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PVE players emotional attachment to their characters.

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Comments

  • IDontThinkSoNoIDontThinkSoNo no, NCPosts: 57Member
    They don't want to get their fur suits all messy.
  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon

    And this is why Dark Age of Camelot was great... and why Elder Scrolls Online will be great.

    PvE players will PvE at their own pace without EVER being harassed... and PvP players will PvP all they want... and they will all play together without picking "different servers"... both can do the occasional "other side" if they feel like it, but then return to their habitat.

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    So here's a question about the whole PvP dying thing.  If the idea is that PvE players are overly attached to their avatars and don't want them to die, and PvP players are not attached to their avatars so they don't care if they die, wouldn't that make PvE players in general better players since they are going to put the effort into making sure their characters don't die?  I mean, I know if my character dies, it's no big deal, right?  But I still don't want my character to die.  The urge to not die is why I bother putting in effort to get my characters out of hairy situations or to keep trying to win even if it surely looks like my character is doomed.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • thorwoodthorwood MayfieldPosts: 485Member

    I prefer to play cooperatively rather pvp. 

    I like to explore and have an adventure.

    Combat is only a part of what I like in MMO's.

    Also, I am at a low ping disadvantage as none of my game have servers that are located close to Australia. PvE  implementations are usually better at managing longer ping times.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thorwood

    I prefer to play cooperatively rather pvp. 

    I like to explore and have an adventure.

    Combat is only a part of what I like in MMO's.

    I like all of the things you like... and I also like cooperative PvP.

     

    To me that's the real appeal of DAoC and ESO PVP (besides the fact that thyey also leave the PVErs alone in their separate area) It's raid sized PVP with a purpose not just the random ganking or mindless scenarios that is what PVP means in other games. Cooperation with the 50 or 100 others in your "raid" is what that type of PVP is all about.

     

  • IGaveUpIGaveUp NW, INPosts: 273Member

    No I don't want to duel, but thanks anyway.

     

    I wouldn't delete a PVPer from my friends list.  But I'm no PVPer myself.  I just don't have the temperment for it.

     

     If I like downers and someone else likes stims, that doesn't make them uncool to me, nor do I feel it should make me wrong for not being a meth head.  I just don't find what they like to be pleasant.

     

    I see a parallel between this example and PVE vs PVP.  Another person might find PVP exciting and a challenge.  I don't game for excitement and challenge.  I game to escape real world stress.  For me, PVP is just more stress.  Why would I play to have more stress, when stress is exactly what I'm trying to avoid?

     

    I do find that both sides find reason to insult each other as amusing.  Too few realize that people and their motivations are greatly varied.

     

    See ya, going back to my nod.  :-)

     

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member

    In PVE the players always win while in PVP they can lose a big amount of times. This alone explains everything. Thread can be closed now. :)

     

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 453Member Uncommon
    I really dont understand PvErs, they dont like PvP because its boring but PvE is a lot more boring than PvP. PvPers are typically much funnier, at least in my experience.
  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor FalkirkPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    I've always looked at as "PvE'ers are living the dream; they want a story/fantasy and they are apart of it".

    PvP'ers on the other hand are more akin to slavering zombies.. kill! Murder! Braaaaaaains! As the charge off into the fight uncaring about themselves, all that matters is the victory! The win, normally so they can taunt the looser and show their epicness.

    The Pve'er shows their greatness with shiny items, the top dungeon items and flashiest mount (which they stand about on the full view to "show off" their epeen).

    Either way it's about fun; be it day dreaming or mindless slaughter; it's all about what floats your boat. :)

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member

    PVP used to be great in MMO's, when we weren't fighting rivals for leveling spots, dungeons or towns i used to spend my time around starting area's helping noobs with advice and gear, whilst protecting them from RPK's.

    Nowadays PVP in MMO's is nothing more but a grind for points in tiny instances, and is usually dominated by players who have just grinded PVE for better equipment than everyone else.

    And as for PVE... lol. I just maxed out in neverwinter and only died twice in PVE, but sadly both times was due to me falling off the map. Has AI improved at all in recent times?

    /yawn

    I used to be able to turn to PVP for challenge and excitement but it seems they have managed to kill that off too.

    Oh well, there's always dota 2 until they decide to take the training wheels back off.

