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Will the PvP area be a zerg fest?

13

Comments

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

    UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

    But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

    I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

    My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

    3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

    *may be exaggerating due to A) nostalgia B) it was 15 years ago

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    There most certainly will be Zergs. It takes a lot of people to take a keep. At the same time the Cryodill map won't allow circle zerging like we saw in gw2. Also the shear size of the place makes room for some interesting solo and small group play. The solo play is what hooked me. The place is very well built.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

    UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

    But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

    I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

    My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

    3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

    I played a hybrid mage mainly for PVE farming but I could solo most below average players trying to gank me and could even kill some of the baddies on Pacific. I was honestly never comfortable in 2D being more of a twitch real time reaction player. UO was the MMO for RTS players, so if you could micro manage well you could dominate in that game. I know I remember one guy had a lumberjack Axer mage  hybrid which was a pain to deal with, but I always build my specs to fight running away.

  • AlminieAlminie Member UncommonPosts: 114
    Originally posted by Pigglesworth
    More to get caught in my AoE spells. I plan to specialize all my morphs into AoEs.

     

     

    then you will want the [Mage Ultimate Skill] *wink*wink*

  • CeldrynCeldryn Member Posts: 84
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Man, you never ran with a good gank group then in Daoc. Did you even play it ? Also, ambushing in Emain or Dun Crimthian... Please...

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    i can't stand structured pvp anymore, i much prefer open style pvp. not because it isn't fair but because it makes the world feel more alive and realistic.

    when i am hunting i like the danger of an open pvp world and when i get in a fight it actually gets my blood pumping.

    in a structured pvp scenario, it doesn't get my blood pumping, it starts to feel a lot like pve after a while.

    zerging can have the same effect too but i tend to go off on my own or in small groups when that happens.

    plus if its a siege, i don't really consider that a zerg unless that huge group goes from keep to keep with no real strategy involved, the true definition of the term.

    you need s big group to take a keep after all. mass pvp often gets labeled a zerg just because of the amount of people involved.

    some of the best and most fun pvp i have ever experienced involved mass pvp, especially in EQ1 when guilds would fight over spawns and camps.

    that's the type of pvp i like.

  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

    Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

    image
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    If the game succeeds (i.e. attracts a large number of players), then it will be a zerg fest by definition. Large groups are never organised.
  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by General-Zod
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

    Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

    and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

     I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

     

    Oh and choose your battles wisely

    Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

    Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

    I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

    Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

    Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

  • BadaboomBadaboom Member UncommonPosts: 2,380
    My guess is ESO pvp will be the exact same as GW2 PVP.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    @badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

    Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • deakondeakon Member Posts: 583
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    My guess is ESO pvp will be the exact same as GW2 PVP.

     

    Played both, it's not the same

  • shalissarshalissar Member UncommonPosts: 509
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Yes, by design. By that I mean it's designed for large scale PVP.

    When I read the OP I was like, "Duhhhhhhh? Is the pope catholic?" People are going to band together in zergs because it's safe. It's a thing that just naturally happens. The best thing you can do, if you don't want to be part of the zerg, is to maybe organize a small squad for flanking and scouting.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,701
    Originally posted by bcbully
    @badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

    Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.

    That gives me some hope. 

     

    Also I understand it takes alot of people to take a keep ( or it should ) and i dont consider that a " zerg fest "  that is just mass pvp i get that.

    but what really bothers me in these mass pvp areas is when you have 2 keeps close enough so 2 zergs can just do the endless mind numbing push back and forth back and forth untill one side gets bored and leaves.

