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Why are MMORPGs a Special Snowflake?
TheLizardbones
Member CommonPosts: 10,910
In many discussions, notably discussions on F2P and Subscriptions, a common response is that people should not compare MMORPGs to games from other genres. You can't compare WoW to LoL because WoW is an MMORPG and LoL is an MMO. Is there a justification for this or is it just a tactic to prevent unwanted information from entering a discussion?
In the interests of moving things forward, I will take the opinion that not only can games from other genres be compared to MMORPGs, they should.
MMORPGs share players with games from other genres. People who play MMORPGs also play a variety of single player games, multi-player games and MMOs like LoL.
MMORPGs share development companies with games from other genres. It is far more noticeable when a developer only produces an MMORPG, but developers who are successful will tend to develop games in addition to their MMORPG and it seems likely that some of the development is going to be shared across those styles of games.*
MMORPGs share monetization systems with games from other genres, most notably in F2P offerings. MMORPGs do seem to have a lock on subscriptions, but they have incorporated the "cash shop" mechanic for a very long time now. Even venerated games like Ultima Online have a cash shop.
Added: MMORPGs do not operate in a vacuum. They certainly compete with each other, but they are also competing with games from other genres. Beatnik59
So what say you, oh masses of wisdom? Why should MMORPGs be discussed as if they operate in a vacuum where no other types of games exist?
**
* I'm not happy with how I've phrased this. Hopefully you get the point.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Wow, somebody woke up grumpy today.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
il start with im a gamer wich plays on many gaming fields.
from hack and slashes like diablo and baldurs gate dark alliance
to RTS like the command and conquer series. I like many diffrent types of games because they all bring something unique.
I can find something likeable in diffrent types of genre's, However i am an RPG nut, i just love the story that most of em give and the freedom some of em bring (gems like jade cacoon come to mind). And what stand aboves it is MMORPG's they took normal RPG's to a next level sort of where instead you follow a certain storyline you yourself make the the story. No rails nothing set in stone just you a open world and the possibility's therein.
That is a experience no other form of gaming gave and that is why MMORPG's are special snowflakes.
at least they where until evrything got on rails.
You can argue that it is not on rails but be honest to yourself, There is this path of golden questionmarks laid out for you to follow. And there is not much reason to divert from that path.
future MMORPG's should be about you again. about freedom, about choise and possibility.
Not these on rails questgrind ->instanced dungeon/raid grinds we have right now.
The latter is what i call a mere game. the first was something more
Because I also like discussing digital cameras but I don't do that here.
The game I play the most - and it has a multi-player online component - is the NHL game from EA. I've been doing that for 20 years. But I think this is the first time I've ever mentioned it here. It's just irrelevant to MMORPG discussions. This site is not MMO.com. The RPG part is supposed to mean something even though the site itself has blurred the lines with things they chose to cover.
There's a convergence happening in digital game playing where all of them are heading toward ever larger number of players in the game interacting with each other as part of the core design (not just lobbies.) Soon, they will all be MMOs. But even then, bringing LOL and Diablo or Crossfire into a discussion about specific mmorpg features (as many already do when it suits the purpose of whatever point they're trying to make) is useless background noise.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yup. The first sentence covers it.
I don't mind if the odd non-mmo finds it's way into this thread or that thread, I also don't mind if this site lists some non-mmo games that people who enjoy mmos might be interested in; this site is a business afterall and has to consider it's future.
What I do mind is the neverending trolling (from specific members of mmorpg.com {who'll be along shortly, no doubt}) that goes on and on about how LoL is an mmo, D3 is an mmo, WoT is an mmo etc. 'cause they're close enough, right? Fuck no! These games have borrowed a couple of mmo features and happen to be online, but that's where it ends. LoL is a MOBA, D3 is an ARPG, and Wot is TPS lobby game. They all have their own respectiive genres already in place. This shouldn't be so confusing for people who frequent a site like this.
If I went to a site that focused on Horror films, I wouldn't want to spend my time there discussing Romance Comedies. But, but...they are both movie genres, right? They both have actors in them, right? No, that would be idiotic. Which is exactly what we see on these forums on a daily basis.
We as Humans categorize things for a reason; if you struggle with why we do this, then I can only wish you the best in life and good luck out there
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If you want to compare apples with oranges it is your choice but they have little in common except they are both fruits.
A discussion about whether or not D3 is an MMO, and what an MMO is covers a little different territory than declaring that you can't compare e.g. SWToR and LoL's monetization models.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
RPGs in general tend to be completely different from other games can you compare D&D to chess or even the war games it partly descended from really? RPGs are huge ongoing time investments which aren't really winnable in the conventional sense a game is winnable.
