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Wanted : Utility skills/spells just to add flavor.

blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon

I was just discussing this the other day and wondered what this community thought about it.

 

You know the kind of skills that serve no "great" purposes for combat but that adds flavor to the world.

Something like different type of vision (night vision, thermal, sonic,etc.), or languages you could end up learning like in EQ.

Or spells that, while not being extremely useful, are still fun to use and make the envy of those others who don't have them (like for instance, levitation spell,  lull songs, speed buffs,etc.)

 

What do you guys think?

I know that it's now pretty much considered a sin to give something unique to a specific class or race.. (for some reason, people can't stand not having something someone else has... Just think about those teleport spells in EQ and imagine if they were the sole "quick travel" method in today`s games... ), but I think that it's these kinds of details that make for a believable, interesting world that you end up really caring for. Not every spell/skill needs to be crafted towards combat.

 

All those "utility" things are pretty cool to have imo, and I would love for some new games to come back to them!

(I'm sure some will say that if they are used like 1% of the time compared to the other spells, than it's wasted resources.. but  still.. if it adds depth and feeling, is'nt that what most look for in an RPG game?)

 

Comments

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member

    They are a must for making memorable classes and giving ways to play and have fun outside of combat (and socializing).

     

  • AvisonAvison Orlando, FLPosts: 350Member
    I find these abilities necessary to really make classes and the players playing them feel unique and valued. And it goes a long way towards role-playing and world building.

    image
  • plat0nicplat0nic new york, NYPosts: 301Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    They are a must for making memorable classes and giving ways to play and have fun outside of combat (and socializing).

     

    something that I feel more games should be doing

    image
    Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
    2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    You should play WoW, there is a lot of this in the game.

    Warlocks and Mages probably have the most utility spells/abilities for flavor/fun.

    Portals and summons and movement and vision and pets and buffs and consumables etc.

    Shaman and Hunters are close second with pets/traps and totems, etc.

    After that I'd probably say Warrior/Priest/Death Knight/Druid have some more fun utility/flavor abilities and spells.

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member

    I actually think they should have those in both ESO and EQN.  Even if its just cash shop or whatever, I would love to see what some big titles can do with the concept.  The flavor aspect is good for both RPers and the casuals just looking to have some non combat fun.  I don't expect these things from either game at launch though, but hey, you never know.  Speaking only to the flavor abilities and not utility... basically aesthetic only.

  • RattenmannRattenmann ReitmehringPosts: 510Member Uncommon

    Actually a nice way to say "i want more then 5 skills on my hotbar".

     

    And i 100% agree. These skills are the reason i LOVE games with huge hotbars. Very rarly do those big spaces of bars serve any purpose for the actual combat. But they give me the opportunity to enjoy my class choice. I simply hate 5-8 buttons that are only allowed to be DPS, so i don't suck.

     

    I definitly want those fluff skills / spells. And a lot of those!

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon

    I'd like to see customizable fx...Like if my character is outfited under a biohazard green and toxic yellow; or a polluted purple and shadow magic scheme...Why does my fireball have to be orange-yellow? Why does my lighting have to be blue or white? And, why if I am a holy warrior do I drop dark seals on the ground, or spurt clouds of bloddy mist when buffing up? all these abilities look cool stand alone. But, when you want a presence. When you want show your alignment. Weather something factional or made up. More ability to customize the way the effects of skills come off visually would be nice.

     

    I know it's vain... but what about a cosmetician sub-class or skill...something that would let a player build themed load outs. maybe even sell them in game for game currency. could involved making and using of dyes and such too on clothing.

     

    also I am extremely sleep deprived and I think I missed the point of the topic...but what ever, atm.

    image

  • MibletMiblet BognerPosts: 333Member

    I'd love more fluff spells.

    Loved my EQ enchanter (had all the illusion spells even though they almost all did nothing - was fun being in Seb though running past a group as a old school froglok :D and seeing the panic from them seeing me charging into camp from some people).

    I'd also like dungeons to be dark so those vision spells would have a purpose beyond adding a red or blue tinge to the screen, (as opposed to the current situation were the difference between night and day is the colour of the sky rather than the amount of light available).

