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Guild Wars 2: Don't Count Them Out Yet

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  • Vexus_XVexus_X Orlando, FLPosts: 40Member

    Guild Wars 2 is a 10/10 game, and anyone who did not like the game either a) did not play it or b) never played WoW or any other MMORPG before and doesn't know what to do.

    The best post above is the one that states the fact they like knowing they can come back to GW2 any time, but has no idea why they do not want to come back. That is how I feel as well. There is no challenge, and the end-game has no point besides fun. And as good as fun is, there still needs to be some kind of threat at the end.

    WoW is still successful despite all its failings because it has conflict. That is what is missing from GW2. To date, my wife still has a Horde sticker on her car. She will still say "For the Horde!" as a cheer, and she still hates the Alliance. But she hasn't played WoW for a long time, and I have not played for even longer. Even myself, if I meet someone who played Alliance, they definitely drop a notch in my book.

    GW2 needs to add conflict between players. Something for people to rally behind. Just as Democrats and Republicans bring massive amounts of attention and funding by bashing the other side, GW2 needs two enemy factions to go head to head. I strongly suggest that GW2 goes wild and adds an entire new faction complete with new races and their own continent and pits them against the all-loving-happy-guys which make up the current unconflicted population. A Horde to fight the Alliance, so to speak. In doing so, players will re-roll new characters, they will come back to the game, they will want to fight their enemies. They will complain that they are always outnumbered and that it is always unfair, and they will fall asleep every night loving it.

    Bring some World PvP into GW2. Bring some Faction vs. Faction (vs. Faction!?!?!) warfare into the minds of your players. Right now, the server vs. server is kind of impersonal and does not leave me with any satisfaction in winning or losing. Having an enemy try and kill me while I'm in the world who is also on my server... now that's fun, and worth my time.

    I think the PvE is amazing. I think the WvW is great (but maybe a bit too predictable). I think the Arena matches are extremely balanced and require strategy rather than just burst (WoW). But in the open world - I for one who has explored maybe 10-20% of the map - is useless.

    Imagine doing a quest where you have to escort an NPC across a zone while defending him from enemy players on an assassination quest to end the NPC's life. How cool would that be? Right now, we get to sit in WvW and escort a yak while no one cares.

    I love GW2 and would be so happy to have them add some conflict to get me back in the game. Right now, GW2 is a 10/10 in my book with no reason to log back into the game.

     
  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 877Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by black_isle

    Not gonna return for just a few zones and a new race. They have to put in meaningful character progression beyond level 20, more frequent events that are easy to find and participate and make dungeons properly. Actually i have so many gripes with this game from terrible armor design to elementary school level writing, i don't think there is anything they can do for me at this point.

     

    And what will happen after the expansion, more weapon skins and backpacks? Grindy achievements that means nothing? Everyone says the combat is good but with at least 1 min cds on every other skill you just end up spamming a couple skills and wait for your cds to end. Action combat, you guys!!

     

    Yeah i'll just pass tbh. I mean these are the guys that screwed up basic classes like elementalist, necro and ranger.

    What do you claim as "meaningful progression"?  GW2 has Ascended gear,  Legendary Weapons, sPvP Ranks, and WvW Ranks.  The new Fractals as well as the Nightmare branch of Twilight Arbor are big dungeon improvements that they've been progressing with the game.

     

    Overall the game has far more "meaningful progression" in it's Living World story and different game modes than many other MMORPG's have.  There's flexible choices for the players to determine just how they want to play the game instead of being forced down a single narrow path.  

     

    Expansions are there for features, and I'm hoping for the biggest one of them all:  Player housing.  Some people see this as "carebear", but they're ignorantly wrong.   Housing helps establish a player's attachment to the game world that they play within.  


  • Butch808Butch808 sheffieldPosts: 319Member Uncommon
    It's still the best fantasy mmo on the market still, that says alot.
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Butch808
    It's still the best fantasy mmo on the market still, that says alot.

    Unfortunately, you're right.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member

    Terrible statement "don't count us out yet"

    So ... according to their own developpers they are almost "out" ?

    This sounds terrible for the fans in the long run.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by Butch808
    It's still the best fantasy mmo on the market still, that says alot.
     

    Subjective opinion ... not supported by the number of other opinions - heuh - players.

