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Will the PvP area be a zerg fest?

13

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by jdnyc 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

    Actually the crowd controll was what made it fun.... Because dps and healing where for once not the main ingredients...   Crowd controll was the single thing that brought emotions to the game...  And offered well trained teams a huge advantage.  Yes it was overpowered... But then my healer with all its crowd controll and healing could not kill a lvl 1 rat solo...  But in a group, he turned intoo a beacon.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by jdnyc 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

    That doesn't make it worse.  You needed teammates to have your back and strategy before you engaged.  Something that all PVP should be about.

    Sadly too many people want to be Rambo instead and that's what makes PVP suck.

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

    UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

    But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

    I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

    My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

    3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

    *may be exaggerating due to A) nostalgia B) it was 15 years ago

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    There most certainly will be Zergs. It takes a lot of people to take a keep. At the same time the Cryodill map won't allow circle zerging like we saw in gw2. Also the shear size of the place makes room for some interesting solo and small group play. The solo play is what hooked me. The place is very well built.
  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

    UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

    But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

    I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

    My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

    3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

    I played a hybrid mage mainly for PVE farming but I could solo most below average players trying to gank me and could even kill some of the baddies on Pacific. I was honestly never comfortable in 2D being more of a twitch real time reaction player. UO was the MMO for RTS players, so if you could micro manage well you could dominate in that game. I know I remember one guy had a lumberjack Axer mage  hybrid which was a pain to deal with, but I always build my specs to fight running away.

  • AlminieAlminie Silent hill, NYPosts: 109Member
    Originally posted by Pigglesworth
    More to get caught in my AoE spells. I plan to specialize all my morphs into AoEs.

     

     

    then you will want the [Mage Ultimate Skill] *wink*wink*

  • CeldrynCeldryn Rock Hill, SCPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Man, you never ran with a good gank group then in Daoc. Did you even play it ? Also, ambushing in Emain or Dun Crimthian... Please...

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon

    i can't stand structured pvp anymore, i much prefer open style pvp. not because it isn't fair but because it makes the world feel more alive and realistic.

    when i am hunting i like the danger of an open pvp world and when i get in a fight it actually gets my blood pumping.

    in a structured pvp scenario, it doesn't get my blood pumping, it starts to feel a lot like pve after a while.

    zerging can have the same effect too but i tend to go off on my own or in small groups when that happens.

    plus if its a siege, i don't really consider that a zerg unless that huge group goes from keep to keep with no real strategy involved, the true definition of the term.

    you need s big group to take a keep after all. mass pvp often gets labeled a zerg just because of the amount of people involved.

    some of the best and most fun pvp i have ever experienced involved mass pvp, especially in EQ1 when guilds would fight over spawns and camps.

    that's the type of pvp i like.

  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAPosts: 743Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

    Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

    image
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    If the game succeeds (i.e. attracts a large number of players), then it will be a zerg fest by definition. Large groups are never organised.
  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by General-Zod
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

    Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    My guess is ESO pvp will be the exact same as GW2 PVP.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    @badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

    Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    My guess is ESO pvp will be the exact same as GW2 PVP.

     

    Played both, it's not the same

  • shalissarshalissar Pohjois-PohjanmaaPosts: 294Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Yes, by design. By that I mean it's designed for large scale PVP.

    When I read the OP I was like, "Duhhhhhhh? Is the pope catholic?" People are going to band together in zergs because it's safe. It's a thing that just naturally happens. The best thing you can do, if you don't want to be part of the zerg, is to maybe organize a small squad for flanking and scouting.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    @badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

    Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.

    That gives me some hope. 

     

    Also I understand it takes alot of people to take a keep ( or it should ) and i dont consider that a " zerg fest "  that is just mass pvp i get that.

    but what really bothers me in these mass pvp areas is when you have 2 keeps close enough so 2 zergs can just do the endless mind numbing push back and forth back and forth untill one side gets bored and leaves.

    I saw this alot in GW2 and it was so terrible, run with the zerg button mash aoe spells, or its looking bad run back to our keep defend while they die then they run back to their keep we chase, rinse repeat for 4 hours. " uninstall "

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

  • RelGnRelGn halalaPosts: 494Member

    the pvp will be like gw2 don't worry it will be a zerg fest

    You know like the bees

    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions

    Word.

     

    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    ...Alteric Valley...

    Interesting that you mention Alterac Valley, because that was actually interesting PvP with "matches" that could last many days and which could not be zerged when it first was released. Subsequent changes dumbed it down and made it a zerg fest, but the original AV was a good example of balanced and non-zergable PvP.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    If the game succeeds (i.e. attracts a large number of players), then it will be a zerg fest by definition. Large groups are never organised.

    you are very incorrect. first of all, the amount of people that play TESO will have no effect on the amount of people that play in any one given cyrodiil campaign.

    second of all, i have been in and witnessed organized mass pvp before, its not the same as mindless zerging.

    third of all, cyrodiil is too big to just zerg from keep to keep. zerging keeps is going to be a terrible and losing format in this game.

    but people will still try it i am sure, and lose.

  • cnutempcnutemp Fairfax, VAPosts: 229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

    Tell the folks at eve online that.  Their most popular videos are always the large / epic fleet fights.  People want to be apart of some huge epic battle.  Otherwise there are a plethora of moba / arena rpg games out there with more even fights.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Unfortunately, I think any game without collision detection is destined to be a zerg fest.

    You make me like charity

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