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Political correctness invades the MMO world.
Shana77
Member UncommonPosts: 290
So after I read the article about Carbines decision to reduce the breast size of their female models in Wildstar because a small vocal group felt offended by them, I have two lingering questions.
1. Should large breasted women be ashamed of themselves? This may seem like a weird statement, but there seems to be a very vocal and agressive minority that feels that large breasts are an insult to womenhood and they are getting their way.
2. Is this the start of a new trend, where western MMO's like Wildstar have to adjust their artistic style to the will of the PC crowd?
Are we going to see changes in male models as well? Are we going to see a variation of minorities, sexual preferences, religions in a sanatized model that is void of any hints of sexuality, petrified to offend anyone?
Comments
Its nice to play with others in MMOs, since that is the point... so while I do have preferences as in the actual freedom to choose between large - small (slider), I also like things to work out.
So I am not a stickler for these things, if the trade-off (change) benefits more by having a bustling trade center and a populated server... but this is an unknown, then sure thats good... and I am not even aware of the precise difference, it could be microscopic in reduction since they are male and female models... so there has to be a big enough difference... and even guys have large pectoral muscles, so if the women have larger ones to distinguish them, then that it is still large enough.
Its certainly a problem when the guys are larger than the females... even though females are a nice plush cushions, and the guys are more like a raw piece of steak.
MMMMM cushions... so sleepy...
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1. define "political correctness."
2. show how it is an overall harmful agenda.
i have heard people tossing this generalized boogey man around as a threat to the free world and democracy in america since the 90s. let's define our terms first.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Without having seen what the sizes were pre and post change, I can't form a personal opinion about this game in particular, but there is a tendency toward ridiculously large breasts in a lot of video games. It's one thing if there is a slider and you have the option of huge bazongas, it's another thing entirely when the game defaults to XXXXXXL and there is no way to change it.
Assuming their change is away from "unlikely to exist in many women without surgical enhancement" toward "average" size, it's probably a good aesthetic choice, regardless of the motivation.
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Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
How do you know it was changed because of complaining ? maybe it was done to make armor models have less clipping issues ? Or make them more universal. If all races had the same size...etc.
Did they actually say why ? I don't remember seeing it.
I think that they should keep the game exactly like they made it and that anyone who doesn't like it should not play it. That way they do not have to feel like they are being "invaded by political correctness" and they also will not make a dime off of anyone that they didn't care to represent.
I am sure that if they made a good game someone with good sense will come along and copy it and include women with small breasts and happily take all of that extra cash.
These are MMO's we are talking about after all. Or have you not seen that list of copies sitting over there to the left of your screen?
Maybe some jerk-off at the ratings board insisted they tone it down or be given an M rating.
It would certainly not be the first time someone was forced to do something retarded just to be able to sell their game to a reasonable number of human beings.
Yeah would have to see a before and after shot to make up my own mind.
I will say from life experience that large breasted women more often than not find their endowments to be a curse and a result tend to avoid strenuous physical activity. So in truth you wont normally find a well endowed lady wading tirelessly through waves of enemies and running pell mell across the countryside - its an incongruous representation. Perhaps this was their thinking when making the adjustment?
And please understand Im not saying they cannot, just that they usually choose not. In all truth though Ive been browbeaten by feminists enough that I feel bad even trying to think about the topic or speak upon it and that all my opinions are invalidated due to my owning a Penis.
Hey if more female gamers play as a result, I would be more than happy to be a vocal supporter;)
Fact is, most developers on these AAA games are wayyy pro D-cup and I have definitely heard the "the girls are trampy" argument many a time when trying to persuade reluctant female nongamers..
hehe imho this is a funny thread.......political correctness and morals ingame....we have no problems killing of chickens and bunny's and all other animals we see ingame but we are offended by boobs now?
Sorry i realy can't take a subject like this serious...rly!
gamers need to grow up man....
sup with that?
Hey OP, which article was that? I don't remember reading any articles about the female boobs being changed because of a small group of people. I do remember reading an article about Winter Patch 2 changes and one small paragraph on the female model adjustment of two races - TWO. Granok boobies are still boulders.
WildStar isn't PC. The human and aurin boobs were huge and now they're just big. WildStar isn't the poster child for political correctness nor does it aim to be.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I would, personally like to see the artists try to pull off sexy characters without resorting to the whole "everyone's a DD in a chainmail bikini" although its alot harder to do, but a better display of talent. Dragon's crown, I kinda get it, everyone besides the elf was redicuously exagerated to begin with, so it fits there.
I'm also in the camp of wanting to see a before and after picture, because if there were extremely out of proportion with the rest of the body, it just might be weird, or take away from the models.
Political correctness has different definitions, a dictionary one would suffice, but you would notice there it is described in both a positive and negative way. It has a harmful agenda because it is being used as a reason for any sort of social change. Rather than presenting evidence of need for change it is deemed politically correct to do so. The phrase has fallen out of favour due to its negative associations. It has been largely replaced by 'social justice', which in turn is used as a rallying cry for any social policy supported by the persons using it.
I am not questions intentions, the intentions of those who use such phrases are grand. I am questioning the use of these terms as labels for "what I think is right'. Social policy needs to be founded on rational debate, not slogans.
Come on and lets be honest. Dev's do tend to go overboard with titties. Flowing in a breeze as if they were a blade of grass or a tree (more like it, size). Any comparison shots, new and old. I don't follow this game. I'm willing to bet they are still absurdly large and flippy-floppy balloons that when flexed should pop every piece of clothing covering them.
Not to say there's anything wrong with that in general.
Edit: Actually, I'd say dev's in general tend to discriminate against saggers.
I never get it when people freak out about kids seeing breasts... yet they say breast feeding is ok (or do children have to have their eyes closed?).
Now if it was sexualised like Scarlet Blade.. yeah maybe not so much for kids.
Its been around for a long time, this isn't new, but it is spreading...now we have the "don't say anything bad about a game" crowd.
The infection is spreading.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
"because a small vocal group felt offended by them"
Link to source please.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/wildstar-and-the-case-of-the-too-pretty-alien-females
http://robothyena.tumblr.com/post/69851398783/wildstar-character-design-female-objectification
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
This is so American. It's ok to mercilessly slay an army of other intelligent (and nonintelligent) beings, but it's taboo to show any skin or big tits (even through clothing).
The world is seriously going to hell.
Why didn't Carbine just add a slider to adjust breast size and let the players decide how shapely they want their characters to look. Let all the feminists then reduce their breast size to minimum if they want.
MMO world was invaded by political correctness long ago. Several Asian games decided to cover up or tone down their avatars in order to not offend western sensibilities (TERA being one, but there are more), and it's been argued for more years than I can remember that armor on female avatars (L2 and many others) is ridiculously small and over sexualized.
I've seen debates over why certain games don't have more racial choices in them, whether or not it is correct for someone to play an avatar of the opposite sex, or should the storyline contain same sex relationships (SWTOR).
We're all sorts of twisted around the concept of political correctness these days, and you can't really do anything it seems without offending someone, somewhere.
So this is nothing new, and unless the female characters in Wildstar start wearing habits I wouldn't worry too much.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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They want to add sliders, but, as Frost said, animation and clipping issues have to be worked out for that to happen. Those arent a priority right now as they approach launch, I would guess, so they're coming later.
I think that might be the reason for the reduction, in the absence of sliders, they wanted to go more middle of the road.
But if we look at historical data, how many MMOs have actually added any meaningful depth into character generation after launch? It's pretty unlikely any sliders will ever be implemented, if they aren't in by launch.
They might prove me wrong, of course.