's like going to a clinic where they inject you with various illnesses and then offer to let you ride out the symptoms or cure it for a fee.
Pay 2 win is a patch that can be added to any game who's company is struggling financially, or needs a quick cash grab. That potion that makes you crit nonstop for 3 minutes, or that scroll that stuns all enemies within 30m for 15 seconds. Only $5 means you can make your opponents rage and add to your win record!!! Woot.
Anyways, I'm biased, I trust p2p games more, I know they want to maintain me as a customer, they don't want to offend me or rip me off. Even if the game sucks, I'm only out the first month and the purchase. I've always noticed that free 2 play games are all modeled around their cash shop and how best to get you to spend money, where p2p games are more focused on content and questing and fun.
Just think about it from the companies perspective, they spend all this time making a 3d game where you can log in and now they need to get money out of your pocket, so that becomes the entire focus. There's 2 ways, entertain you and get you to give them a few bucks each month, or copy paste a chinese grinder and put sparkles in the item mall. What sounds easier to you?
We all have this dream of the all-consuming MMO life-ruiner that costs nothing and is the best game of all time, having a donate button on the main page where we can support them if we're in that mood. These games have come and gone, primarily due to money problems, and the people who made them learned their lesson.
Comments
Speaking of phones, do you have a monthly phone plan that includes unlimited text/minutes and a set allowance of data, or do you pay by the minute and/or text message?
Which has the better value, and why?
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
It is completely dependant on how the individual plays. Which is why I disagree with pretty much every pOint he made.
You can disagree in THEORY all you want, but in PRACTICE, my points are undeniable
I'm sure if you comb through the list of games, you can find a game that breaks the mold, but that's what you'll have to do, comb.
"Anyways, I'm biased, I trust p2p games more, I know they want to maintain me as a customer, they don't want to offend me or rip me off. Even if the game sucks, I'm only out the first month and the purchase. I've always noticed that free 2 play games are all modeled around their cash shop and how best to get you to spend money, where p2p games are more focused on content and questing and fun."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What does any of this have to do with a free market? I was expecting an analysis from an economic viewpoint. Something along the lines of how each payment model attracts different groups of people, how each payment model overlaps the other and how the payment models can affect the game's mechanics rather than a brief overview and then an editorial.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
You weren't really expecting that on this site where you ?
I was expecting all the typical stereo types of p2p floats around on angel wings pooping fairy dust on it's players and everyone is happy and everything else is a spawn of the devil with every player standing there drooling with their wallets open.
I wasn't disappointed at all. I almost find these sad little posts kind of funny.
You know, after the first few sub sentences I thought: "Oh, an unbiased breakdown of the payment model"
http://tsaoshin.deviantart.com/art/Part-of-Your-No-388260981
So to put it bluntly without the pay base fan boyism
Sub = Companies can spend more for updates because they can budget better, sometimes cash shop for aesthetic items but minimal income from it.
B2P = Box sales are driven by grassroots and word of mouth growth to not "burn out" sales growth additional cash shop subsidizes and allows for small content updates after the honeymoon period. Income somewhat unstable but usually 1st year is solid
F2P = Cash shop is primary source of income. Initial investment in the came is lower than the others, highly unstable income but maximizes potential profits until specific changes in player base. Only keeps a small team on payroll for many small but rapid aesthetic updates and usually employs level faster via cash shop or the Gem Combining Pyramid of Probability. (PWI uses the combing pyramid for a lot of there supplementary profits.)
Freemium = Sub + one of the others, like a free trial but significantly more locked down, some content/features behind pay wall. Income has a portion that can be budgeted for while a separate portion can potential provide an additional unstable income bonus.
I am fine with all models, they have their place and some games just aren't built to be F2P and that's fine. Anyone who can't see that all the options are viable business models either doesn't understand business or they refuse to be wrong in their hating.
So, having said that, time for the biased part. I don't like the Gem Combining Pyramid of Probability like PWI uses, that is all.
Well, I was hopeful. I know I shouldn't have been, but I was.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What does that to do with MMOs?
I don't pay for MMOs at all ... there is no free (even limited) phone plans out there to compare.Here's an odd, although perhaps obvious, observation I've made regarding the F2P vs Subscription debate:
I find it unusual that proponents of F2P systems declaring the subscription model dead, tend to point to Freemium game conversions as their proof, while these Freemium games in current form make what might be a significant portion of their income *selling subscriptions*.
*grin*
To me the ideal model from a purely consumer point of view (ignoring the retardedly obvious but unworkable completely free game) is to simply pay for content as it is produced like TSW or GW1 . Realistically though a company has to pay for some infrastructure though so a small sub fee on top of this is reasonable but I do prefer most money spent on a game to be directly buying content. I like lifetime subscriptions as an option although they can be risky both for the player and the company.