    That title still goes to WoW, an almost 10 year old game. THAT says a lot more about the state of MMORPG's too.

    :(

    PS. So MMO's are almost out? We knew that 2 years ago.

     
  • DragnelusDragnelus UtrechtPosts: 477Member Uncommon
    Counted it out, last summer!
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sportsfan
    Originally posted by Butch808
    It's still the best fantasy mmo on the market still, that says alot.
     

    Subjective opinion ... not supported by the number of other opinions - heuh - players.

    That title still goes to WoW, an almost 10 year old game. THAT says a lot more about the state of MMORPG's too.

    :(

    PS. So MMO's are almost out? We knew that 2 years ago.

     

    I would love to see the number of active subs WoW has in the west, but fat chance we'll ever see those.

     

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Sunnyvale, CAPosts: 485Member

    GW2 is an excellent game. It does have issues though - and it turns alot of players off.

    1) Not enough gear is difficulty gated. This means there is very little elitism in the game - but also very little reason to be good at your job. Yeah you can do Fractals and its hard. So that's progression of sorts but you can get ascended gear through strict grinding and that's not great.

    2) Not enough obvious seperation between good and bad players. Again I see that in every thread about GW2 - you get 'you can just hit any ability at any time - there is no depth.' This actually isn't true. A good GW2 player can not only beat many other players in PvP but they can tackle tough content (say solo champions or even whole dungeons) and go through high level fractals with ease. The key to doing this is onscreen postioning, proper teamwork from others, and proper timing of abilities. The problem is GW2 doesn't really give bad players any indication that they aren't doing as well as they should. The bad players still complete most of the content. They still roll to 80. So again there is no real reason to get good at the game - even though you can.

    3) No Holy Trinity. Eliminating the Holy Trinity absolutely had its upsides. No more whining about bad tanks or healers - no more people coasting by in dungeons. It all sounds great - but here is the issue. There is no real accountability. No one knows exactly what they should be doing (some people as shown by their thread just spam random buttons) and there is no real guide to performing well thats obvious to players. In a dungeon tanks that are squishy or don't draw aggro are bad. Healers that let tanks go for a long time without healing are bad and DPS where nothing dies quickly are bad.

    4) As pointed out early - no factions. It's less fun if everyone has to be 'good' it makes the world dull and boring. I want to be fighting against some PC guys who work for the bad guys. That could be so much fun in PvE and PvP.

    You have none of this in GW2.

    THe amazing thing is despite all these flaws GW2 is excellent. Its a must play for at least a month of your life. It has the best music, really smooth and visceral action style combat, great graphics with customization and huge world to explore.. plus their events are pretty damn cool and its remarkably bug free. All for a low one time price..awesome.

    Most games suffer from execution problems. GW2s problems are in a way spirtual. They just picked the wrong design decisions. Wildstar seems to be GW2 done right. I feel a bit bad for Arenanet - but going to play Wildstar anyway.

    I personally do think GW2 is the best MMO ever made - but its horribly flawed. WoW seems great but is fubared in other weird ways once you get into it. One of the worst features is the add on situation which forces a time killing 'add on' race at high levels of play. Design wise though it was much stronger for most of its history.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    I've yet to see a MMORPG that is dying that actually increased their workforce by 16% since release.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by sportsfan

    Terrible statement "don't count us out yet"

    So ... according to their own developpers they are almost "out" ?

    This sounds terrible for the fans in the long run.

    I did not realize that MMORPG.com developed Guild Wars 2.  That's interesting!  Do you have sources on that?  Because unless you do, it's actually the writer of this news & features discussion topic that created the title name, and the text 'don't count us out yet' is not part of the quoted article on the original site, not even by the original article writer, much less anything said by an Arenanet developer. :(

    edit:  Specifically, after going back to check, it is apparently SBFord who wrote the title.  Though she might be Colin Johanson in disguise! :O

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by sportsfan Terrible statement "don't count us out yet" So ... according to their own developpers they are almost "out" ? This sounds terrible for the fans in the long run.
    I did not realize that MMORPG.com developed Guild Wars 2.  That's interesting!  Do you have sources on that?  Because unless you do, it's actually the writer of this news & features discussion topic that created the title name, and the text 'don't count us out yet' is not part of the quoted article on the original site, not even by the original article writer, much less anything said by an Arenanet developer. :(

    Yes but unfortunately, you cannot report the writing staff for baiting heh.
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Vexus_X

     

    Bring some World PvP into GW2. Bring some Faction vs. Faction (vs. Faction!?!?!) warfare into the minds of your players. Right now, the server vs. server is kind of impersonal and does not leave me with any satisfaction in winning or losing. Having an enemy try and kill me while I'm in the world who is also on my server... now that's fun, and worth my time.

