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[Editorial] Elder Scrolls Online: Thoughts on the Collector's Edition Controversy

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Comments

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. 

    If you honestly think that, you haven't paid much attention to Elder Scrolls lore.

    Thats why i wrote 'for this particular game' . You know where they divided all races into 3 factions. I never said that this was a good idea. Just that Zenimax is contradicting themselves (with as reason more $$).

  • killion81killion81 A City, MIPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    MMORPG.com staff is becoming a little too apologetic for my taste with reasoning like this :

    All kidding aside, a lot of players are upset that pre-ordering the game allows you to play as any race on any faction. This is a buyer beware society and players should be allowed to make discretionary purchases wisely. I get that. ZeniMax also has the right to run their business how they see fit. They have a break even number that they need to achieve and they are trying to increase day one sales to get to that objective. I don’t find this greedy.

    No one disputes that gaming companies, which are commercial companies ofc, try to make as much profit. Or that this is particular greedy. They create a new product to their best of abilities and try to sell it as much as possible. This is normal.

    The obvious greedy part is the bit where they cash in on something that according to their own words and vision, breaks the lore for their own game. Free faction choice. And then put that behind a paid gate only to be purchased before any real review of the game has hit the media.

    It can't be more obvious then this. It is obviously done like this to push more preorders over the counter. It is smart, because they know that most players will be faction locked so they can still say that the lore works.

    Anyway, you guys (MMORPG.com staff) have grown soft. Nowadays you seem to only dare to critisize easy targets. Like your readers (with 'jokes') and games that put too many uncovered skin in a game from a company that no one cares about in the US.

     

    I agree.  There is a difference between journalism and veiled advertisement.  However, it's pretty difficult to find real journalism anywhere in modern times, so maybe I'm asking too much.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by JJ82

    If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

     

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. Just so they can sell a few extra pre orders?

    Not to mention that this is day 1 DLC for a SUBBASED game. That is one step beyond day 1 DLC for a boxpriced game. 

     

    You do realize that all sub games add extra races in expansion packs that cost money ON TOP OF the sub? So having this imperial race as a CE bonus really does not feel like such a big deal at all, 1 race besides the rest of the 9, one race that does not even belong in any of the alliances and all this "day one DLC" bullshit does not prevent ANY content from ANY player besides the skin they choose to wear.

     

    The more I think about it the more whiny bitches these "day one DLC" beggars feel like. Dont have extra 20? Choose a different skin or go play F2P games.

    Are you sure you quoted the right person. Because in there I didnt mention the imperial race, just the free faction choice (for whatever race you pick).

    And be careful with namecalling. I don't report easily, but I have my limits.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. 

    If you honestly think that, you haven't paid much attention to Elder Scrolls lore.

    Would this be the same lore that states that there were no emperors after the fall of the second empire until Septim took over? Or the same lore that states the empires lands were only attacked directly once and it was stopped at Marrowind?

    Doh!

    Please.  There are no real Emperors in ESO.  There is just the ability for whoever is the bloodiest killer in the currently ascendant faction to call himself Emperor until somebody else takes more scalps.  It's just tin-pot wannabe dictators with delusions of grandeur.

    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. 

    If you honestly think that, you haven't paid much attention to Elder Scrolls lore.

    Thats why i wrote 'for this particular game' . You know where they divided all races into 3 factions. I never said that this was a good idea. Just that Zenimax is contradicting themselves (with as reason more $$).

    They may be contradicting their prior marketing statements, but that isn't the same thing as contradicting lore.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. 

    If you honestly think that, you haven't paid much attention to Elder Scrolls lore.

    Would this be the same lore that states that there were no emperors after the fall of the second empire until Septim took over? Or the same lore that states the empires lands were only attacked directly once and it was stopped at Marrowind?

    Doh!

     

    Name one themepark with big IP that has not twisted their own original lore to hell and back for gameplay and content purposes. Warcraft lore got butchered and even retconned by WoW, Warhammer lore got flushed down the toilet with WAR, TOR made up some silly gamey lore for gameplay purposes. It's just something that is going to happen with themeparks, no need to try and use it as a weapon against some particular game.

  • revslaverevslave ..., NYPosts: 154Member Uncommon

    I have no issue with what ZeniMax sells or offers, they are well with in there right to change their policy and/or payment model at any time.  However I believe that this pre-order goes against the spirit of there initial statement of why they decided to use a P2P model. There is NO controversy, but an  acknowledgement  that MMO players  are willing to pay for content (cosmetic or otherwise) that they enjoy. This is a hobby not an expression of plutocracy.  It is your right as a consumer to either buy or not buy the game and vote so to speak  with your wallet.  