You're absolutely right that you need to provide direct incentive for a company to keep producing quality content. This is my main complaint against most F2P/B2P models. The people who support F2P games don't tend to prioritize the kind of content I like in games and since they're the ones paying they get to dictate what content the company will focus on.
To liken your MMO play style to a phone plan would be like you going from Verizon taking advantage of their trial plan (Assuming they offered one) ,cancelling it, then going to AT&T for their, then T-Moble, then Virgin. Every 30 days getting a whole new phone and new number to go with it. Nobody knows who you are, knows your number, you have nothing in your phone, no contacts, no apps, no data no nothing because you won't have that phone for very long. You certainly can't use the phone the way it was meant ot. and Noone else wants to use a phone that way yet you'd still run around day in and day out bragging how you get free phones.
I don't think it would be that hard to come up with something better than an opinion piece. I can basically just cr@p something out off the cuff right now.
Monetization Components - There are three main components to video game monetization systems. The first, and original system was a fee paid to use the game, called the Box Price. This is probably the best known as it has been around the longest, and is the most similar to purchases of other products. The second is the Subscription Fee, which became possible and relevant when online gaming became possible and relevant. Initially as hourly fee since online connectivity was charged by the hour, it has settled around the $15 per month level as a "standard". The third, and newest system is the Cash Shop, where players can exchange money for a wide variety of game content, from in game items such as weapons to access to specific game areas or "power ups" to increase leveling speed. There is a fourth type of monetization system, but it dovetails in with the Cash Shop system and so may not be a separate category. This is the Downloadable Content (DLC). This is generally reserved for game expansions in the console space, but in MMOs it is generally content that can be purchased through the Cash Shop.
Monetization Systems - The monetization systems used in the MMO space are a mixture of the three Monetization Components listed above. There is the "P2P" system, comprised of a Box Price and a Subscription. In the past ten years or so, the P2P monetization system has also included a Cash Shop, however only Box Price and Subscription are required for access to the game. The "B2P" system, popularized by Guild Wars involves a Box Price and a Cash Shop, with no subscription. The Cash Shop is not a requirement for access to the game, but the Box Price is. The last widely used system is the "F2P" system. With the F2P system, there are no requirements for access to the game, but the game includes a Cash Shop, that may also offer a Subscription with additional benefits at a better price than simply buying items from the Cash Shop.
And so on. Surely if I can just spit this out, someone who felt like putting some time and effort into it could come up with something that follows with the Markets that each system supports, the overlaps between them and finally the effects on game play. Bah. You're probably right. Even if people did read it, very few people would comment on it because it wasn't trying to insult anyone or start a fight.
**
There could have been a bit about how in games players can either pay for things to do, things to possess or things to possess that enhance or supply things to do and how each monetization model affects those three areas within games that use each of the monetization systems.
I am really disappointed here. Bah!
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
+1 to the above. -1 to the OP.
First of all, I'd prefer seeing some actual data, your opinion is like an asshole, everyone's got one.
On that note, B2P is exactly what it says and there's really no hidden agenda. The OP said it! Guild Wars was doing this before it was even called B2P, so it's not like it's anything new, or there's some great scheme behind it, aside from the obvious conspiracy theory thrown out there about them shaking people out. I think that GW2 shows that this can still be a viable model. Even with some rough road, they gutted through, delivered some content updates, and must be running on a shoestring budget, which is where cash shop needs to come in. Even still, the "risk" you elude to is really no different than any subscription MMO. If it sucks, it's going to suck, don't buy it. If you buy a retail copy of a subscription MMO, knowing full-well that it sucks, then that's a YP.
F2P doesn't mean "Fast to Play" If I want to throw hours at a game and remain free, I can. It's no more a lie than any other Free application. Shoot, I remember having to wait like 300 seconds for WinZip until it told me how many days I'd had it, before I could unzip something. You wanna talk about a really hostile business model? Try holding your computer hostage. Tell me about "Free" stuff. How many "things" do you know of which are actually free? Nevermind that, this is a company! How did you think they were going to make money? In the end, F2P gives me the ability to play something with my kids that I enjoy and that they enjoy, without having to pay a monthly fee for something that they may only pick up once and a while, and when they do, it's probably just to fly their level 60 around level 5 zones and one-shot the local wildlife. That's free to me, and there's no way in hell I'm paying $15 a month for that.
P2W - Games which are overtly P2W don't hide it in any special way. People often say F2P games are P2W with really unintelligent arguments, but they're mostly bullshit excuses like "With money, I can level up faster". Very few games actually sell the best in-game gear through a cash shop. It would destroy any reason of playing the actual game.
