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The fact that this game is under NDA says more about the state of the game than anyone breaking the

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  • Tindale111Tindale111 croydonPosts: 197Member
    I have been playing the beta and hopefully im not breaking NDA by saying I don't think they are trying to hide anything .but as in any beta there may be a few bugs here and their which people seem to get upset about even tho it is beta if you want to hate on a game or something about it peed you off, its simple don't play it
  • TheodwulfTheodwulf Brockton, MAPosts: 231Member Uncommon
    I am going to agree with you,  3 months until launch and they are still being real careful about NDA. Not just having it, BUT enforcing it like it matters.  I can see having lots of legalize to protect your product but  concealing the product from the consumer seem counter productive at this point..we'll see soon enough.
  • BigbadwlfBigbadwlf Philadelphia, PAPosts: 116Member
    I'm not in the beta, so I don't know if I am bound by NDA.  But I have been watching some illegal streams on twitch, and my first impressions is that the Forbes guy is 100% correct about this game turning into another SWTOR.  I successfully dodge SWTOR like diaper bomb, and I'm going to dodge this game as well.
  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Can you name an mmo that didn't have it's beta under NDA at some point ?

    Guild wars 2 lifted the NDA for the beta weekend events and lifted it for the press even before the weekend events in closed beta. It's not about having the NDA at some point but when they lift it. The fact that they haven't lifted it for this event is telling to me compared to GW2.

    Also I get that MMORPG.com respects the NDA so please abide by it.

    Edit: To further clarify my position. Guild Wars 2 lifted the NDA for April 27-29 and all beta weekend events after then released August 28th.

    GW2 had its closed beta phase too. You are assuming that alll MMOS follow same patterns when it comes to NDA.

    No I'm not. I'm comparing a specific example with dates and the same weekend events process.

    One lifted the NDA one did not.

    Guild Wars 2 Beta wiki

    Yeah so what i said. You expect ESO to follow same beta patterns as GW2. Moreover you are comparing an open  beta weekend of GW2 with closed beta weekend of ESO.

    Who made this rule that that if beta testing is on weekends it has to be open?

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't expect ESO to follow the same beta patterns, I didn't assume all MMOs follow the same beta patterns.

    Guild Wars 2 could have kept the NDA. They didn't because they were fine with people sharing information about the game and didn't have anything to hide.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,436Member Uncommon

    I will mention a few FACTS ,that kind of prove how lame Beta NDA's really are.

    FACT a developer wants the game to be favorable to as many customers as possible.

    FACT those in BETA are only a VERY small portion of the potential customers.

    FACT if you truly run a BETA to test it and make sure potential customers are HAPPY,they you would want ALL potential customers to be happy,yes or no,i think YES.If this site sat down with Zenimax and asked them if they want all their customers to be happy,they would say YES, and that is FACT.

    Ok so then why always the hiding show and secrets,you don't really want your game critiqued,you don't really want all potential customers to have a say or want that game to be accepted by all?It sure appears  like they just want secrets and no changes in Beta,just keep the press rolling and any favorable misleading information would be nice as well.

    You are not going to run a business and make decent profits catering to JUST the fanbois who might pre-order on a whim.

    Archeage ran 2 years of Beta,Aion ran a lengthy Beta with changes,you only achieve that type of lengthy Beta by offering the game news to people and take feedback.You do NOT achieve changes and make a game better by keeping secrets then all a sudden announce a release date and pre orders get preferential treatment.Most likely the reason success has not been favorable for the majority of MMORPG's the last 8 years.

    Vet the news out there,pay attention to what people are discussing and talking about your game,MAKE CHANGES ,make your game fun and acceptible,quit hiding behind a veil,it serves no purpose at all,UNLESS you are hiding something.

    NOBODY on this planet is going to steal your ideas and make a game in 4 months lmao,be serious.SOE for example saw the trend on kick starters and Voxels but that was 2 years ago,it took them 18 months to decide on a redirection of their EQNExt and even the Voxels idea is still not near launch,so more than 2 years after they sniffed wind of the idea.


    Samoan Diamond

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon

    Amazing the lengths people will go to in order to try to make ESO and Zenimax/Bethesda look like they are hiding something! LOL

     

    All games in closed beta have NDA. The game is still a ways away from launch. By March I guarantee much of the NDA if not all of it will be lifted. 

    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY HERE.

