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Originally posted by Torvaldr The F2P setup is pretty abysmal, at least compared to my other games. But with a sub I don't feel hounded by the Cartel market. I'll probably drop the sub when I'm done leveling through the stories and quests. Hopefully the Preferred status won't be too bad. I'll buy unlocks if necessary after that.
Remember to work out and buy them before you drop as you will have a credit cap
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing."SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13The original propoganda pixie dust villain :
Originally posted by Ghern The ardent SWTOR defenders that show up in every thread about this game make me laugh. Somehow, this pile of a game at launch, that this article references "HAD" to make the switch to f2p very early in its lifespan because it was bombing so badly these ardent defenders act as if it is now some crown jewel to gaming. What a joke.
The article doesn't "reference" that the game had to make the switch, it claims it. Without providing any supporting evidence. Was it a financially smart move to make the switch? Yes, clearly, when doing so is bringing in 139 million a year in cash shop revenue which obviously wouldn't exist if there were no cash shop. But we don't have one shred of proof that there was ever a point when the game wasn't profitable, only indications that EA wanted more profit.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by museandali As a Premium account holder and long time subscriber to SWTOR, I'd like to weigh in here. Yes, the restrictions look really bad on paper, but realistically, if you're looking to play the game for the long haul and actually do endgame content, the restrictions aren't so bad. The cash shop in SWTOR, anytime you buy something off of it, it's delivered to you as an item in your character's inventory, even account unlocks like more inventory slots, race unlocks and the like. This also means that players looking to make easy credits can buy several things and put them on the auction house. Case in point. I had max inventory slots, all the races unlocked and a month's saved up Operations access (Ops are SWTOR-speak for Raids) and, outside of the $10 I spent for the cartel expansion when I was a subber, and the sub, I never paid a thin dime for the game. all of my unlocks, I got via the auction house, and I was, as a free player, still actively raiding and doing(and benefitting from) endgame content. There's enough daily quests in SWTOR at level cap to get you to credit cap twice over. Ultimately, the only thing I missed being a free to play player was the fact that I didnt' have access to all the emotes (I was on an RP server)
The way you try to rationalize the terrible model away is amazing to me. I was there in beta I was there at launch and the things that are withheld are a giant issue. Your post sounds like a advert. Sure the cash shop is always asking for money but you can always farm cash in game and buy it on the market. Well what about pvp? 5 matches per week lol? I play rift, now and you know what pushed in me in the direction of rift? the f2p model of Swtor. My buddy and I would have come back if they weren't so greedy but instead we started fresh with rift and now when I don't want to sub in rift I still have access to everything. Rift is the way to do f2p and SWTOR is the example of what not to do at all cost, it really is that simple.
Originally posted by treysmooth The way you try to rationalize the terrible model away is amazing to me. I was there in beta I was there at launch and the things that are withheld are a giant issue. Your post sounds like a advert. Sure the cash shop is always asking for money but you can always farm cash in game and buy it on the market. Well what about pvp? 5 matches per week lol? I play rift, now and you know what pushed in me in the direction of rift? the f2p model of Swtor. My buddy and I would have come back if they weren't so greedy but instead we started fresh with rift and now when I don't want to sub in rift I still have access to everything. Rift is the way to do f2p and SWTOR is the example of what not to do at all cost, it really is that simple.
If Rift is the right way to do F2P, and TOR is the absolute wrong way, then why is TOR number eight on the top ten list of F2P revenue generators for 2013, and Rift isn't on the list at all?
Originally posted by CazNeerg Originally posted by treysmooth The way you try to rationalize the terrible model away is amazing to me. I was there in beta I was there at launch and the things that are withheld are a giant issue. Your post sounds like a advert. Sure the cash shop is always asking for money but you can always farm cash in game and buy it on the market. Well what about pvp? 5 matches per week lol? I play rift, now and you know what pushed in me in the direction of rift? the f2p model of Swtor. My buddy and I would have come back if they weren't so greedy but instead we started fresh with rift and now when I don't want to sub in rift I still have access to everything. Rift is the way to do f2p and SWTOR is the example of what not to do at all cost, it really is that simple.
Because that list is made by people who made guesses based of some numbers that may or may not be accurate.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Originally posted by neobahamut20 Because that list is made by people who made guesses based of some numbers that may or may not be accurate.
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by ohcomeonnow Oh come on now...dont you know that revenue has nothing to do with the quality of the game. EA/BIO is holding SW IP hostage and SW fan have nothing else to play so they are forced to play SWTOR...well thats the logic some of these haters have.
Originally posted by ohcomeonnow
"Logic," lol. Most of them don't appear to be familiar with the concept.
