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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Need More Heals?

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,634MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

For years now, though not the original “trinity”, MMOs have used a formula based around three play types called the tank, DPS, and healer. ArenaNet saw the terrible plague of LFG spam, and tried to remedy it with a new formula in Guild Wars 2. While you will never be looking for a certain profession in order to make a dungeon group, some still feel the lack of a true healing profession is hurting the game. But was attempt to rid us of the trinity a flop?

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Need More Heals?

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Many of the professions from from the original game made it to Guild Wars 2, but the Monk was left behind.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi LONDONPosts: 661Member Uncommon
    It was a flop indeed, we should decide if we want to be hybrid or specialized... they just took our choice!
  • NomadMorlockNomadMorlock N/A, VAPosts: 593Member Uncommon

    There is a lot of merit in specialized roles.  They walked away from this and the end result is a crazy free for all where everyone is a hybrid and group coordination is gone.

    Worst mistake of the game.

  • CelciusCelcius Posts: 1,001Member Uncommon
    It was not a flop obviously, as GW2 is a huge success. On the other hand, it obviously needs work, but I don't feel any of the game's problems related to the trinity are actually related to roles. They are more related to encounter difficulty and build variety. 
  • TekaelonTekaelon Brookhaven, MSPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    GW1 never used the traditional trinity mechanic either but there was healing and some CC. The system worked really well in that game! GWA2 is just a mad dash for dps with self heals. Fun at first, then you start to realize something is missing.
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon

    I really wish they would add a class similar to the protection monk GW1.   It doesn't have to be a tank or a healer but simply focused on assisting allies in need and mitigating damage.  There are ways to spec as a more support oriented character in GW2 but you never really succeed in achieving the experience a real support player or healer would like to have. 

    The problem is as soon as they add any class with a remotely greater focus on support and or healing it will most likely become a "required" class for all group content thereby breaking the game design philosophy of Anet.  The only way around this would be to introduce several of these classes and or add new weapon lines providing some of these skills to the base classes.  One other option might be an epic quest chain to greater specialize your character towards an aspect of combat.  I know Colin Johansen has been actively involved in the discussions on the forums about creating sub classes like a specialization of sorts and it seems quite likely it will happen.  However it confuses me why they would go this route since they scrapped multiclassing from GW1 due to the same balance issues this would appear to bring up.

    Steam: Neph

  • Training_DummyTraining_Dummy Beginning Area, CAPosts: 12Member

    Assuming they don't back down from disallowing healing skills in the utility slots:

    1. Allow block/evade skills in the utility slots
    2. Create heals from combo fields.  There are some now, but create more possibilities with combo fields.
  • MugiMugiMugiMugi BorPosts: 16Member

    The reason why I quited GW2 was mainly due the fact that it lacks suppot classes in any way of form, I've never been intrested to play DD and I'm still not intrested to play DD. Good for those who find the game fun but for me it just lacked total gameplay depth.

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    if this game had the "trinity" I would be playing it right now.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    I would argue GW2 is a success because of its IP. It was never going to be a complete fail with or without features and character types/systems. I could never get into it and almost regret my purchase.

    Generally I would avoid a game without a holy trinity , it makes the game more interesting as I have different types of class and specs to explore.

    The only FPS MMO PS2 has tanks/medics/dps classes. That tells me alot.

  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamPosts: 367Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MugiMugi

    The reason why I quited GW2 was mainly due the fact that it lacks suppot classes in any way of form, I've never been intrested to play DD and I'm still not intrested to play DD. Good for those who find the game fun but for me it just lacked total gameplay depth.

    Really? you say you played GW2 but also claim that the game lacks support class's?

    Plenty of the class's in GW2 can be built for support, and they are really good fun to play that way too.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.


    In this regard City of X did a way better job of giving classes non traditional ways to support a gameplay while making it more obvious and fun when we killed bosses.

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  • LonzoLonzo GoettingenPosts: 235Member Uncommon
    I dont play GW2 becAuse of I can not play a true healer. I am a dedicated heal player

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  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celcius
    It was not a flop obviously, as GW2 is a huge success. On the other hand, it obviously needs work, but I don't feel any of the game's problems related to the trinity are actually related to roles. They are more related to encounter difficulty and build variety. 

    One could easily argue that it was a "Huge success". Not one to say games 'fail' myself as I feel very few MMos actually "Fail" I'd still easily shy away from it being a "Huge" success unless you talk about their business model of collect box cost with the whole "no sub" deal while having a cash shop I'm sure raked it vastly more cash then they would of if it had been sub.

     

    None the less, I'd have to disagree in some part. Their system failed HORRIBLY for the game, in to give them credit they at least wanted challenge in the game so it wouldn't toss the trinity and make things overly easy so everything could be breezed through. Still its blatently apparent that the current systems in place aren't good enough to warrent having no trinity, and in truth it might be extremely difficult to ever create a system that can lack such a thing and still run smoothly with good group dynamics.

     

    I think rather then 'screw the trinity' mentality, that it should of probably went back to the classic trinity. Damage, Support, and Control. From there its playing off classes in that element, with classes potentially able to fill multiple roles of those.

     

    For example on control you could have say the classic ice mage acting as Control and moderate damage, disabling enemies and keeping them locked up. On the other side focused on control could be say a paladin using a sword and board "tanking" mobs for control keeping them from getting to allies and provide perhaps support in boosting ally defense or buffing their abilities.