    I think the PvE is amazing. I think the WvW is great (but maybe a bit too predictable). I think the Arena matches are extremely balanced and require strategy rather than just burst (WoW). But in the open world - I for one who has explored maybe 10-20% of the map - is useless.

    Imagine doing a quest where you have to escort an NPC across a zone while defending him from enemy players on an assassination quest to end the NPC's life. How cool would that be? Right now, we get to sit in WvW and escort a yak while no one cares.

     

     

    NOOOOOOOOOOOO......!!

    Well, if they go that route I expect them to provide a non-PvP server, because I despise having to deal with a-holes in my RPG. When I feel like cracking some skulls I hop on to Eternal BG.

  • amber-ramber-r londonPosts: 323Member

    Arenanet has proven that their word is worth nothing, they have lied, changed promises and shown that they simply are not a company of their word.

     

    Gw2 is a great game but I don't really listen to anything they say anymore, actions is what counts with Arenanet.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    This game is just so bad... That's all there is to it! It may have been good but once they decided that permanent content wasn't going to be part of the game it went downhill and fast! It hasn't even been a year and the majority of people are sick of GW2.

     

    So yeah, they need an expansion or they need to do something that radically makes the game not a freaking achievement grind. This game wasn't ever supposed to be about grind according to them, and yet all it is, is grinding for the worst freaking living stories (aka events because they literally aren't any different from them), with some of the worst writing I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It's on par with poorly translated Asian games when it comes to the writing. Just terrible and facepalm worthy.

     

    It's extremely frustrating because I had such high hopes for GW2 and it turned into some bi-weekly loot box cash grab, and it looks like they just hire random fan-fiction writers!

     
     

    Smile

  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Porto AlegrePosts: 1,019Member Uncommon

    Seriously? people wanting Faction vs Faction on GW2 just need to go home.

    Gw1 was Humans Vs Human cause the guilds (lore) that torn the lands.

    GW2 theme is unity, the dragons appeared now we all (human, chars, salad,) must put their differences behind and fight these enemies together.

    I like that GW2 is trying to do something different than the others, someone needs the balls to do it, not that they get it 100% of the time, but they are trying, someone on this stale market is trying.

    But thats your MMORPG forums: "Do something new! wait i mean do exactly like that old mmo" 

     

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • muthaxmuthax mondaPosts: 593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jockan

    GW2 was one of the worst mmos I ever played.

    LOL

     

    Well, at least it's nice to see the Hate Train give TESO a bit of rest...

    I feel SO sorry for WildStar and all the games coming out in the next months

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,291Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by sportsfan
    Originally posted by Butch808
    It's still the best fantasy mmo on the market still, that says alot.
     

    Subjective opinion ... not supported by the number of other opinions - heuh - players.

    That title still goes to WoW, an almost 10 year old game. THAT says a lot more about the state of MMORPG's too.

    :(

    PS. So MMO's are almost out? We knew that 2 years ago.

     

    I would love to see the number of active subs WoW has in the west, but fat chance we'll ever see those.

     

    Even the most conservative estimates put the western subs at least over 3.5 million, either way, more than total box sales of GW2, of which we know that only a fraction of which are even active any more. And then there is FF XIV:ARR, hugely successful at relaunch, and still doing exceptionally well,  whichever way you look at it, both World of Warcraft and FF XIV;ARR are more popular than GW2, and thats just in the fantasy genre, if you add the rest, both SW;TOR - contentious maybe, but imo, the game is far better, and if you include both sub and f2p player numbers, also more popular than GW2,  and then there is Eve, my other favourite, 450k - 500k active subs, and possibly more active players than GW2, but if you add in games like Planetside 2, which definitely has way more players, even if it is a F2P/P2P hybrid, which does the whole RvRvR PvP in a way that is not only more fun, but a hell of a lot more meaningful than you get in GW2's WvWvW PvP.