Originally posted by ohcomeonnow Originally posted by CazNeerg If Rift is the right way to do F2P, and TOR is the absolute wrong way, then why is TOR number eight on the top ten list of F2P revenue generators for 2013, and Rift isn't on the list at all?
Oh come on now...dont you know that revenue has nothing to do with the quality of the game.
revenue indeed has nothing to do with quality, if you check that list everyone's referring to, Crossfire is on the first place, which is a very lame CS clone (emphasis on very lame), but it's admittedly pay2win and cash-shop heavy. Ideal for kidz who just want to shoot each others into the face with the newest, shiniest gun from the store. I think we can agree upon that its 1st place on the list doesn't tell anything about quality
edit: seriously, from that list there's maybe 2 games I'd play willingly (TOR and TF2), plus maybe CS:O if I'd have a huge reason to (as in 6 digits at least ). The rest are crap. For me, I mean. Yep, wow as well That list is maybe great for a shareholder or an investor, but as a gamer I think it's more like a wall of shame. Here's the 1st placed one, which is obviously the best according to you since it accumulated the most money from christmas grenades and snowman skins on the gun
For the valid question of CazNeerg, I think there can be a few anwers (and nope, I don't consider myself a hater ).
Rift went f2p this summer, so its cash shop had only 6-7 months. Rift is still focusing onto the subscription and with the benefits of it, not massively milking the free players with forced purchases (by this obviously generating less income than TOR). Add to that, Rift's shop is "micro"transaction to the letter, so if a free player even get the urge to turn towards the shop (since s/he get the whole game for free), the shop is stuffed with items in the 20cent - 2 dollars price range -> with it, obviously also falling behind TOR in the "getting out the most of the cash-shop" competition.
(edit: a bit strange to write all this, I'm not even like Rift that much... where are the Rift folks when they're needed? )
Originally posted by CazNeerg
They have the same value to the scientific mind : None.
Originally posted by neobahamut20 They have the same value to the scientific mind : None.
We have two options; base our conclusions on the best data we have access to, or don't reach any conclusions at all. The second option wouldn't be much fun, and would kill most of the threads on this forum. As for the first option, until someone provides an actual data source superior to the one that includes the "top ten F2P of 2013" chart that has been floating around, with a rational explanation for why would should consider that data superior, it's the best we have to work with.
On the issue of TOR specifically, on the one hand we have the report claiming 139 million in cash shop revenue for 2013, and unverified and not very recent reports of subscriber numbers being around half a million. On the other hand, we have a mix of people who come across as frothing at the mouth tinfoil hat wearers, blatant trolls, and semi-professional skeptics who express disbelief of pretty much everything. Oh, and the armchair experts who make declarative statements about how professionally produced reports are incorrect, without providing any actual data to support their claims, instead relying on us to trust in their supposed (but completely unsubstantiated) "expertise."
I recently went back to check out SWTOR and lasted all of about 5 minutes before I hit the uninstall button.
It wasn’t because SWTOR is a bad game, to be honest I didn’t even get far enough back into it to do any game play. I uninstalled because the game wanted to nickel and dime me for every little thing, want to hide your helm, pay, want to match armor color, pay, want to add costume item to your companion, pay. I got so frustrated with all these little pay walls that I just decided it wasn’t worth my time to continue playing, I sure as hell wasn’t going to pay them.
I understand the desire to make money, believe me I want them to make money so the game keeps going but when you start charging for basic options (hide your helm) then it just looks greedy and yes I know they are out to make money, again I don’t have a problem with that.
For some people this won’t be a big deal, but for me it was a deal breaker.
On the flip side after logging into Rift the other day I felt like this was how F2P should be done, I have already spent about $75.00 in one month for additional character slots and other vanity items like mounts and armor skins. The game itself could have run a little smoother, and the merc system for PvP really got on my nerves but that’s just me.
Originally posted by BadOrb Originally posted by Po_gg Originally posted by CazNeerg So you can think it's a bad joke all you want, but EA is laughing all the way to the bank.
There's no disagreement between us. It's obviously good for EA, that's why they're sticking to it. And it's good for a decent chunk of the remaining subs as well (I wouldn't be surprised if the major part of that cash-shop income / year happened to arrive from the subscribers). Until they're spending the monthly sub + shop purchases on top of that, EA is fine with the current state.
McD's also make a truckload of money, still, I can call their products junk As a customer, (unless being a devoted fanboi) noone should really care about the profit margins of a company. Personaly, all I care about is the quality of the product, and the pricing of it.
As the owner of 2 TOR boxes I cancelled after the second month. I like the game (somewhat), but it doesn't worth 15/month. For me, I mean. Of course there are folks who are on a different opinion and stayed subbed, which I respect. (on a sidenote, there were about 1.5million others with my views, based on the number of cancelled subs)
Since the switch I looked back maybe 3-4 times, and always left after a week. With this model (even after the revisions), I still don't feel to give them any money - let alone subbing. Again, there are other opinions, of course (and on a sidenote again, I don't really see those 1.5 million were rushing back to the game either...).