    Besides it is only a game, life does go on.

    Cheers 

    Rev. 

    image

  • lunatiquezlunatiquez San Fransisco, CAPosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. 

    If you honestly think that, you haven't paid much attention to Elder Scrolls lore.

    Thats why i wrote 'for this particular game' . You know where they divided all races into 3 factions. I never said that this was a good idea. Just that Zenimax is contradicting themselves (with as reason more $$).

    They may be contradicting their prior marketing statements, but that isn't the same thing as contradicting lore.

    You're absolutely fine with them contradicting their own statements?

    So, it's also fine if they were to contradict something else in the future?

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by JJ82

    If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

     

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. Just so they can sell a few extra pre orders?

    Not to mention that this is day 1 DLC for a SUBBASED game. That is one step beyond day 1 DLC for a boxpriced game. 

     

    You do realize that all sub games add extra races in expansion packs that cost money ON TOP OF the sub? So having this imperial race as a CE bonus really does not feel like such a big deal at all, 1 race besides the rest of the 9, one race that does not even belong in any of the alliances and all this "day one DLC" bullshit does not prevent ANY content from ANY player besides the skin they choose to wear.

     

    The more I think about it the more whiny bitches these "day one DLC" beggars feel like. Dont have extra 20? Choose a different skin or go play F2P games.

    Are you sure you quoted the right person. Because in there I didnt mention the imperial race, just the free faction choice (for whatever race you pick).

    And be careful with namecalling. I don't report easily, but I have my limits.

     

    The free faction choise cannot be a DLC since it does not cost anything, just preorder the game, cancel if you dont feel like playing after the NDA gets lifted.

     

    If I get tempbanned because I speak what I think and how I feel about this, then I welcome the ban with open arms. I have limits too, and I've just about had it with the loud whining and raging over issues that barely can even be argued to exist.

     

    Day one DLC my ass. Free pre-order feature, and CE skin.

  • deveilbladdeveilblad Saint-Constant, QCPosts: 177Member

    How are people even okay with this ? I just don't....what... ?

     

    This is like if Blizzard had released Mist of Pandaria, but the only way to play a Pandaren was to buy the Collector's Edition ? You'd have found that okay ? How are people okay with this ?

     

    Bill Murphy, just tell us you were paid by Zenimax to write this article lol... How can you defend a move like this ? You'd have written the exact same article if Blizzard had locked pandas behind collector's edition ? really ?

     

    (I took WoW because it's the most known MMO)

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn

    Name one themepark with big IP that has not twisted their own original lore to hell and back for gameplay and content purposes. Warcraft lore got butchered and even retconned by WoW, Warhammer lore got flushed down the toilet with WAR, TOR made up some silly gamey lore for gameplay purposes. It's just something that is going to happen with themeparks, no need to try and use it as a weapon against some particular game.

    1. WoW is an abomination. Congrats?

    2. Warhammer was also made by another DaoC designer who built War around DaoC style gameplay. Sound familiar at all?

    3. And I HATE YOU FOR DOING THIS, making it sound like I am defending SWTOR in any way, Making up lore where there is a gap, a little of it at that, is not CHANGING LORE. There was actually nothing in the timeframe of SWTOR lore wise and what they added did not conflict with lore after that timeframe.

    So, 1 point of yours is wrong, and the other two points prove that TESO doing it is a BAD IDEA since the are following in Warhammers footsteps in far too many ways, as well as the thing that caused MMOs to become stagnant, WoW. Thanks for the help in proving me right.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by inemosz

    You're absolutely fine with them contradicting their own statements?

    So, it's also fine if they were to contradict something else in the future?

    Honestly?  Any time I hear an employee say anything about a game, I take it with a bucket of salt and assume there is at least a fifty percent chance it is nothing but marketing nonsense.  I only judge a game by what is actually in the game, not by what people who work for the company say about it outside the game.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by JJ82

    If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

     

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. Just so they can sell a few extra pre orders?

    Not to mention that this is day 1 DLC for a SUBBASED game. That is one step beyond day 1 DLC for a boxpriced game.  

    You do realize that all sub games add extra races in expansion packs that cost money ON TOP OF the sub?

    So Expansions are now the same as pre-orders. As I have pointed out before, people will excuse anything no matter what with the craziest excuses imaginable.