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by Helleri

    I'd like to see customizable fx...Like if my character is outfited under a biohazard green and toxic yellow; or a polluted purple and shadow magic scheme...Why does my fireball have to be orange-yellow? Why does my lighting have to be blue or white? And, why if I am a holy warrior do I drop dark seals on the ground, or spurt clouds of bloddy mist when buffing up? all these abilities look cool stand alone. But, when you want a presence. When you want show your alignment. Weather something factional or made up. More ability to customize the way the effects of skills come off visually would be nice.

     

    I know it's vain... but what about a cosmetician sub-class or skill...something that would let a player build themed load outs. maybe even sell them in game for game currency. could involved making and using of dyes and such too on clothing.

     

    also I am extremely sleep deprived and I think I missed the point of the topic...but what ever, atm.

    Someone who makes spell/skill effects and sells them in game as a crafting skill.....wow.  I think we are done here.... you just won the internets.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon

    One of those things i loved about eq2, the "fluff" spells you get at certain levels. They served no purpose but made your class just a bit more fun to play. 

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Fun_Spell_(Spell_Type)

  • blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    They are a must for making memorable classes and giving ways to play and have fun outside of combat (and socializing).

     

    Originally posted by Avison

    I find these abilities necessary to really make classes and the players playing them feel unique and valued. And it goes a long way towards role-playing and world building.

    I agree with both of you, sadly, it seems like they have been kind of forgotten lately.. I hope someone will bring them back!

     

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    You should play WoW, there is a lot of this in the game.

    Warlocks and Mages probably have the most utility spells/abilities for flavor/fun.

    Portals and summons and movement and vision and pets and buffs and consumables etc.

    Shaman and Hunters are close second with pets/traps and totems, etc.

    After that I'd probably say Warrior/Priest/Death Knight/Druid have some more fun utility/flavor abilities and spells.

    Yes, I used to play WoW back then.  I was fun to levitate to walk over water with my priest (even more since I was the envy of all my friends who had to.. gasp.. get wet!! lol

     

    Originally posted by Zaradoom

    Actually a nice way to say "i want more then 5 skills on my hotbar".

     

    And i 100% agree. These skills are the reason i LOVE games with huge hotbars. Very rarly do those big spaces of bars serve any purpose for the actual combat. But they give me the opportunity to enjoy my class choice. I simply hate 5-8 buttons that are only allowed to be DPS, so i don't suck.

     

    I definitly want those fluff skills / spells. And a lot of those!

    I had'nt thought about it that way really. But thanks for showing it to me..

    I actually don't dislike the short action combat hotbar we have been getting lately, but that's fine for combat.  I would certainly not mind for some "fluff bars" to have other skills of that sort.

    Thinking of it, why not implement that in these "new" games? Have the combat hotbar small and limited to a few combat skills that you need to pick carefully, and have "fluffs stuf" where you can put all those other skills that you would probably never use in combat... (or that would not have anything to do on the outcome of the combat per say..)?

    Anyway, sorry, I'm derailing my own thread, but what you said got me started..

     

    Originally posted by Pyatra

    I actually think they should have those in both ESO and EQN.  Even if its just cash shop or whatever, I would love to see what some big titles can do with the concept.  The flavor aspect is good for both RPers and the casuals just looking to have some non combat fun.  I don't expect these things from either game at launch though, but hey, you never know.  Speaking only to the flavor abilities and not utility... basically aesthetic only.

    Agreed. You have so much liberty in Elder Scroll games, such concept (with the full bars maybe? :)  ) would be great!

     

    Originally posted by Helleri

    I'd like to see customizable fx...Like if my character is outfited under a biohazard green and toxic yellow; or a polluted purple and shadow magic scheme...Why does my fireball have to be orange-yellow? Why does my lighting have to be blue or white? And, why if I am a holy warrior do I drop dark seals on the ground, or spurt clouds of bloddy mist when buffing up? all these abilities look cool stand alone. But, when you want a presence. When you want show your alignment. Weather something factional or made up. More ability to customize the way the effects of skills come off visually would be nice.

     

    I know it's vain... but what about a cosmetician sub-class or skill...something that would let a player build themed load outs. maybe even sell them in game for game currency. could involved making and using of dyes and such too on clothing.

     

    also I am extremely sleep deprived and I think I missed the point of the topic...but what ever, atm.

    That's some interesting idea.. very interesting...  like the previous poster, they could also sell different look and feel on the cash shop if they want, I'm sure that would be pretty popular (that way you can really create and customize your character like never before!)

     

    Originally posted by Miblet

    I'd love more fluff spells.