To put in a contrast, I'm not a huge Rift fan, but after it switched to f2p I checked back, and dropped in the $15 sub. Simply because of the afforementioned honey vs. vinegar aspect. Rift's model is fully free for anyone, with minor advantages to former players, and with huge bonuses for subscribers. So much better than TOR's model, I can't even compare them, except saying TOR's f2p is a bad joke (regardles of EA's income)
Well at least SWTOR doesn't sell P2W items in it's cash shop , so maybe you think the SWTOR F2P model is garbage but their cash shop is far superior to Rift's , for that reason alone.
What Pay to win items are for sale in the Rift shop, I haven't seen anything in there that would be considered pay to win. All the gear you can buy can also be purchased with in-game currency, pay to win would be when there is an item you can only with real money that you can't buy with in-game currency. Also if I remember correctly all the highest end gear is in-game currency only, the tier below can be purchased with real world money but not top tier.
Originally posted by BadOrb Originally posted by Torvaldr The F2P setup is pretty abysmal, at least compared to my other games. But with a sub I don't feel hounded by the Cartel market. I'll probably drop the sub when I'm done leveling through the stories and quests. Hopefully the Preferred status won't be too bad. I'll buy unlocks if necessary after that.
Good advice. I bought a scalable (adtaptable) speeder from the GTM for just under 50K. I wanted one that looked cooler than what you could get on from the npc vendors and I wanted it adaptable to my pilot skill.
I've been buying inventory and storage with credits as well.
One thing I've noticed is that I can actually sell junk on the GTM and make credits. I harvested some lowbie mats and made a quick 30k. I sold cheap to make a quick buck and suddenly I was relatively rich for a newbie. It was fun.
It's not too hard to make decent credits in the game just buy questing, mob kills, and vendoring trash.
Plus if I ever feel too limited I'll just drop another $30 and get 60 days premium. I really like that option. You get unrestricted game play and 1050CC for the Cartel Market.
If EA would give me equal value in cartel coins to what I paid for the box and a couple of months of the subscription I had back at launch before they went f2p, then I would gladly keep playing. I feel like I gave them a decent amount of money to only have "sprint", a few extra toolbars, and some storage to show for it. Yes they give a little more for the preffered status on the account but I think you get my point.
Basically someone can be a f2p player, spend $5 or whatever to unlock something, along with the account upgrade for spending the $5 and they will automatically have more than I will if I start playing as a f2p, and all the others who actually bought the box and paid for a couple of months of sub fees.
I actually like the game, though the pvp gear kind of erks me. Just the payment model kills it for me. At least give me the "hide helmet" option, match armor color, and allow me to wear purples without having to pay even more money.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
SWTOR doesn't actually provide much value for their subscribers what they do is more like bullying. The beat the piss out of the guys that won't give them their money and then they say "that doesn't look like fun does it, now give me your money".
The thing is the only thing truly spectacular about the game is the 1-50 leveling experience. After that it is all pretty meh.
Leveling your first char to 50 as F2P is going to be painful. And while they say you can buy anything from the GN, you really can't because of the F2P currency cap. That said you can buy most of the things you want to improve your play experience. What I recommend doing is while playing your first keep an eye on the GN prices for the unlocks you want. I only buy account wide stuff because I play all the classes. Figure out which things are consistently over the 350k cap. Once you have a good idea of what those are, find out how much it would cost to get those for cash and if it is worth it to you buy them. You really really want to upgrade to preferred anyway to get the currency cap up to 350k, but you don't want to waste those credits on things you can easily get off the GN. For me it was account wide purple item unlock and the account wide additional trade skill. Once you have preferred status things are quite a bit better. The first thing I unlocked were account wide inventory slots, and an additional account wide action bar. I sold all my purples while leveling to make money so I could unlock more stuff. By the time I finished leveling my first I had most of the stuff I wanted unlocked. After that the leveling because infinitely more fun and you can start unlocking even more stuff and fluff items via the GN.
What most players of MMOs really do not understand is, yes free players are not paying for anything, however, there is a reason why this game is F2P. Bodies, population, whatever you want to call it. I pre-ordered this game when i was first able to, played it til max level, however I quit due to lack of population. What I am trying to say is, without the free players, this game would be nothing.
What these F2P games need to do is take notes from games like League of Legends, a game where their cash shop consist of vanity skins and minor exp boost, which do not have a major impact on the game.
Its very simple why ppl hate SWTOR's F2P model so much. In most other F2P MMOs you can buy almost every single feature that subcibers have - and the mosts important ones are always there for sale. This is not the case with SWTOR - its just the opposite.