     

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • ZandilZandil templestowePosts: 234Member Uncommon

    Don't like it don't play it, Simples 

     

    I tested it and i'll play it and i'll enjoy it, my choice, keyword here CHOICE.

    image
  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Kuinn

    Name one themepark with big IP that has not twisted their own original lore to hell and back for gameplay and content purposes. Warcraft lore got butchered and even retconned by WoW, Warhammer lore got flushed down the toilet with WAR, TOR made up some silly gamey lore for gameplay purposes. It's just something that is going to happen with themeparks, no need to try and use it as a weapon against some particular game.

    1. WoW is an abomination. Congrats?

    2. Warhammer was also made by another DaoC designer who built War around DaoC style gameplay. Sound familiar at all?

    3. And I HATE YOU FOR DOING THIS, making it sound like I am defending SWTOR in any way, Making up lore where there is a gap, a little of it at that, is not CHANGING LORE. There was actually nothing in the timeframe of SWTOR lore wise and what they added did not conflict with lore after that timeframe.

    So, 1 point of yours is wrong, and the other two points prove that TESO doing it is a BAD IDEA since the are following in Warhammers footsteps in far too many ways, as well as the thing that caused MMOs to become stagnant, WoW. Thanks for the help in proving me right.

     

    3. They pulled completely out of ass lore with Star Wars skin on it for gameplay purposes, but I guess it's that much different just so you can bash TESO.

     

    So, you have a mission, congrats?

  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon

    A non-faction specific cosmetic human variety isn't content in a game that already has Bretons, Nords, and Redguards.

    Yes, if this was a Wild West game and they locked Native Americans or if this was a British Isles game and they locked Saxons; the argument that race = content would make sense.

    Context, people.  You want to call your character Tiberius so badly and wear cosmetically modified armor?  Spend the $20 for the extra perks.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by JJ82

    If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

     

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. Just so they can sell a few extra pre orders?

    Not to mention that this is day 1 DLC for a SUBBASED game. That is one step beyond day 1 DLC for a boxpriced game.  

    You do realize that all sub games add extra races in expansion packs that cost money ON TOP OF the sub?

    So Expansions are now the same as pre-orders. As I have pointed out before, people will excuse anything no matter what with the craziest excuses imaginable.

    Wut? I dont even know how you managed to mix pre-orders to expansions with what I said. Ease on the hate a bit so you dont see things that are not there pal.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deveilblad

    How are people even okay with this ? I just don't....what... ?

     

    This is like if Blizzard had released Mist of Pandaria, but the only way to play a Pandaren was to buy the Collector's Edition ? You'd have found that okay ? How are people okay with this ?

     

    Bill Murphy, just tell us you were paid by Zenimax to write this article lol... How can you defend a move like this ? You'd have written the exact same article if Blizzard had locked pandas behind collector's edition ? really ?

     

    (I took WoW because it's the most known MMO)

    Yes, that would have been fine.

    Also, it's slightly different from an expansion which revolves around a specific race with that race being a primary feature of the expansion.

    It would have been more like Vanilla WoW launching with 8 races and then offering High Elves as a playable race for CE bonus. Cause that's why Zenimax did. 9 races to choose from. +1 for CE.

  • GhabboGhabbo Buenos AiresPosts: 251Member Uncommon
    And I remember when F2P was controversial, lol
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    The obvious greedy part is the bit where they cash in on something that according to their own words and vision, breaks the lore for their own game. Free faction choice. And then put that behind a paid gate only to be purchased before any real review of the game has hit the media.

    The issue is not breaking the lore of their own game. This is the problem of some people because they want info and the game companies try to accommodate but they really need the ability to change as they see the need.

    They should have the right to change their game any way they want prior to release. Period. Well, they should have the right to change the game and be up front at the time they take money. They can't take money and "then" change because that becomes false advertising. Which they didn't do in this case.

    quite frankly I think game companies should just keep quiet until they have their game set in stone. less complaining and crying.

    The "issue" really is that they then allow certain perks dependent upon different pay schemes that seem to fly in the face of what a sub game is supposed to offer. That at least I can understand and understand why some players are pissed.

     

     

     

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Of course its greedy. An offering like a special more powerful is the sort of thing you find in the cash shops of 2bit pay to win F2P games. Worse still is that TESO requires box + sub & you still won't have access to everything unless you pay extra for the box, its pure greed.