     

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by haplo602

    I don't like PvP. I am not good at it. I like PvE because I can go about a set of predictable and REPEATABLE opponents to try out different things (gear, skills, tactics) until perfection for a given encounter. You simply don't get that with PvP.

     

     

    This is the first time i see a PVEr being sincere about why he dislikes pvp. :D

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by osc8r

    PVP used to be great in MMO's, when we weren't fighting rivals for leveling spots, dungeons or towns i used to spend my time around starting area's helping noobs with advice and gear, whilst protecting them from RPK's.

    Nowadays PVP in MMO's is nothing more but a grind for points in tiny instances, and is usually dominated by players who have just grinded PVE for better equipment than everyone else.

    And as for PVP... lol. I just maxed out in neverwinter and only died twice in PVE, but sadly both times was due to me falling off the map.

    /yawn

    I used to be able to turn to PVP for challenge and excitement but it seems they have managed to kill that off too.

    Oh well, there's always dota 2 until they decide to take the training wheels back off.

     

    I never thought pvp in mmos was good compared to FPS/RTS games. It was always less about skill and more about advantages

    I don't think it will ever go back to even what it was. If anything suffers from easy mode in an mmo it's pvp. 

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I never thought pvp in mmos was good compared to FPS/RTS games. It was always less about skill and more about advantages

    I don't think it will ever go back to even what it was. If anything suffers from easy mode in an mmo it's pvp. 

    I thought it used to be... AC1 used to take a lot of skill (a level 40 for ex could take on multiple level 60's+ and win), and town raids took a LOT of planning and tactics.

    But sadly, that's long gone.

    FPS games have gone the same way tbh. Level and gear unlocks/grinds to give you another advantage over others.. and RTS game are few and far between... let alone decent ones.

    I think PVE and PVP are both easymode in MMO's these days. PVE raids are all about learning the correct tactic (assuming there is one to begin with) and PVP is usually just a matter a gear, class or level advantage... or simply bring your pre-made to a pug match and stomp.

  • MamasGunMamasGun SomewhereIn, FLPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    I never understood why some people play PVE all the time...

    ...Anyway, are you 1 of these people?  Can you justify it for me so I understand?  Do you want to duel? :D

    Very, very interesting post. By trying to "justify it to you so that you understand", I have to think you really do want to understand.  But, it's not really rocket science, nor should it be treated that way.  So I am led to believe, based on the wording in your post, that not only are you not willing to understand why some people are like this, you're also sort of mocking them for not wanting to duel you.

    I main PvE.  Why?  Because most people that PvP are just... not the type of people i want to associate with.  In real life, or in a video game

    I really only play games that I can get to actually care about my character for.  Not as much as how you put it, where I need to "have a funeral before ever respawn".  But, if I don't care about my character (can't change their appearance, can't build them how I want, etc. etc.), chances are, I won't stick around too long.

    Some people play games to get away from the bullsnit that goes on in society.  Some of those games are MMO's, because of frequent content updates and being able to go and come back on a whim (as long as the game is still alive) without feeling like they are constantly restarting the game, like if you were playing a Single Player Offline game (like Saints Row, Fallout, Mass Effect, etc).

    Not only that, but some people that just PvP are jerks.  Plain and simple.  Not all of them, mind you, but from my experience, a sickingly vast majority of them.  If I want PvP, I'll load up Smite.  If I want to play a game without the stress of competition or douchbaginess, I play games that have PvE in them.

    In the end, to each his own I don't think anyone should have to justify to anyone why they do what they do, as long as what they do doesn't harm animals or children.  There is nothing worse than dueling someone, beating them fair and square, and the person that lost saying, "I didn't have so and so equipped.  Duel me again!", or spamming the re-duel button because their ego wasn't stroked properly.

    Also, there are plenty of guilds in EVERY MMO that are strictly PvE or strictly PvP.  So, I'm sure you can find a whole lotta people, in any MMO, that will be willing to PvP you, if that's how you choose to play it. 

    What I don't understand is why you can't understand why some people just prefer to PvE.  It's really simple- just think about it.  Slowly, if need be.

    TL;DR: Some people just want to play without the need of a competitive nature.  For some people, it really is about the community/experience, not the "I won X-amount duels" aspect of the MMO.