    I think the real weakness is generalizing the trinity to "Tank/healer/dps". Sure, its less likely certain classes won't enter some rather small 'crutch' spot if you have classes focused upon certain areas, but I feel its further strengthens classes and makes them feel much more unique.

     

    You can't simply ignore the trinity, it exists because its an incredible system for group dynamics. Its more visualizing how you pull it off and going away from class generalization for the sake of creating far more unique and interesting classes.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon

    yeah the game floped not many servers and they are always empty

     

    /sarcasm

     

    serious now why need more heals? more then one class can have group heals using the right traits more ten one also can go for over sustain and defense with the right gear and traits.

     

    what I see is people who can't think or do anything diferently they did once, because serious if no one did guides to teach then how well one player they normally worship sayingthey are the best one on that class.

    and that is comming from a rifle warrior who I heard rifles are not good for anything

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon

    GW2 doesn't need a dedicated healer class or spec.  However, the game suffers for having removed the trinity and failing to provide enough differentiation in their game mechanics to prevent the current "all-dps, all the time" atmosphere.  Now, I'm not an expert on the game and I solely PvE but it's readily apparent to me that for most content there's no reason not to go with a build that gives you the most damage output possible.  That even applies to something like the fractals, which would seem to be places where a diversity of builds and roles would prevail but don't.

     

    The problems ANet was trying to fix by removing the trinity have mostly been blunted rather than overcome, along with the introduction of a whole set of new problems.  Certain professions are still favored for dungeon runs, fights are as simple as in any other standard MMO, and the individual trait lines are not competitive enough per profession to get away from cookie-cutter builds.  All that said, I do like the game overall; I just think it threw a baby or two out with the bathwater during its design.

  • NaeviusNaevius Houston, TXPosts: 334Member Uncommon

    The dominance of DPS is not because of a flaw in the skill model, but rather the strength of active defense.

    A utility skill that stops you from taking damage, or a dodge, is better than any heal.

    Especially given that enemies tend to do all-or-nothing style damage.

  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,408Member Uncommon

    It wasnt a flop- actually a refreshing success.

     but with changes also comes-lack of knowledge. and lazy player base.

    the thought of no trinity-was percived as easy mode dungeons and combat, when infact it was more to be intuitive on what needed to be done as a group.

    and lack of combat and dungeon knowledge was percived that not having a full functional healer was the problem.

    but it never was.

    it can be debatable- but i dont miss a full healing class. and never found it an issue running fractals or dungeons in gw2 with a full conpetent group.
  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,408Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event.

    BINGO!

    i play an engineer-so i agree 100%! doin a bit of work to have a class work for yah dosent make it a flaw.

    choosing a 'holy' class in an mmo and spamming healin to a group ...is!

    imo

     

     

     
  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon

    GW2 went from NOT the usual LFG spam to "LFG War Zerkers Only" spam for dungeons. Best way to clear a dungeon is still a full group of zerker warriors, with the occasional Mesmer to bypass certain areas in dungeons.

     

    Not to mention other LFGTool exploits like booting people at an end boss and bringing in friends so they can get credit. I really wanted to like GW2.

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,481Member Uncommon
    Needs more everything, honestly.
  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.


    In this regard City of X did a way better job of giving classes non traditional ways to support a gameplay while making it more obvious and fun when we killed bosses.

    You said it exactly. The combat system is quite complex and there are support roles. The problem is that it is never really required in any of the leveling up process. People never see the complexity because there is no need for it based on the content. People then resort to thinking that this is all there is to it and leave out of pure boredom.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.

    I call BS.

     

    I played on two servers, tier 1 and tier 2 WvW. 

    For dungeons: Warriors still reign supreme. If you want to finish a dungeon quick nothing beats the zerk war setup. Hundreds of videos prove this.

     

    For WvW: I will gladly put ANY combination you THINK versus the warrior train. Warrior train will win everytime, considering they can heal and damage with the best of them. It takes a different class build than a dungeon group, but the premise is still the same. Normally I would've thrown in a Guardian for good measure, but they got a nasty nerf recently.

     

    Sure other classes are viable, but the very best combo revolves around one class and one class only. Other peopel can continue to live in denial if they want.

     

    And as for the game dying, I'm not sure where people are getting this info from, when I am in-game, I see lots of people playing on various servers at odd times. Definitely not the sign of a dying game.

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Needs more everything, honestly.

    Needs more cowbell!

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by Nevulus
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.

    I call BS.

     

    I played on two servers, tier 1 and tier 2 WvW. 

    For dungeons: Warriors still reign supreme. If you want to finish a dungeon quick nothing beats the zerk war setup. Hundreds of videos prove this.

     

    For WvW: I will gladly put ANY combination you THINK versus the warrior train. Warrior train will win everytime, considering they can heal and damage with the best of them. It takes a different class build than a dungeon group, but the premise is still the same. Normally I would've thrown in a Guardian for good measure, but they got a nasty nerf recently.

     

    Sure other classes are viable, but the very best combo revolves around one class and one class only. Other peopel can continue to live in denial if they want.

     

    And as for the game dying, I'm not sure where people are getting this info from, when I am in-game, I see lots of people playing on various servers at odd times. Definitely not the sign of a dying game.

     Again, really, how many times they going to nerf the poor Guardian. 

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    No dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer and tank builds... That make a party grow in power, and leave the dps to what they like... The mindless gameplay...

     

    the game would function better with more dedicated healing power... And a more structured froup play

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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