     

    image

  • flguy147flguy147 orlando, FLPosts: 374Member
    Because like they have said in some interviews, they want players to actually play the game and experience it live for the first time.  The last thing I want to do before a game is released is  know all the details of it and watch somebody play it on twitch or whatever for hours.  I don't want to see the whole game before I get to play it.  That is like somebody telling you the whole movie and ending before you go watch it.  It totally affects the experience imo.   Sure I want to know the basics of it and I know that much of ESO but that is all I want to know.   That is my personal thoughts, nobody elses.  If I designed a game I would not want the whole gaming community to know too much about the game before it is released.  Totally spoils it.
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    Carbine dropped the NDA for Wildstar for early levels and has had a bunch of other previews for the game.

    TESO has shown ....pencil sketches of armor.


    When an MMO is as tight lipped about everything just a couple months from release its easy to tell that are trying to hide something.

    It shows that they have no confidence in their product.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Carbine dropped the NDA for Wildstar for early levels and has had a bunch of other previews for the game.

    TESO has shown ....pencil sketches of armor.


    When an MMO is as tight lipped about everything just a couple months from release its easy to tell that are trying to hide something.

    It shows that they have no confidence in their product.

    Or it shows that they have so much confidence in their product that they don't feel the need to hype it up through beta marketing.

    You make me like charity

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,414Member Uncommon
    IIRC, ESO was supposed to be out already.  It got bounced back to April, and yet it is still under NDA.   If they are still heavilly changing systems, that's a wise move.  IF they are still heavilly changing systems this close to release, it's probably a bad thing though.  

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by nilden
    Not letting people share information about the beta says way more than anyone who breaks the NDA could.

    This, precisely this.

    When companies have a success on their hands, they lift the NDA. TESO devs know their game is in trouble, well, most veteran gamers know. I wonder if they'll release it or if they'll reboot it like FFXIV did, before failing, for their sake. I want them to succeed, don't get me wrong, I just don't see it happening. GW2 removed the NDA 6 months before release. Wildstar already lifted it partially for press. Failures keep it until open beta, SWTOR, removed 1 month before release, for example. WAR, same thing. You can look up plenty of other games, the trend is obvious. Games with NDAs in beta fail.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by squalleonaha

    in my life time experience. all game game that have NDA usu8ally trying to scam player, they scare to lets people know clearly about their games that why they using NDA

    FF14 was an example.

    they only allow nice thing like screenshot,wallpaper and some movie-making video clip.

    I don't see how it's "a scam"

    So they are scamming you into not using good judgment and  buying something you dont' feel comfortable buying unless you've tried it?

    That when the launch quickly approaches you will have to buy it even though you dont' know anything about it?

    Resistance is futile huh? image

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    NDAs are more designed to cater to gaming press and give them exclusives (so developers tend to write more favorable previews) than to actually protect consumers from getting a wrong impression of the game from information leaked by testers.

    I personally think NDAs are silly, but they still exist in most MMOs so complaining TESO has one is silly.  That's changing with Kickstarter since it looks bad trying to force NDAs on people who helped fund your game and you are under no publisher obligations, but you can still expect MMOs from major development studios to be under NDAs.

    image

    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    NDAs are more designed to cater to gaming press and give them exclusives (so developers tend to write more favorable previews) than to actually protect consumers from getting a wrong impression of the game from information leaked by testers.

    I personally think NDAs are silly, but they still exist in most MMOs so complaining TESO has one is silly.  That's changing with Kickstarter since it looks bad trying to force NDAs on people who helped fund your game and you are under no publisher obligations, but you can still expect MMOs from major development studios to be under NDAs.

    We are also free to think the game sucks because they have an NDA and not bother playing it. Sure hope that press exclusivity is worth it for them because a lot of veteran gamers stay away from NDA games.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 617Member Uncommon

    Remember when TOR stayed under NDA until AFTER release?

     

    Makes me go Humm...

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Carbine dropped the NDA for Wildstar for early levels and has had a bunch of other previews for the game.

    TESO has shown ....pencil sketches of armor.


    When an MMO is as tight lipped about everything just a couple months from release its easy to tell that are trying to hide something.

    It shows that they have no confidence in their product.

    Or it shows that they have so much confidence in their product that they don't feel the need to hype it up through beta marketing.

     Did you really just attempt to say that they are not trying to hype up TESO?!?

    Podcasts, youtube channel, Facebook page, Tweeter, massive amounts of interviews on every gaming site, having every TES wiki and fan site update their 2nd age lore with TESO story information........keep reaching buddy.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

    Pin me, pay me.

    Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,969Member Uncommon
    Lets take a guess and assume it is fact. That's the proper way to live life.
  • PsychoPigeonPsychoPigeon UnkownPosts: 565Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

    Pin me, pay me.

    Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

    Because money doesn't affect people in 'non' capitalist countries?

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

    Pin me, pay me.

    Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

    Because money doesn't affect people in 'non' capitalist countries?