    The only way Arenanet is going to improve things, is to add a significant Expansion to the game, and fast, there is a very good reason why the game is still in decline, and thats because after a certain point it gets pretty boring fast. image

  • GettCoupedGettCouped Staten Island, NYPosts: 43Member Uncommon
    The doom and negativity of this comment section is concerning.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry

     

    Even the most conservative estimates put the western subs at least over 3.5 million, either way, more than total box sales of GW2, of which we know that only a fraction of which are even active any more. And then there is FF XIV:ARR, hugely successful at relaunch, and still doing exceptionally well,  whichever way you look at it, both World of Warcraft and FF XIV;ARR are more popular than GW2, and thats just in the fantasy genre, if you add the rest, both SW;TOR - contentious maybe, but imo, the game is far better, and if you include both sub and f2p player numbers, also more popular than GW2,  and then there is Eve, my other favourite, 450k - 500k active subs, and possibly more active players than GW2, but if you add in games like Planetside 2, which definitely has way more players, even if it is a F2P/P2P hybrid, which does the whole RvRvR PvP in a way that is not only more fun, but a hell of a lot more meaningful than you get in GW2's WvWvW PvP.

    The only way Arenanet is going to improve things, is to add a significant Expansion to the game, and fast, there is a very good reason why the game is still in decline, and thats because after a certain point it gets pretty boring fast. image

     

     EVE having more players than GW2?

    CCP revenue for Jan'13-Jun'13: $36M.

    GW2 revenue for Jan'13-Jun'13: $61M.

    CCP lifetime revenue $410M. GW2 lifetime revenue: $238M.

    How the heck is a game without a sub fee making 70% more revenue than one with a sub fee if the sub fee one has more players?

     Lets look at FF14.

    image

    600K subs as of November 2013.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GettCouped
    The doom and negativity of this comment section is concerning.
     

    You will find comments don't really translate into real life most often.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

    After all the lies from Arenanet and NCSoft, I say loud and clear:

     

    I WILL BELIEVE IT, WHEN I SEE IT!

    Bingo!!!

    Words are cheap..anyone can use them. But how Anet has been doing U TURN on everything they have said since the inception of 'manifesto'... my money is on 'just more of  BS'. 

     

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Phry

     

    Even the most conservative estimates put the western subs at least over 3.5 million, either way, more than total box sales of GW2, of which we know that only a fraction of which are even active any more. And then there is FF XIV:ARR, hugely successful at relaunch, and still doing exceptionally well,  whichever way you look at it, both World of Warcraft and FF XIV;ARR are more popular than GW2, and thats just in the fantasy genre, if you add the rest, both SW;TOR - contentious maybe, but imo, the game is far better, and if you include both sub and f2p player numbers, also more popular than GW2,  and then there is Eve, my other favourite, 450k - 500k active subs, and possibly more active players than GW2, but if you add in games like Planetside 2, which definitely has way more players, even if it is a F2P/P2P hybrid, which does the whole RvRvR PvP in a way that is not only more fun, but a hell of a lot more meaningful than you get in GW2's WvWvW PvP.

    The only way Arenanet is going to improve things, is to add a significant Expansion to the game, and fast, there is a very good reason why the game is still in decline, and thats because after a certain point it gets pretty boring fast. image

     

     EVE having more players than GW2?

    CCP revenue for Jan'13-Jun'13: $36M.

    GW2 revenue for Jan'13-Jun'13: $61M.

    CCP lifetime revenue $410M. GW2 lifetime revenue: $238M.

    How the heck is a game without a sub fee making 70% more revenue than one with a sub fee if the sub fee one has more players?

     Lets look at FF14.

    image

    600K subs as of November 2013.

     

     

    Here we go again using outdated info for GW2 revenue to prove a point lets wait until February to see the real picture. Will it be another big loss in revenue or have they stopped the slide downwards?

     

     

    OP.

    More promises? What happened to that big list of stuff that was going into the game by the end of 2013? it seems they love PR more than actually developing the game.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

    After all the lies from Arenanet and NCSoft, I say loud and clear:

     

    I WILL BELIEVE IT, WHEN I SEE IT!

    This.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • GreatswordGreatsword ViennaPosts: 101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar
    When a company has to make a statement saying "don't count us out yet," it is time to count them out. GW2 must be doing even worse than most people thought.

    My thoughts exactly...

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