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Should gamers organize? Gamer union(s)?

DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member

I was reading this old article http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/06/the-perfect-ten-absolutely-ridiculous-cash-shop-selections/

I doubt things has gotten that much better, I've been looking at some of the prices in Lotro for things, and it's just insane high prices on some stuff.

The way the EvE community handled it in the article seems to me to be very effective.

My impression is that cashshop phenomena is a combination of players with alot of money, kids with parents creditcards, players that make stupid, impulsive decisions (read purchases), and gamecompanies with lack of morals and ethics who are willing to exploit customers as much as possible.

The losers in this end up being the players with common sense, that knows it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

It seems to me that alot of gamers are unhappy with the choices that gamecompanies sometimes make, and I wonder if gamers union that could communicate and set demands as to how a game should be, not just financially but with gameplay as well.

It would function in principle as a real-life union, - if the company didnt provide what the gamers wanted, they would simply not provide what the companies seems to want the most, which is of course money.

A union would not only stop undesired whatever to be in a game, but negotiate lower subscription fee's for it's members, or for everyone.

 

I understand some people would think this to be ridiculous, cause it's just a game not a way of income, at least for players. And perhaps some  would be more understanding to the greedy nature of some companies. 

But, if you look at some of the labour unions in different countries, some of them are much smaller than if you organized the total amount mmorpg'ers. And if the those labour unions were to be threatened, they would not be overrun or go down easily. There are just too many workers for that to happen, at least in somewhat democraticv countries.

 

What do you think, would you join a Gamers Union if it would give you financial or otherwise related benefits in games?

Would it work, would it fail?

Would it have a good or bad influence on games?

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Comments

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    Unless you are actually getting paid to game (and I know some people do) you want a consumer rights organization not a union and yes I think more consumer advocacy is always a good thing.

     

    Although no amount of consumer protection is going to stop people from buying stupid crap in cash shops unfortunately.

     

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Posts: 1,274Member Uncommon
    Gamers should be more careful consumers. 
  • tarodintarodin canovellesPosts: 98Member Uncommon
    we are consumers... we are the last link, we are the bounty
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon

    No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

  • DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Unless you are actually getting paid to game (and I know some people do) you want a consumer rights organization not a union and yes I think more consumer advocacy is always a good thing.

     

    Although no amount of consumer protection is going to stop people from buying stupid crap in cash shops unfortunately.

     

    No, and a consumer rights organization could also not deny a gamecompany to use a cashshop. It can't be considered an illegal thing to have a cashshop, some players might even prefer it.

    But a gamers org. could force through a ban on cashshops, if that was desired. By boycotting a game.

     

    ...however, I have to admit I don't know how a gamers union would find out if their members broke a boycott though...

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,201Member Uncommon
    How often have a majority of gamers on this very site ever agreed to anything? Good luck with that. I know I wouldn't join something like that.
  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Gamer's Union?  Good joke!  
  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 548Member Uncommon
    What would be the real purpose? I mean obviously some people must love these sort of cash siphoning "free" games. Someone is buying from them and keeps buying enough to make it worthwhile for them. The easier thing is just to avoid these games, let those fellow gamers who enjoy them to keep bleeding from their wallets and move on.

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    Gamers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your gear!
  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    You can always try to get an organization together to boycott a game. Such things have not been very successful in the past though:

    http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/7/77014/1625794-mw2lol.jpg

     

     

    You can get governments or courts to try to make certain things illegal in your country, although you need a reason for that (beyond just it's a stupid waste of money).

     

    Unions work by threatening the witholding of labor. Since you are not actually working and getting paid when playing a game a union wouldn't work at all.

     

  • cnutempcnutemp Fairfax, VAPosts: 229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Diodem

     it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

     

    So to sum things up

    Rich people dropping 200,000 on a lambo or 1.5 mil on a home is good

    Rich people dropping 500 for a housing slot in SOTA is bad (and also a dangerous risky purchase, unlike a safe 100+ grand sports car purchase.)

     

     

  • DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by Fearum

    No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

     

    I don't use cashshops myself, but there aren't alot of games it seems that doesn't have a cashshop at all.

    And were i used to get access to everything for the ordinary 15 bucks a month, I now have to pay additional money if I want access to everything, because there's no way of getting it through the gameplay alone.

    So it does affect gamers that doesn't want to use cashshops as well.

  • DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by iridescence

    You can always try to get an organization together to boycott a game. Such things have not been very successful in the past though:

    http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/7/77014/1625794-mw2lol.jpg

     

     

    You can get governments or courts to try to make certain things illegal in your country, although you need a reason for that (beyond just it's a stupid waste of money).

     

    Unions work by threatening the witholding of labor. Since you are not actually working and getting paid when playing a game a union wouldn't work at all.

     

    Players can hold back money, even f2p players can reduce the amount of people on a server which makes it harder to get teams for grouping.