I think MMORPGs are *losing* their distinctiveness though as companies bent on attracting a wider audience strip all the unique RPG elements out of them. I don't see this ending well for this genre in the long-run as other types of games tend to do specific "game things" like combat or story or graphics better than MMOs. MMOs I think need some kind of unique hook to attract people to them.
Hopefully someone will come along and revolutionize the genre by making MMORPGs more unique from other games again.Otherwise I really see games like LoL completely taking over from MMORPGs in a few years.
I think they can be compared and should be compared...simply because MMORPGs are in competition from other formats for the same customers. Other genres can be compared to MMORPGs on the basis of better/faster/cheaper. In other words, some genres can give you /better/ than an MMORPG, some genres can give you the thing /faster/ than an MMORPG, and some genres can give you the thing more /cheaply/ than an MMORPG.
Cinematics? There are games out there that can give you better/faster/cheaper than MMORPGs.
PvP? There are games out there that can give you better/faster/cheaper than MMORPGs.
Roleplay? There are games out there that can give you better/faster/cheaper than MMORPGs.
Worlds? There are games out there that can give you better/faster/cheaper than MMORPGs.
Story? There are games out there that can give you better/faster/cheaper than MMORPGs.
What the MMORPG had as its atvantage going into the 2000s was that it can do the same things solo or peer-to-peer games did, but more /cheaply/, or with /better/ quality or at a /faster/ rate. These days, however, are different.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I agreed 100% with the op.
i play games, not mmorpgs. And d3, lol .. are close enough to mmorpgs to be in the discussions. If you do not agree with this opinion do not have to read or response to posts mentioning other close enough games. People who want to shut people up dont realize that it is futile anyway.
i have just mentioned d3 in this post, i doubt it is going to be taken down just because of that.
So what if lol is taking over. If i dont like it, i will just play something else.
And there is innovation .. Like destiny. But the end result may not be a mmo, which is totally fine with me.
destiny innovation how?
Because marketing says so.
Anyway, are MMORPGs special snowflakes? Yes. Simulating a virtual world and pleasing people over the course of years is a lot harder than pleasing servers of 10 players for a round.
It depends on the discussion.
Comparing an MMORPG and an MMO, can and often SHOULD be done. Comparing an MMORPG and a racing game rarely ever should. One is in continual development with a persistent world, the other is neither of those. Comparing an MMORPG to an SRPG can be done more often because the share the RPG factor, but it also heavily depends on the topic.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
If you don't like MMORPGs I guess you wouldn't care. People who do like them or at least the idea of them would be sad to see them die out. Is that really very hard for you to understand?
Thats the first problem LoL isnt an MMO and shouldnt be on this site or in the discussion..
" The Pub at MMORPG.com
Use this forum to talk about MMORPGs. Please stay on the topic about MMORPGs and use the "off-topic" forum for unrelated posts. "
To my satisfaction...Answered.
seamless matching .. without even pushing a button ... sounds pretty new to me.
If simulating a virtual world is not that pleasing .. well .. ditch it, and do something else like arena or battleground. Wait .. that is exactly where the genre is going.
So what if some people are sad about changes. I am sure there are those who are sad about text adventures dying out too. It is just entertainment.
So, if a player plays an MMO (I refuse to say MMORPG), do ALL their other games count? I play a lot board game simulators. Count them in, too!
So, if a company makes one MMO, do their "other" games need to be counted?
So, should Facebook games count? They share a similar monetization scheme. Should F2P even be compared to P2P or Freemium? They are DIFFERENT monetization models.
The worst thing here is that I LIKE the MMORPG genre. I HATE LoL and CoD and other first person shooters. I DESPISE Farmville. Why would *I* "care" about their monetization and success? In other words, why compare something that I (or others) have no interest in?
The reverse of your hypothesis is also true. Why do you want to include LoL? It makes for a better argument, perhaps?
In debates, you have to keep your arguments relative to the topic.
Now, comparing video games in GENERAL, I see no trouble. Include whatever your heart desires. When comparing TO MMOs, keep it relevant. I think you may agree that MMOs are quite different from any other kind of video game. Am I mistaken here?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
This is the fallacy of trying to use reasoning, logic or interpreting words literally just to form convenient groupings. You can always find extreme case.
The most reasonable thing is to use the common usage.
LoL counts .. why .. because the industry group it so.
Do Facebook games count? No . because by convention, they are grouped as "social games".
If *you* don't care why even post in this thread? To extend your analogy it's like me finding a text adventure forum and posting over and over that I don't really care about the games they like. It's sort of true but do they need or want to hear that? Some of your posts make me wonder if you are just trolling.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR