Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by simpliusOriginally posted by Kicksave321Originally posted by simpliusokay, TODAY: roughly 1 mio customersAT LAUNCH: roughly 2,8 mio customers1 mio vs 1,8 mio,,which one has the most potential?two things keep swtor afloat:EAs deal with disneyand the ASTRONOMICAL budgetthey , pretty much , HAVE to keep it aliveand do note: we didnt even want swtor , to shut downwe just wanted something bettercompetition is always good for the marketmonopoly is bad
Every single person on this site knows you have never and will never provide facts or links to back up your rants. So on on that note please provide a link that backs up anything you said here, while your at it provide links for anything you have ever said. what happened, after you had the last link? nothing..if you want links, find them yourselfThis would be an awesome response if so much of the stuff you posted wasn't obviously just made up.like EAs 10 mio "something" number, that turned into 10 mio accounts?
its even in the movie " truth is a matter of perspective"
or, would you argue with a jedi master?
Maybe it's stream of consciousness instead of just made up.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by CazNeerg There is one simple reason that freemium isn't "BS." - Because quality games *always* give you the option to sub. No "true" F2P game which refuses to offer a sub has ever had anywhere close to the same production value as you get from the major players.
GW1+2 says hello
ohlen used the very same argument in the pre-launch discussion
guess what? their content wasnt good enough, for a sub game..
GW 1 and 2 are not f2p.
theyre not sub games either, and theyre doing/did pretty well
but STO will be happy, theyve sold a bunch of LIFE subscriptions
i guess, that would make them big League..finally
It doesn't matter if they don't have a sub, they aren't free which is what he was talking about. GW2 costs more than 3 months SWTOR sub.
Originally posted by CazNeerg There is one simple reason that freemium isn't "BS." - Because quality games *always* give you the option to sub. No "true" F2P game which refuses to offer a sub has ever had anywhere close to the same production value as you get from the major players.
GW1+2 says hello
ohlen used the very same argument in the pre-launch discussion
guess what? their content wasnt good enough, for a sub game..
GW 1 and 2 are not f2p.
theyre not sub games either, and theyre doing/did pretty well
but STO will be happy, theyve sold a bunch of LIFE subscriptions
i guess, that would make them big League..finally
well no GW2 is not doing as well as they had hoped.
ROFL STO happy because of life subs? I take it you don't realize that life subs are a bad thing for developers. It's a quick cash grab. The only reason to do it is if you don't think you will be able to keep a subscrption from the player longer then 2 or 3 years.
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
Sounds like a list supporting my theory that if a game is quality, it offers a sub in addition to a free option, not just a free option.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
Sounds like a list supporting my theory that if a game is quality, it offers a sub in addition to a free option, not just a free option.
Any model can be succesful if you budget for your income. Would SWTOR be making more money if they went full F2P? no defently not. For some a hybrid model is best.
Originally posted by mstrsrevati Being a huge Star Wars fan and the fact that I played Star Wars Galaxies from day one until they launched their doom which was the new player addition. That killed the best game ever. Anyway, as soon as SWTOR was ready to launch I was buying my account, not just a normal account but the limited addition to get the special bike and other nifty things. After about 6months of playing I left the game because I realized this game wasn't going to be like the other at all. The community was different, there was no housing, no real player role play just storyline, and being a crafter I hated their crafting system. So I moved on and gave away what I could to the few people I made friends with. I was going to try going back but after reading all of this I don't think I'll bother. But I am curious to ask if I had a sith character and I logged in on that account would i be able to play it? or would she be deleted already? I wasn't going to get into a sub again until I decided whether I was going to stay or not, but if I can't play my sith then I don't see the point of doing the download. Anyone have any idea whether I'd be able to play her or not? Thanks.
I wouldn't take notice of some forum posts in this thread , it's not all doom and gloom I assure you. Now to your question , no characters have been deleted at all ever. So yes you will be able to play on her , the only thing that might have happened to her though is she may have been moved to another server , possibly loosing her name and/or lost her name recently due to freeing up some names. Other than that you will be a preferred player and have various restrictions , unless you subb. You will have 4 skill bars though as a preferred player like you did 6 months after launch. You have a credit cap of 350 k as a preferred too.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
Thank you for answering my questions BadOrb took me awhile to find this. I will think about coming back, I want to talk to a few gamer friends of mine who might still play to see what their view is on it. Good luck out there in the Galaxy
Hey no worries , yeah not easy to find replies within swtor threads I hear you. Good luck to you too , whatever you play! Let us know if you do come back though and what your thoughts are about preferred status.
I think the only greediness items I can see are the mounts and dyes , they are over priced but as they are fluff then I'm not too bothered really.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Originally posted by CazNeerg There is one simple reason that freemium isn't "BS." - Because quality games *always* give you the option to sub. No "true" F2P game which refuses to offer a sub has ever had anywhere close to the same production value as you get from the major players.
GW1+2 says hello
ohlen used the very same argument in the pre-launch discussion
guess what? their content wasnt good enough, for a sub game..
GW 1 and 2 are not f2p.
theyre not sub games either, and theyre doing/did pretty well
but STO will be happy, theyve sold a bunch of LIFE subscriptions
i guess, that would make them big League..finally
well no GW2 is not doing as well as they had hoped.
ROFL STO happy because of life subs? I take it you don't realize that life subs are a bad thing for developers. It's a quick cash grab. The only reason to do it is if you don't think you will be able to keep a subscrption from the player longer then 2 or 3 years.
STO is not doing well at all.
2-3 years, as opposed to, swtors 3 months? yeah
and GW2 didnt have to scratch THEIR stories..nuff said
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
i guess you missed school that year
rofl wait are you suggesting a game that is completely free that gets 0 revenue from any source?? ROFL
Originally posted by CazNeerg There is one simple reason that freemium isn't "BS." - Because quality games *always* give you the option to sub. No "true" F2P game which refuses to offer a sub has ever had anywhere close to the same production value as you get from the major players.
GW1+2 says hello
ohlen used the very same argument in the pre-launch discussion
guess what? their content wasnt good enough, for a sub game..
GW 1 and 2 are not f2p.
theyre not sub games either, and theyre doing/did pretty well
but STO will be happy, theyve sold a bunch of LIFE subscriptions
i guess, that would make them big League..finally
well no GW2 is not doing as well as they had hoped.
ROFL STO happy because of life subs? I take it you don't realize that life subs are a bad thing for developers. It's a quick cash grab. The only reason to do it is if you don't think you will be able to keep a subscrption from the player longer then 2 or 3 years.
STO is not doing well at all.
2-3 years, as opposed to, swtors 3 months? yeah
and GW2 didnt have to scratch THEIR stories..nuff said
So not only do you have a gross misunderstanding of GW2's business model you also don't seem to know much about the game in general. There is a single story that every player goes through. Sure, they all start at a different spot but eventually all the stories converge and everyone follows the same story.
You also seem to unaware of all the story content that SWTOR has added to the game since launch. Even the last daily area Oricon has a story arc to follow. Yes, they haven't added any new class specific stories but saying they have scraped stories is being highly disingenuous. Of course being disingenuous seems to be your schtick.
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
i guess you missed school that year
rofl wait are you suggesting a game that is completely free that gets 0 revenue from any source?? ROFL
it would have to, in order , to be a truly FREE game, wouldnt it?
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
i guess you missed school that year
rofl wait are you suggesting a game that is completely free that gets 0 revenue from any source?? ROFL
it would have to, in order , to be a truly FREE game, wouldnt it?
if not, then its CC driven...NOT free
I suppose it's a good thing we have all these F2P games so that they can generate revenue and keep running.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
it was sarcasm, i can see LoLs quality, although i didnt like it personally
according to cazneerg, LoL is a low quality game, because it doesnt offer the option to sub
that was my point
PS 35 mio PLAYERS? yea , right
Apparently none of you noticed the
I was mostly making a point about how quality is a subjective measure, unlike success which can be objectively measured. I can recognize that a game can provide a quality experience for someone else while still providing a crappy experience for me, and vice versa. The elements of games which I actually care about are ones which games that don't offer a sub option consistently do a poor job of implementing, when they try to implement them at all. So no matter how good a job they do on what they do focus on, for my taste they still end up being unappealing products.
Hell, I would play STO or LotRO before I would touch LoL. I would even play WoW before I touched that.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
i guess you missed school that year
rofl wait are you suggesting a game that is completely free that gets 0 revenue from any source?? ROFL
it would have to, in order , to be a truly FREE game, wouldnt it?
if not, then its CC driven...NOT free
I suppose it's a good thing we have all these F2P games so that they can generate revenue and keep running.
heh,,apparently, its a good idea , to reduce the Price by 100%
Strictly speaking a F2P game can be Free-to-Buy or Buy-to-Play. 100% reduction though - yeah - probably a simple recognition on EA's part that SWTOR was stalled and the F2P would go nowhere without new account signups.
I think when Bobsole1997 talks about "True F2P" games however he is talking about games that are designed as F2P from the ground up rather than F2P conversions like SWTOR. And to date F2P conversions tend not to compare well against true F2P games.
Micro-transactions are really something that need to be built in from day 1 - both from a getting the player to pay and in avoiding the feeling of restraint that conversions tend to have. Gamasutra and other sites have run several articles by F2P designers - along with some by Gabe Newell.
For example sub based games have historically tended to introduce grind. Things to slow you down or simply burn time. Reputation grinds, slow crafting, slow travel - boats in EQ1 were every 15 minutes I seem to recall and the trip itself wasn't fast. rare drops etc. There was a backlash and games speeded up. And speeded up. As Olsen and others said they didn't get the 3-4 months they (foolishly) expected to add new content; they very quickly had the bulk of the players at max level. Not good for a sub based game; maybe if they had taken notice of what was being said pre-launch people might still have had to buy SWTOR.
Strictly speaking a F2P game can be Free-to-Buy or Buy-to-Play. 100% reduction though - yeah - probably a simple recognition on EA's part that SWTOR was stalled and the F2P would go nowhere without new account signups.
I think when Bobsole1997 talks about "True F2P" games however he is talking about games that are designed as F2P from the ground up rather than F2P conversions like SWTOR. And to date F2P conversions tend not to compare well against true F2P games.
Micro-transactions are really something that need to be built in from day 1 - both from a getting the player to pay and in avoiding the feeling of restraint that conversions tend to have. Gamasutra and other sites have run several articles by F2P designers - along with some by Gabe Newell.
For example sub based games have historically tended to introduce grind. Things to slow you down or simply burn time. Reputation grinds, slow crafting, slow travel - boats in EQ1 were every 15 minutes I seem to recall and the trip itself wasn't fast. rare drops etc. There was a backlash and games speeded up. And speeded up. As Olsen and others said they didn't get the 3-4 months they (foolishly) expected to add new content; they very quickly had the bulk of the players at max level. Not good for a sub based game; maybe if they had taken notice of what was being said pre-launch people might still have had to buy SWTOR.
I think when people say "true" F2P they are referring to games that don't offer a sub (and never have). LotRO, DDO, EQ2, TOR, these are hybrids, not "true" F2P, because the free option in each is really just an extended kind of free trial.
And I really don't know where you are coming up with this thing about conversions not comparing well. Most of the games that convert end up being very successful products. And the TOR devs could have listened all you wanted pre-launch, but all themeparks run out of content, and it was never going to not be a themepark. And when your content has a cinematic style with full voice, it takes even longer to develop. The only way they could have been substantially faster is by delivering something that wasn't a BioWare style game, and it being a BioWare style game is the primary reason (other than the addition of the free option) it still has the million players a month it does have.
Moving to a hybrid model isn't a sign of a developer doing anything wrong. It is the new normal for games once players start finishing the initial content offering. If it doesn't happen to Wildstar and ESO as well, I will be shocked, and I expect those both to be very successful.
One last thing; the TOR dev is Ohlen, not Olsen.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Last time I logged in I had a pile of cartel coins (security key helps), but man just about everything costs cartel, enabling your character's title, hiding helmet slot, expanding bank, blahblahblah. May just as well charge us for breathing air too.
Comments
what happened, after you had the last link? nothing.. if you want links, find them yourself
This would be an awesome response if so much of the stuff you posted wasn't obviously just made up.
like EAs 10 mio "something" number, that turned into 10 mio accounts?
its even in the movie " truth is a matter of perspective"
or, would you argue with a jedi master?
Maybe it's stream of consciousness instead of just made up.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It doesn't matter if they don't have a sub, they aren't free which is what he was talking about. GW2 costs more than 3 months SWTOR sub.
a "true" F2P game ,without subs? where would the Money come from?
that game would be the perpetuum mobile.. i would like to play it
freemium opens the gate , for any kind on monetization, so they can get more Money from the same game
BTW, why didnt SWG go freemium? and warhammer online?
well no GW2 is not doing as well as they had hoped.
ROFL STO happy because of life subs? I take it you don't realize that life subs are a bad thing for developers. It's a quick cash grab. The only reason to do it is if you don't think you will be able to keep a subscrption from the player longer then 2 or 3 years.
STO is not doing well at all.
SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
Warhammer Online didnt go because what happened was they were given a budget to make the game F2P but the game director saw the success of LoL and other MOBAs so he used those funds to create Warhammer Wrath of Heroes.
Wrath of Heroes failed and the game was shut down.
There are tons of True F2P games with out subs. The money comes from cash shops. LoL, TF2, Dota 2, Maplestory and so on are all true F2P games.
Sounds like a list supporting my theory that if a game is quality, it offers a sub in addition to a free option, not just a free option.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Any model can be succesful if you budget for your income. Would SWTOR be making more money if they went full F2P? no defently not. For some a hybrid model is best.
Hey no worries , yeah not easy to find replies within swtor threads I hear you. Good luck to you too , whatever you play! Let us know if you do come back though and what your thoughts are about preferred status.
I think the only greediness items I can see are the mounts and dyes , they are over priced but as they are fluff then I'm not too bothered really.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
2-3 years, as opposed to, swtors 3 months? yeah
and GW2 didnt have to scratch THEIR stories..nuff said
no..they are CC driven games..somebody is stil opening their wallets
just because you Arent paying, doesnt mean, that nobody is paying
i guess you missed school that year
that would make those games the ones, without quality
LoL is one of mmos big cashcows
surprising, that a shit game has so many fans, huh?
rofl wait are you suggesting a game that is completely free that gets 0 revenue from any source?? ROFL
So not only do you have a gross misunderstanding of GW2's business model you also don't seem to know much about the game in general. There is a single story that every player goes through. Sure, they all start at a different spot but eventually all the stories converge and everyone follows the same story.
You also seem to unaware of all the story content that SWTOR has added to the game since launch. Even the last daily area Oricon has a story arc to follow. Yes, they haven't added any new class specific stories but saying they have scraped stories is being highly disingenuous. Of course being disingenuous seems to be your schtick.
Are you deluded? 35 million people play LoL. It's the largest played game in the world. It's a shit game. Logic. It must suck to be alone.
Steam: Neph
So he can't state his opinion that it is a shit game? I think LOL is shit too, so he isn't alone.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
it would have to, in order , to be a truly FREE game, wouldnt it?
if not, then its CC driven...NOT free
I suppose it's a good thing we have all these F2P games so that they can generate revenue and keep running.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
it was sarcasm, i can see LoLs quality, although i didnt like it personally
according to cazneerg, LoL is a low quality game, because it doesnt offer the option to sub
that was my point
PS 35 mio PLAYERS? yea , right
Apparently none of you noticed the
I was mostly making a point about how quality is a subjective measure, unlike success which can be objectively measured. I can recognize that a game can provide a quality experience for someone else while still providing a crappy experience for me, and vice versa. The elements of games which I actually care about are ones which games that don't offer a sub option consistently do a poor job of implementing, when they try to implement them at all. So no matter how good a job they do on what they do focus on, for my taste they still end up being unappealing products.
Hell, I would play STO or LotRO before I would touch LoL. I would even play WoW before I touched that.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
heh,,apparently, its a good idea , to reduce the Price by 100%
its a crazy world
Strictly speaking a F2P game can be Free-to-Buy or Buy-to-Play. 100% reduction though - yeah - probably a simple recognition on EA's part that SWTOR was stalled and the F2P would go nowhere without new account signups.
I think when Bobsole1997 talks about "True F2P" games however he is talking about games that are designed as F2P from the ground up rather than F2P conversions like SWTOR. And to date F2P conversions tend not to compare well against true F2P games.
Micro-transactions are really something that need to be built in from day 1 - both from a getting the player to pay and in avoiding the feeling of restraint that conversions tend to have. Gamasutra and other sites have run several articles by F2P designers - along with some by Gabe Newell.
For example sub based games have historically tended to introduce grind. Things to slow you down or simply burn time. Reputation grinds, slow crafting, slow travel - boats in EQ1 were every 15 minutes I seem to recall and the trip itself wasn't fast. rare drops etc. There was a backlash and games speeded up. And speeded up. As Olsen and others said they didn't get the 3-4 months they (foolishly) expected to add new content; they very quickly had the bulk of the players at max level. Not good for a sub based game; maybe if they had taken notice of what was being said pre-launch people might still have had to buy SWTOR.
I think when people say "true" F2P they are referring to games that don't offer a sub (and never have). LotRO, DDO, EQ2, TOR, these are hybrids, not "true" F2P, because the free option in each is really just an extended kind of free trial.
And I really don't know where you are coming up with this thing about conversions not comparing well. Most of the games that convert end up being very successful products. And the TOR devs could have listened all you wanted pre-launch, but all themeparks run out of content, and it was never going to not be a themepark. And when your content has a cinematic style with full voice, it takes even longer to develop. The only way they could have been substantially faster is by delivering something that wasn't a BioWare style game, and it being a BioWare style game is the primary reason (other than the addition of the free option) it still has the million players a month it does have.
Moving to a hybrid model isn't a sign of a developer doing anything wrong. It is the new normal for games once players start finishing the initial content offering. If it doesn't happen to Wildstar and ESO as well, I will be shocked, and I expect those both to be very successful.
One last thing; the TOR dev is Ohlen, not Olsen.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
Last time I logged in I had a pile of cartel coins (security key helps), but man just about everything costs cartel, enabling your character's title, hiding helmet slot, expanding bank, blahblahblah. May just as well charge us for breathing air too.