    Loved my EQ enchanter (had all the illusion spells even though they almost all did nothing - was fun being in Seb though running past a group as a old school froglok :D and seeing the panic from them seeing me charging into camp from some people).

    I'd also like dungeons to be dark so those vision spells would have a purpose beyond adding a red or blue tinge to the screen, (as opposed to the current situation were the difference between night and day is the colour of the sky rather than the amount of light available).

    Exactly what I had in mind. If they actually made the places dark, it would bring a whole other feeling. Like you said, vision spell would then be useful, or there could be an actual use for a light spell, or a torch!

     

    Thanks for the answers guys! Glad to know I'm not alone thinking this, and here is hoping it plants a seed into some dev's head and we see the idea germinate into something good! image

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon

    These were my favorite types of spells in Everquest.  I believe they took them away in other games because of PvP balance and because less people actually cared about utility spells and things like eating food.  They were also exploited to an extent in PvE.

    In PvE people would use SoW and Snare, DoT, or root to kite things.  This was unintended and something I did because it allowed soloing in a game where you weren't really supposed to solo.  It was good for the Necro, Druid, and Shaman classes.

    Illusion spells could be used to hide from people in PvP.  Stuff like invisibility, levitation, taking on the shape of a tree, wolf, chair, another race, etc. 

    Being able to see in the dark, summon food, and teleport others was pretty harmless and stuff that was nice to have.  Especially night vision if you didn't have a race that had infrasion.

    I think utility spells, racial abilities, radically different racial stats (certain races are much better at certain classes), stat distribution, and things like food and boat rides add to the feeling the world is real in some way.  It just doesn't seem what people want now though.  They would rather have their PvP, everyone the same, balanced gameplay with limited character development.

  • blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Flyte27

    These were my favorite types of spells in Everquest.  I believe they took them away in other games because of PvP balance and because less people actually cared about utility spells and things like eating food.  They were also exploited to an extent in PvE.

    In PvE people would use SoW and Snare, DoT, or root to kite things.  This was unintended and something I did because it allowed soloing in a game where you weren't really supposed to solo.  It was good for the Necro, Druid, and Shaman classes.

    Illusion spells could be used to hide from people in PvP.  Stuff like invisibility, levitation, taking on the shape of a tree, wolf, chair, another race, etc. 

    Being able to see in the dark, summon food, and teleport others was pretty harmless and stuff that was nice to have.  Especially night vision if you didn't have a race that had infrasion.

    I think utility spells, racial abilities, radically different racial stats (certain races are much better at certain classes), stat distribution, and things like food and boat rides add to the feeling the world is real in some way.  It just doesn't seem what people want now though.  They would rather have their PvP, everyone the same, balanced gameplay with limited character development.

    All the examples you cited, to me, are strong points in favor of having these.

    Hiding from others using diferent forms, or invisibility (as long as it can be countered with see invis. or see true form,etc.) all adds up to something good :more choices, more strategies and more "suprises" during any encounters.

    As for the kiting, well, I kited a lot in EQ too (played a bard...), but it was less efficient than having a decent group of players and it was a lot more "work" too. So I don't see why it was so bad. Maybe it was because back then "soloing" was not supposed to be an option, but we all know how it is today eh?  It's pretty much the opposite and you have to search hard to find any group content at all (aside from instances and battlegrounds..).

    IMO, balance can (should ) be achieved in other ways than by making everyone pretty much the same, except from the color/animation of their skills/spells. To me someone having X while someone else has Y is balance as long as both can give you an edge in different situations... but I'm not the type to cry for nerfs if I see a class do something I can't, and I am not a game designer, so I might not see it like everyone!

     

     

  • RVallantRVallant LondonPosts: 57Member

    Additional languages were awesome. Getting to know what the enemy is saying because you know the language is a lovely touch.

     

    Be brilliant if it carried over to cut-scenes and stuff. >_>

  • SirPKsAlotSirPKsAlot bagong silangPosts: 224Member
    I'm all for more utility skills and abilities specific to races.

    image
    Currently playing: Eldevin Online as a Deadly Assassin

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    In WoW, something of a joke turned into a real request from priests because they tended to die a lot in PvP.  Basically priests could pick a skill in their skill tree that would cause a Confetti Explosion when they died, making the "phweeeee!" sound of party noise makers.  Lots of people voted for it, but Blizzard never added it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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