     

    Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,

    Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
    image
    "I’m ready for
    All the comparisons
    I think it’s dumb and it’s embarrassing
    I’m switching off
    No longer listening
    I’ve had enough of persecution and conditioning
    Maybe it’s instinct- We’re only animal"
    - Lily Allen, Sheezus

  • MamasGunMamasGun SomewhereIn, FLPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Theodwulf

    I am a PvPing Care bear and I love to PvP but my friends do not, they hate it. It's because of the 'typical" PvPer on an MMORPG.

    They hate that most PvPers don't give their characters names, but dorky handles, like.. I don't know... n00bslaya or.... maybe Abuz0r.  That they want to duel everyone they perceive weaker than them, as any internet tough guy/bully type would do. That they are hyper competitive, poor losers and even worse winners. The type of people attracted to PvP in a MMORPG  tend to be the vermin  of the Web, craving to be the big fish in the small pond. If people don't like you, ask yourself, AM I likable?

     

    So , in closing, it's not them it's you. Modifying your behavior will modify your results.

     

    ^SOOOOO good, it really does bear repeating.^

    Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,

    Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
    image
    "I’m ready for
    All the comparisons
    I think it’s dumb and it’s embarrassing
    I’m switching off
    No longer listening
    I’ve had enough of persecution and conditioning
    Maybe it’s instinct- We’re only animal"
    - Lily Allen, Sheezus

  • NoleaderNoleader Utica, MIPosts: 6Member

    I love PvP more so then PvE.  To me PvE is just a chance to learn how the class plays and gear up so I can get to PvP.  That being said I blame PvPers for the slow decline of classes in MMOs today.  The first game I played was DAoC...  When you got attacked by someone you HAD to know their class in an instance to know how to properly counter them, and in some cases when to just /sit and let them kill you.

    If any cloth caster caught you at range you could hang it up.  You had one of two choices: Die or try to run out of their range.  Changing them form max to mid range was suicide.   This was balanced by the fact a caster which got caught in melee range was useless.  They could not cast a spell or do anything but die (Quick Cast, 7 second CD excluded).

    Assassins could kill almost anyone in melee range within a few hits save for tanks and well played Melee DPSers.  There was no reason to have a stun lock combo (though stunning was still used) because few could eat the damage they put out if all their styles landed properly.

    Melee DPS could produce some of the highest DPS numbers in the game but could do little if they did not have the support staff there to help them close the range.

    I bring all this up to make a simple point.  Back then the PvPers spent countless hours complaining about how they were not a one person wreaking ball and that it was not fair.  Melee complained about casters killing them without 'even getting half way to them before dying.'  Casters complained it was not fun to have their spells perma interrupted when they got caught in melee range.  All the while everyone complained about assassins because they only remembered the times they got ganked and not the times they caught the assassin out of stealth and ruined them.

    The result of all that complaining was developers trying to keep everyone happy all of the time and classes they really no longer shine at anything because everyone needs to do everything or it is Unfair.  I spent most of my WoW time in PvP and I can tell you it mattered little who attacked me on whatever class I played... it didn't really fundamentally affect my response.  Mage at range... no problem.  Warrior hitting you with MS... no biggy.   It was the same buttons over and over again because the class you face did not matter... just the numbers they put out.

    The sad part in all this is that PvPers did not just ruin classes for themselves... they ruined them for PvEers as well and then ask questions like the OP.  Gone are the days of true skilled gameplay; now every class has a hammer and the only thing developers do is make sure all their numbers are about equal.  There are no true intrinsic strengths to classes that the developers don't pre-program into the encounters they face.  All because of the PvPers who wanted it all.

    TLDR: Most PvPers suck and we, as PvPers, are to blame for the hate heaped on us by the MMO community at large.

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 875Member Uncommon

    If I wanted to bunny-hop & bounce around like a coked up wallaby, I'd... well, honestly I was going to make a CoD joke, but realized that phrase also sums up Guild Wars 2's PvE almost perfectly, hah.

    Until developers learn to make changes to PvE and PvP independently in their games however, I will oppose any sort of serious MMO PvP. PvP whiners have caused companies to ruin the balance of PvE in these games for a long time.

    Hell, just look at FFXIV. Square introduced PvP under pressure as a side activity, and the amount of whining about balance from the PvP crowd is insane. They want sweeping changes in the name of 'balance', all while not giving one single crap about how they would effect PvE balance.

    It's a split between the idiotic companies and whiny players really. One would not be a problem without the other.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    I enjoy both PvE and PvP.