    I bet the moment TESO converts to F2P (& it inevitably will) they will probably sell an imperial race unlock & a faction unlock from day one.
  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheCrow2k
    Of course its greedy. An offering like a special more powerful is the sort of thing you find in the cash shops of 2bit pay to win F2P games. Worse still is that TESO requires box + sub & you still won't have access to everything unless you pay extra for the box, its pure greed.

    I bet the moment TESO converts to F2P (& it inevitably will) they will probably sell an imperial race unlock & a faction unlock from day one.

    How is the Imperial Race more powerful?

    People have some weird misconceptions. It's just another humanoid race, it's not like Zenimax is giving them an iwin button.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ghern
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    I pre-ordered the Imperial boxed edition.

    It is an AWESOME value actually, I had set aside $250 for the CE and I ended up with $150 left over, so that's pretty cool.

    ZOS have given the TES fans FIRST-PERSON COMBAT and REMOVED RACE LOCKS.

    They are finally doing it RIGHT, catering to the TES fan-base over all others.  Screw MMO nomads (2-3mil) and screw DAOC players (250k).  Their numbers don't even come close to TES fans (15mil+) and they wouldn't be loyal to a TES game anyway.  TES fanbase was the only hope this game ever had of having a large, stable community for more than a few months.

    GOOD JOB ZOS!

     

    You sound exactly like a lot of SWTOR fanboi's prior to that launch.

    I would temper that excitement a bit until we all actually see what that game is like. Many letdowns over the past several years.

    Oh, no, I'm fully aware this thing is going F2P after a year at the most, but as a massive self-admitted TES fanboi, it is gonna be HELLA fun in the mean time.

     

    Also...I've played 3 betas of ESO and am well aware of what I'm getting.

     
  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by JJ82

    1. WoW is an abomination. Congrats?

    2. Warhammer was also made by another DaoC designer who built War around DaoC style gameplay. Sound familiar at all?

    3. And I HATE YOU FOR DOING THIS, making it sound like I am defending SWTOR in any way, Making up lore where there is a gap, a little of it at that, is not CHANGING LORE. There was actually nothing in the timeframe of SWTOR lore wise and what they added did not conflict with lore after that timeframe.

    So, 1 point of yours is wrong, and the other two points prove that TESO doing it is a BAD IDEA since the are following in Warhammers footsteps in far too many ways, as well as the thing that caused MMOs to become stagnant, WoW. Thanks for the help in proving me right. 

    3. They pulled completely out of ass lore with Star Wars skin on it for gameplay purposes, but I guess it's that much different just so you can bash TESO. 

    So, you have a mission, congrats?

    Look at my post history, I cant STAND SWTOR.

    Now tell me some of the things they changed with lore to make SWTOR.

    And yes, my mission is to point out the lies, flaws and all around crappiness of any game I see attempting to lie to hide it, by misleading players or abusing IPs. Hell I loved SWG but I can say a lot that was bad about it, the entire Jedi idea was a massive mistake just as an example because the game was during a time when there were only a few Jedi that escaped the slaughter and most of them gave up their Jedi ways.

    And as I pointed out, WoW was an abomination and War was made into the mess it was thanks to Former DaoC designers trying to recapture what they thought was glory, and now history is repeating itself with TESO.

    You just don't like the fact that not everyone kisses up to developers every idiotic idea.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    This. The free faction choice for a price makes their lore for this particilar game a joke. Just so they can sell a few extra pre orders?

    Not to mention that this is day 1 DLC for a SUBBASED game. That is one step beyond day 1 DLC for a boxpriced game.  

    You do realize that all sub games add extra races in expansion packs that cost money ON TOP OF the sub?

    So Expansions are now the same as pre-orders. As I have pointed out before, people will excuse anything no matter what with the craziest excuses imaginable.

    Wut? I dont even know how you managed to mix pre-orders to expansions with what I said. Ease on the hate a bit so you dont see things that are not there pal.

    Right, you replied to someone pointing out that the CE is allowing faction choice as a pre-order with "sub games add extra races"  and after being pointed out that you are flat out wrong in your comparison you want to pretend you didn't do it. The quotes are right there^

    Extra races in expansions have nothing to do with an extra race in a pre-order. One is an exclusive, the other comes with every purchase because its what the game is based off of, the expansion race, area and quests. Not even apples to oranges, more like apples to pizza.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    quite frankly I think game companies should just keep quiet until they have their game set in stone. less complaining and crying.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

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