    The EvE community, I don't know if they were organized, but it seemed to have worked out for them?

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 447Member Uncommon

    I don't think that cash shop prices for certain items is the biggest worry. 

    At least those prices are out in the open, as ridiculous as some may seem. 

    The really bad stuff happens on other levels and mostly ingame (and often has to do with detaching the fact that you are actually spending money from your conscious thinking).  Coercive monetization methods etc.

    That's where some companies are really dancing on the line between ethical and unethical business.

     

  • DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by cnutemp
    Originally posted by Diodem

     it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

     

    So to sum things up

    Rich people dropping 200,000 on a lambo or 1.5 mil on a home is good

    Rich people dropping 500 for a housing slot in SOTA is bad (and also a dangerous risky purchase, unlike a safe 100+ grand sports car purchase.)

     

     

    i don't think any housing in a game will cost as much as a real-life house, but who knows.

  • DiodemDiodem ReikjavikPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by Gaendric

    I don't think that cash shop prices for certain items is the biggest worry. 

    At least those prices are out in the open, as ridiculous as some may seem. 

    The really bad stuff happens on other levels and mostly ingame (and often has to do with detaching the fact that you are actually spending money from your conscious thinking).  Coercive monetization methods etc.

    That's where some companies are really dancing on the line between ethical and unethical business.

     

    Yea that's interesting, because I think you can end up spending more on some mmorpg purchase by using somekind of gamecompany currency, like Turbine points in LotrO.

    You buy those currencies in bulk, so you don't get the exact amount that you would when buying with real-life money. But it is in fact spending real-life money.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    This is a ridiculous idea.  Publishers are not going to give people incentives in games when the goal of the union is for players to spend less money.  Second, the union already exists.  People buy what they want and avoid what they don't want.  If they are buying things, it's because they want it.  Being part of a gamer union isn't going to change that.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Diodem
    Originally posted by Fearum

    No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

     

    I don't use cashshops myself, but there aren't alot of games it seems that doesn't have a cashshop at all.

    And were i used to get access to everything for the ordinary 15 bucks a month, I now have to pay additional money if I want access to everything, because there's no way of getting it through the gameplay alone.

    So it does affect gamers that doesn't want to use cashshops as well.

    No it doesn't affect players like me, I said I choose not to play them. If you are going to play them, you are supporting them. If you don't like what they are doing the only way to not support them is to not play them.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member

    CCP handles pricing the way they do because CCP is literally dependent on it's players. It's the other extreme publishers have to be weary of, which SOE badly handled in trying to fix: a publisher can't be held hostage on design/marketing decisions by it's player base (listen to player needs/wants and take suggestions, yes. But not to be held hostage by ransoms that's aimed to DESTROY the game) . It's so bad with CCP these days they're literally walking on egg shells to not have another player riot. The players in return act every bit the jailer too (make a game that real life thugs can do what they please, don't cry when real life thugs poop on your doorstep).

     

    Problem with player unions per se is the special interest pushes each would defend/advocate. This is what causes really ugly interactions between publishers and players. Loss of creative control from publishers is not fun, it's morale busting, too. That in turn makes the devs turn on the players. The result is a piss poor game with camps pitting against each other and the publisher. This already occurs without unions, too.

     

    What Blizzard is doing with asking about pricing for instant level 90s is a fair route in how to get feedback on pricing that's comfortable with players. Pricing for other items will depend on the demand and interest (and Blizzard will have to branch out of pets and mounts, as the nth of both isn't exciting anymore as our pet/mount book is overfilled). Blizzard knows players like those past tier sets and weapons, and higher poly versions that bank on nostalgia, would be an excellent means to cash in and players get something they'll actually use (and not get buried in a book, to be forgotten -- don't go the Farmville/2 route!).

     

    If player unions have the best interests at heart it maybe okay. But from past experience from knowing what SOE and CCP has done, I doubt I can trust them to truly represent player interests (the publishers will infiltrate them and put in their hacks and trolls as union breakers and scabs).

  • anemoanemo Posts: 761Member Uncommon

    Just don't play the game.  Whales only go to games where they can play with other people.

    It only takes one failed action by a union to severly weaken it's strength.  Considering how different gamers are from each other that won't take very long.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    There sure are a lot of ideas on this site that focus on controlling what other people do with their time and money.
  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,076Member Uncommon
    My question would be, how would you force your members of this "union" to not use cash shops?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,778Member Uncommon
    Unless you can convince a lot of gamers not to buy stuff that they otherwise would have bought purely because a union says not to buy it, the union would have no point and accomplish nothing.
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    There sure are a lot of ideas on this site that focus on controlling what other people do with their time and money.

    This.  Control yourself.  If enough people agree with you and do the same, that will force the companies to change their strategy.  If they don't agree with you and do the same, maybe your "cause" doesn't deserve to be effective in the first place.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    OP

    simply   N O

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