    But reading the O.P. in this thread, it's REALLY easy to understand why some people want absolutely nothing to do with PvP'ers. Wow, what an asshole.
  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    Why people don't care for PvP?

     

    It all started 30 years ago. You could play FF3 on the SNES and you used the number 1 controller but if you played Mortal combat with a friend, you wanted the number 2 controller because you knew it wasn't being used as much and it was tighter. It mattered too. The guy who got the mushy controller lost more often than not because the buttons didn't respond as well.

    Fast Forward 30 years, I have 6 MB/S you have 14 MB/S. Who is going to win MMO PvP?

     

    As for character affinity. It's hobby gaming. You develop your character, you get attached to it. You build a garden, you are proud of it. You make a stamp collection, you are proud of it. You build an online character? You are proud of it. As for death and death penalty.  It's not about penalty. You fight a mob and it beats you, it will continue to do so. Your build is wrong or your class is wrong. You didn't pull that class or build out of your ass on a fly. It took time and the game is saying to chuck it out the window. I hate "losing" because so many MMO's are idiot about inventory so making builds for each mob is a gear grind nightmare with no place to put it all. It's logistics.

     

    Losing in PvP is again a matter of knowing it's pure Min/Max to the point of MB/S epeen and knowing you are cattle if you try more than once. You would enjoy PvP more if there was an unlimited number of ATK, cows to farm? I don't. Not only do I not really enjoy losing over and over to conditions I can't control, I really don't enjoy winning when I know my opponent is in a latency war he can't win. It's boring.

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon

    When ever I take hiatus from the forums the interesting -or at least better put then previous versions of them- topics inevitably come along, it seems.

     

    I only got as far as page 3. But, it was a good enough read - even if only that far in- that I do intend to get through the rest of it. I have gone ahead and mapped out what I think about this subject in order to express my self a bit more clearly than if I were to have typed it all out:

     

    [Note: If you find it hard to read, you should be able to right click it and click "view image" from the drop down selection in order to see it's full size resolution.]

     

    Now, this is intended to show what I think about the player types that there are (in regards to PvP vs. PVE). And, how they tend to distance from one another based on the degree (or one could say severity) of their treatment of a game. What this does not get at, is the nature of that separation (weather it is unintentional disassociation, or purposeful malice...Though it does touch possible motivations for preference and distancing). As, that likely depends on personality and learned behavior factors that may often be completely unassociated with their play preference (though not likely uninfluenced by it). It's where I view them being in position as apposed to directive.

     

    That said I think the more severe end of the tree lends itself to being more predictable in how the two groups would likely treat each other. I lean towards thinking from my own experience, that most players rest somewhere closer to the top of the tree. And, that more experienced players tend to have gone down either branch (to whatever extant) at one time or another. And, for that wind up having a more neutral perspective on the matter and their treatment of others based on their preference.

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  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member

    Not sure why the OP even brings up an encounter in WoW in regard to a PvE vs PvP dichotomy. 

    - WoW is like the Special Olympics in terms of PvP in an MMO, or any skill-based game for that matter

     

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grixxitt

    Not sure why the OP even brings up an encounter in WoW in regard to a PvE vs PvP dichotomy. 

    - WoW is like the Special Olympics in terms of PvP in an MMO, or any skill-based game for that matter

     

    I think you may have just insulted the Special Olympics, lol.

    When new players to Runescape used to complain about difficulty. We would tell them to go play WoW. That maybe it was more their 'speed'.

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  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member

    What I think the TC is actually explaining is a newish condition some gamer's get while playing video games. (I say newish because its getting actually diagnosed as a disease)  The people that are freaking out when they die in a game are freaking out because they see themselves as that character.  They play the game as they are that character, and the thought of killing another 'player' in the same respects to how they view a character is similar to that of killing someone in real life.

     

    As its easily seen from the posters that responded, there seem to be a few people with this perspective in this very post.  Its a matter of a player taking a game a little bit too seriously, and can be used as an escape, were their video game character is more them selves than the person is in real life.

     

  • Tara_WindwalkerTara_Windwalker Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 69Member
    well said
  • Tara_WindwalkerTara_Windwalker Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by GwapoJosh
    How the hell is it so hard to understand that some people don't like pvp?  Some people like apples and some don't.  This world would be extremely boring if everyone liked the same things.

    well said

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