    People of non-capitalist countries are going to have much more value in humanitarian values such as keeping their word. People from capitalist countries worship money as a religion. They never have enough, always want more of everything. Religion is expansion. Since capitalism acts as a religion, capitalists only seek to expand. Be it their world views, their critiques, their power, it doesn't matter so long as they can spread their self ego around. So when the novelty effect wears off, they become unpredictable, without mentionning the fact that for many people it is actually profitable to break the NDA. Capitalists need to have something to lose if you want them to be trustworthy... beta testers have nothing to lose, especially if the game sucks anyways. Give them money, which is power to them, and breaking the NDA will suddenly become much less tempting.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

    Pin me, pay me.

    Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

    I don't think you thought that through.

    Them paying you has nothing to do with the agreement because you already know you are not going to get paid. There are many instances in life where you "wont' get paid" but you are expected to keep your side of the deal.

    I have no problem with testers getting paid and I also have no problem with people being smart enough to know that they are incapable of doing the task at hand unless they get paid and therefore "bow out".

    So why would you have someone "pin you" if you know you won't get paid?

    Also, the general thrust of these agreements is that fans who are interested want these games to be as "good" as they can be.

    However, I also know (read: witnessed - especially in the last ESO beta) that some beta testers just have no clue on what an actual beta is and think that they are just there to have a good time. Sometimes the level of "stupid" is astounding. Which is a shame.

    I have also witnessed designers removing things/changing things that, if the gamer populace found out they would cry and scream and bring the genre down another notch. Even though there might be good reasons to do it.

    In the LOTRO closed betas the vendors, trainers were all outside. And it was great, Bree felt like a real city, there was life, people interacted and, as I said,  it was great. But it was only great for those who had decent machines because many people had frame rate issues.

    so into the buildings everyone went until much later in the game's cycle when they brought more out in the open.

    It's a pretty simple concept: someone makes you an offer, you agree or don't agree and then move on from there.

    but alas some just can't handle it.

    (edit: keep in mind that I have Huge positive as well as heavy criticisms about ESO and when the time comes I will express those opinions)

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Can you name an mmo that didn't have it's beta under NDA at some point ?

    Trove - zero nda, since alpha 0.0.0.

    Actually they named the game and 2 days later released it to public alpha testers with no nda.

     

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

     

    Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

    it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

    They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

    "Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

    "ok cool, thanks for your interest".

    or

    "Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

     

    But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

     

     

    Pin me, pay me.

    Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

    I don't think you thought that through.

    Them paying you has nothing to do with the agreement because you already know you are not going to get paid. There are many instances in life where you "wont' get paid" but you are expected to keep your side of the deal.

    I have no problem with testers getting paid and I also have no problem with people being smart enough to know that they are incapable of doing the task at hand unless they get paid and therefore "bow out".

    So why would you have someone "pin you" if you know you won't get paid?

    Also, the general thrust of these agreements is that fans who are interested want these games to be as "good" as they can be.

    However, I also know (read: witnessed - especially in the last ESO beta) that some beta testers just have no clue on what an actual beta is and think that they are just there to have a good time. Sometimes the level of "stupid" is astounding. Which is a shame.

    I have also witnessed designers removing things/changing things that, if the gamer populace found out they would cry and scream and bring the genre down another notch. Even though there might be good reasons to do it.

    In the LOTRO closed betas the vendors, trainers were all outside. And it was great, Bree felt like a real city, there was life, people interacted and, as I said,  it was great. But it was only great for those who had decent machines because many people had frame rate issues.

    so into the buildings everyone went until much later in the game's cycle when they brought more out in the open.

    It's a pretty simple concept: someone makes you an offer, you agree or don't agree and then move on from there.

    but alas some just can't handle it.

    Sounds like poor man thinking. Everything is a business, act accordingly, do everything for you and you only, screw the others. Poor people exist because they are easily dominated.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
     

    Sounds like poor man thinking. Everything is a business, act accordingly, do everything for you and you only, screw the others. Poor people exist because they are easily dominated.

     

    But again "you know you are not going to get paid therefore there is no reason to enter in the agreement".

    If you truly want to think that "everything you do is about money then "everything you do will be and should be about money".

    You wouldn't be beta testing video games or even wasting your time as, remember, you don't want to be a 'poor man' you want to be a rich man, so you will maximize your income opportunities at every chance you can find.

    Remember, we are talking about the idea of "your word". If you word is there for you to make money then you will only be giving your word in instances where you can make money. That's a "commodity" that you are selling.

    Additionally, if we follow your line of thinking, you really aren't very business smart because, per the topic of discussion, you are making the exact amount of money whether you keep the nda or break the nda.

    Which again is stupid because, as you infer, you want to maximize cashflow at all times and not waste your time with endeavors that are not adding to your bottom line.

     

This discussion has been closed.