    I saw this alot in GW2 and it was so terrible, run with the zerg button mash aoe spells, or its looking bad run back to our keep defend while they die then they run back to their keep we chase, rinse repeat for 4 hours. " uninstall "

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

  • RelGnRelGn Member Posts: 494

    the pvp will be like gw2 don't worry it will be a zerg fest

    You know like the bees

    image
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311


    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    If the game succeeds (i.e. attracts a large number of players), then it will be a zerg fest by definition. Large groups are never organised.

    you are very incorrect. first of all, the amount of people that play TESO will have no effect on the amount of people that play in any one given cyrodiil campaign.

    second of all, i have been in and witnessed organized mass pvp before, its not the same as mindless zerging.

    third of all, cyrodiil is too big to just zerg from keep to keep. zerging keeps is going to be a terrible and losing format in this game.

    but people will still try it i am sure, and lose.

  • cnutempcnutemp Member UncommonPosts: 230
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

    Tell the folks at eve online that.  Their most popular videos are always the large / epic fleet fights.  People want to be apart of some huge epic battle.  Otherwise there are a plethora of moba / arena rpg games out there with more even fights.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Unfortunately, I think any game without collision detection is destined to be a zerg fest.

    You make me like charity

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by cnutemp
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

    Tell the folks at eve online that.  Their most popular videos are always the large / epic fleet fights.  People want to be apart of some huge epic battle.  Otherwise there are a plethora of moba / arena rpg games out there with more even fights.

    That's because those are the only Eve videos that are at all entertaining.  Eve does not have very exciting PvP, and it's definitely not exciting to watch unless there's a ton of people involved.  Even then, anyone not in a huge ship is just static, and not really paid attention to.  You never see comments talking about how amazing some random fighter is (even if he's more than pulling his own weight) because people can't really see him.

    You make me like charity

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by cnutemp
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
     

    No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

    Nah.  It has more to do with you supporting a different sports team...i mean video game.

    DAoC isn't designed to be a solo PVP experience.

    It does not have to be a solo pvp experience to not be a zergfest. Honestly its so restrictive its essentially a giant battleground  and since most people are not going to cover an area of land much larger than Alteric Valley before they get into a large scale pvp battle, the question arises, why not just play a game with open world pvp, Structured pvp AND RVR and or Battlegrounds. Zerging keeps is ok from time to time but I dont see you holding a large player base for years on end with it. I mean how interesting can the walls be?

    Tell the folks at eve online that.  Their most popular videos are always the large / epic fleet fights.  People want to be apart of some huge epic battle.  Otherwise there are a plethora of moba / arena rpg games out there with more even fights.

    That's because those are the only Eve videos that are at all entertaining.  Eve does not have very exciting PvP, and it's definitely not exciting to watch unless there's a ton of people involved.  Even then, anyone not in a huge ship is just static, and not really paid attention to.  You never see comments talking about how amazing some random fighter is (even if he's more than pulling his own weight) because people can't really see him.

    EVEs pvp is a hell of a lot more than Zergs running around I still have an active account and you wont bore me with that BS. There is more than enough opportunity to run into pirates in that game and not zerg pvp encounters  as well as large battles which are usually organized battles over supremacy. Again you can have large battles but you can also world pvp to your hearts content solo or in small groups. Its about enjoying the games overall pvp not making youtube videos. 

    Now I sort of want to log on. 

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    There's Zergs in every PvP focued game from DAoC to Darkfall.  All had their Aergy nature but what is put in place to appeal to the small scale PvP'er is the make or break aspect.  And I feel ESO will parlay this into a good PvP game because it's done away with the things that made Zergs "the only" way in games such as GW2 or WAR.  Having a zone so huge that a zerg couldn't possibly cover the first thing they got right where others got wrong.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • deakondeakon Member Posts: 583
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    There's Zergs in every PvP focued game from DAoC to Darkfall.  All had their Aergy nature but what is put in place to appeal to the small scale PvP'er is the make or break aspect.  And I feel ESO will parlay this into a good PvP game because it's done away with the things that made Zergs "the only" way in games such as GW2 or WAR.  Having a zone so huge that a zerg couldn't possibly cover the first thing they got right where others got wrong.

    I would also say having an overall objective to the map that is easy to deny the opposition no matter how far your faction is behind also helps discourage lumping the majority of your forces in one place

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