P2P - Please don't let P2P off the hook. You're acting like P2P games are the only ones without problems. Remember CoH? No? Well it shut down, even though there was significant outcry from the community to leave it up. They wouldn't even sell the rights to the game. They just pulled the plug. Also, WoW is now beginning to monetize heavily. They were also, recently, hiring a monetization specialist, so you know that more devious and dubious plots are afoot. However, apart from selling mounts (which is shitty because I would really like to get my hands on some of those mounts, but you can't in the game), they also pre-sold Diablo 3 to their WoW user base, or gave it away with your commitment to a 1-year subscription. Then D3 was shit! Also, the problem with subscription games is that if you don't exit early, if you're locked in for a year, 2 years, then you're locked in for life. Let me see, I've got 5 expansions and 8 years worth of subscriptions sunk into this game. Am I going to buy the next expansion? Naaaah, you know what, that $2000 or whatever was well-spent, I can just walk away. Only you can't! Granted, WoW is an anomaly, but it's not untrue or unfair. Oh, and speaking of expansions, how about those paid expansions? Oh, and about P2W, do you really think that P2P can't be P2W? Crap, I can pay some off-shore gold farmer a couple hundred bucks to level me up and deck me right out. That's been around forever!
For myself, I actually prefer solid F2P games with a P2P option, with all the unlocks and perks (SWTOR & RIFT style). I want to sample, and if I like it, I'd prefer to subscribe for the perks. Once I'm done, though, I'd like to have the ability to quit, go back to free and still be able to play the game with my kids, as mentioned above.
Just remember that P2P isn't the golden boy you're making it out to be. There have been some pretty nasty stories in P2P-based games.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
tldr!
f2p sucks!!! everything should be p2p!!!
I've played games (B2P) like Diablo 2 or even Skyrim for a longer time than supposedly "quality" MMOs on a P2P scheme. How is that not a failure of the P2P model - that titles with no recurring subscriptions can offer a more durable and a fresher gaming experience?
About MMOs, P2P games also partake in the horrible "cash grab" as demonstrated by Elder Scrolls Online (or pretty much any P2P MMO with a cash shop).
OP, thou art wrong.
TL;DR: P2P isn't your friend.
MMORPGs are much more expensive to produce than comparable single player games. That expense is going to limit the content, mechanics and graphics in the game, regardless of the monetization system used.
And really, any monetization system is part of the same group of things. I.e. those methods employed to get money from players in a manner that maximizes the amount of money earned versus the number of players who have played, are playing and who will play the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
In practice your points are not valid.
It's not all that black & white. P2P did offer better deal before, now this isn't the case anymore. No company can guarantee you taht for the amount of money you spent for initial content will be delivered when you break it even with subs. So if you keep paying 15$ a month and you're still not getting any new content then I don't see I'm getting my moneys worth out of it at all.
Neither is interest in making money with B2P games as easy as "initial cash grab" - I'd guess it's anything but. GW1 didn't break anything apart, they actually had stand-alone expansions where you can decide if you want to go trough the new continent and new content or not. So you could've still play the game as nothing happened and they relied on cosmetic cash shop. They rely on cash shop in GW2 as well, because without that they wouldn't be able to deliver new stuff and keep the game running. Tho, I'm not sure why you made your assumption of company not having any interest for keeping the game alive after the box sales when you've got evidence sitting right in front of you... GW1 is still going, GW2 seems to be doing fine and even TSW is making its way upwards after the P2P disaster.
Also, there's a lot of examples where P2P is simply failing because there's no way people are willing to cash out just like that long enough so devs can make a profit so they turn to other payment models (which seems to be more suitable and does work better for them). So I guess P2P is not the best value for your money and it doesn't represent the messiah of all gaming payment models anymore and I think it was about time that happened because even with all P2P devs started introducing cash shops with microtransactions so I guess I wasn't getting everything for free when I was paying a sub and since devs aren't even considering lowering the sub prices (who knows that might just be the next holy grail) they set with bleeding subs and then they just switch to freemium.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Precisely.
Yet, games like WoW allow players to play even if they don't buy the latest expansion. They'll miss out on the latest features and perks, but can play like they wish...perfect for level locked twink accounts.
Each pay method has the ultimate end -- have to pay for the upkeep in the game, and devs employed. How they deliver it is a perception of value.
I prefer subscriptions because I'm "old skool" and see games as a service like utilities. I pay for access to the themepark, and for customer service when the themepark says, "Hey, you're a bot because you mined for 7 days straight!!!" to prove otherwise.
But no game can exist for "free", and depending on a few whales to keep a game free, is how the internet is littered with the remains of dead MMOs. Devs pull titles as soon as they reached their initial investment and they see the game isn't pulling in enough to keep them paid.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.