In SWTOR no matter how much $$$ you want to throw at EA they wont let you be equal with subscribers. This is a big problem because there are ppl that dont want to feel like they rent the game, they want to feel like they own it (even if its practically impossible they still want to "feel" that way). No matter how much you are ready to give to EA thare is still no way to buy warzone, flashpoint or raid - only to rent them. No way to unlock credits and commendations caps(Im not sure if is still the case with commendations).
This makes it impossible to play the game effectively without being subscribers even if you are ready to spend much more than $15 per month. This onl shows that SWTOR's cash shop is not targeted at preferred players - its targeted at subscribers. EA are not trying make more money by reaching to more ppl, they compensate by charging their existing subscribers more. Its just a strategy to make as much is possible before the game is over.
Eh, if I were to ever return to SWTOR I would have to re-subscribe because the limitations on a preferred player account are too great to interest me in returning. Rift's f2p model, whether it is as successful or not, is the best model I have ever seen and I'm currently playing the game for my 4th time now as a subscriber.
18 year MMO veteran Retired PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Very negative review
I have spoke to many f2p players who are enjoying what they get for free
I have played the game as both sub, pref and f2p and for levelling and basic game access f2p is fine
If you want full access to the full game then you can even do most of that for no cost providing you are willing to spend time making credits to buy those weekly and account unlocks
As a sub, f2p or pref you do not have to buy anything from the Cartel market directly
There is so much that is positive in SWTOR f2p yet this article just covers everything in a negative light which is a pity
I found the F2P model one of the best actually.
You start off with a select amount of space, bars, options you can buy all the unlocks for credits you earn in game off the GTN. It literally is a game within itself and I loved it, the goals, i want to unlock purple gear, it averages xxx aim for it and get it done. Next goal....
Your credits are capped at 350, 000 anyway and most players selling items know this so instead of having credits go into escrow, buy your unlocks, earn more creds unlock more.
The entire games story line (its biggest feature) is free.
The only reason i recently subbed back up is at 38 i had completely unlocked my character, i didn't have any unlock goals anymore, and the leveling was slow, which is perfect if your unlocking stuff but i was really back int the story and well... was having a really good time so i subbed.
Just want to add that when i subbed after playing F2P for so long, it was probably the first time i honestly felt like the standard mmo 15 was totally worth every penny, how many mmo's i played and looked upon the 15 as a waste a nuisance, but here it just felt so right and so worth it. lol Dunno why? Maybe partly because i know that if i stop paying the monthly as i'm too busy or whatever i still have a fully unlocked playable game, or that i'm not locked out of the game because i'm too busy and deem 15 a month a waste at that time. I dunno but i felt totally fine about it and it felt worth it for the first time ever. lol
I just can't understand all these people saying the swtor's preferred status is terrible. Free to play is what it's supposed to be, but preferred is great. It's practically a sub without the fee if you really look at what you have access to.
The subs are the ones getting shafted. your paying $15 each month to do exactly what preferred players do each month for 100% free. In fact, your $15 a month is paying for preferred players to play and the 1% of stuff that you get which free or preferred don't ever get is insignificant to playing and enjoying the game.
YOU SUBS put the unlocks on the market for preferred players to buy. So yeah, I might have paid $5 to get preferred status (a one time fee). What I get is nearly everything a sub gets with the only real difference is that I have to rely on subs to put the unlocks up for sale for me to buy.
However, this is not something that needs to be sustained in order for me to keep playing the exact same content as subs. I simply needed a one-time unlock for most stuff. Warzone, flashpoints, operations, space missions need continuous unlocks sure, but subs are always gonna buy stuff in item shops in free games regardless. So since these unlocks come along with things like cartel packs from the market and the subs want those nice looking weapons and armor and such, they'll always have unlocks that they don't even need. So only (smart) option is to sell them on the market and make some ingame credits. I'll buy them and keep my real money for other subs that I have.
So yeah, you guys keep thinking that swtor's free modal sucks. I'll keep enjoying my 98% access to everything the game has to offer and be happy. Because honestly, no matter how bad you guys say their model is, fact is when your running your endgame content and such, I'm that preferred player that used unlocks and I'm battling right along side of you and you never question it one bit because unless I told you (or you tried to trade with me), you wouldn't know that I was not a sub.
At the end of the day, as a preferred player, you subs get absolutely nothing that I would say is worth stepping up and paying $15 for. Nope, I'll keep playing for free because it makes no sense to have 7 max level characters (2 more only 5 levels away) in less than a year who can do all the content the game has to offer and then turn around and subscribe. Honestly what would I now be paying for when I've already done everything the game has to offer for free?