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[Editorial] World of Warcraft: WoW Clone - You Say That Like It's a Bad Thing

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  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by RajCaj

     (UO had up to 200k subs & EQ had up to 1 million.....imagine if you could get 10+ million paying $15 a month)

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    EQ was the leading mmo before WOW but it never had up to a million subs, the game peaked at around 500k which was a vast number in those days.

  • RajCajRajCaj Lafayette, LAPosts: 693Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Not bad article. The term WoW Clone bothers me since, obviously its a system/format that blizzard didn't even begin. It has barely any elements that are unique only to their game, yet people preach things as being a 'clone'.  To me, a clone is something that bluntly takes ALL elements of a game from its art style, its gameplay, and even its lore to mimic the other game in every possible way.

     IMO, Blizard DID create something new.  How else do you go from EQ topping out at 1 million subs, to WOW getting 8+ million right out the gate?  Their IP did help them, but for the most part, they intentionally removed parts of MMO gaming that turned many of the folks that tried n' dumped UO & EQ.  I remember seeing an interview from one of the Blizzard guys that worked on WOW where he said their express intent was to go out and remove the time sinks, remove the harsh pentalties, make things more user friendly....remove all of those "barriers to entry".

    In addition, they took much of the content creation out of the hands of the players, and put it on the shoulders of the developers.  UO endgame was MOSTLY player driven, and while EQ was more similar to what ended up being WOW, it wasn't nearly as "streamlined" as what Blizzard put out.

    In the end, lets look at GW2 which got a lot more credit then it should. Gw2 actually did NOT change much at all. Its main deal is rather then changing the formula, it disguises it as other elements. Quests are more static 'events' that are quite predictable to take part in. Combat is essencially the old tab target system just with a rather slippery dodge deal, over-all weakening its combat in attempts to make it feel 'different and half assing the change. Its only real changes being "No trinity" and "Lack of end game" for the most part flopped, though I don't think its all bad. Its attempting to do new thing, which is something most MMos try to do to spice thing up. Sure the trinity deal was a horrible mess, but the lack of end game could possibly keep some players happy, so long as they focus on giving lots of content to keep them busy/distracted.

     Just how GW2 put a half ass'd gimmick in to differentiate themselves from WOW, yet leverage all the similarities to appeal to the same crowd, Aion did the same with wings, SW:TOR did the same with the Starwars IP, and the same with Rift and their dynamic open world raids.

    Most folks playing these games for the first time have been playing WOW for several years, and they quickly see that they are running the same kill / delivery quest, and on the same gear grind they left in WOW....but they have to start all over again, and ultimately end up going back because they are more established there.

    With the "Wow clone" thrown about so haphazardly, it always bothers me. If you have that feeling about every Mmo, then a vast majority games of any genre you best be calling  say "Doom Clone" for FPS or "Devil May Cry" clone for action games like God of War.  Call that RPG you played a "Dungeons and Dragons" Clone while you are at it. Genre games WILL be similiar, they exist because they are enjoyable and work. Its best to look at things more broadly then claiming anything that uses a similiar format as a clone.

    Fair point, but for those reasons I explained above, I think WOW is infact a different game than Ultima Online, and even Everquest.  They are similar in very fundamental ways, but in terms of player roles, economy creation, content creation, itemization, PVP, & team play.....they are all VERY different.

     
    Now if you excuse me, I need to head out in my Ford Clone car so I can stop at my Clone Burger fast food resteraunt before I go out to the clone bar with my friends tonight.
     

     

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    WoW picked all the good stuff that was known back then, improved it and added some new ideas. That's what made it a success... it improved things!

    Since then alot of games tried to do the same but none really managed the improving-part, and that's why none of these is as big of a success as the developers or the anticipants hoped for.

    Trying too do something totally new is basically impossible, as all things have allready been there in soome way or the other, so the task is to take a working system, tweak and improve it. Wildstar will tell if this works out.

    For WoW itself... it managed to wreck itself by constantly dumbing it down more and more. They should've stopped changing the systems with BC.

  • drakolasdrakolas Plymouth, MNPosts: 35Member Uncommon
    The problem with making a WoW clone is that it's very unlikely they will do WoW better than Blizzard. There is a certain fluidity to WoW combat that most MMOs have failed to match and usually the content doesn't meet the same standards either.
  • bbethelbbethel las vegas, NVPosts: 199Member
    My Problem with a game that is a WoW clone is that I left WoW because I did not want to play that game any more. Then a new game comes out and its just like or very similar to WoW. Why do I want to play a game that is just like the game I quit?
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Indianapolis, INPosts: 37Member

    When people say "WoW clone" they are usually talking about one of three things:

     

    1. Blocky, low-res, cartoony models for both characters and game objects

     

    2. Push-button combat that includes a gazillion powers on multiple tray rows

     

    3. NPCs that dispense "Go here, kill 10, come back, claim reward" type quests by the truckload

     

    A true WoW clone has the trifecta. Games like Allods Online are true WoW clones. Most other games people call WoW clones only have two of the three. [mod edit]

     

    WoW's blowout success and domination of the market has caused the genre to be set back almost a decade from where it ought to be. All of the game development taking place has been a variation on one of two themes: "Let's do what WoW is doing, except (insert thing)" or "Let's do what WoW is doing, only better." No one is saying "Screw WoW, let's do our own thing." Creativity and vision, remember those? It's impossible to have with the millstone of WoW's success hanging around the neck of the developers. Until they can get free of that millstone, no one is going to get off the bottom of the ocean.

     
  • flguy147flguy147 orlando, FLPosts: 375Member Uncommon
    People do it all the time.  Why does Madden every single year for many many years keep selling.   Because people like it, you do the same thing in the Madden game the year before and the year before but its a billion dollar franchise.  Its because people enjoy it, if i enjoy something i dont want it to change too much.
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    Another thing to consider is that Blizzard accidentally created the greatest form of vendor lock-in that video games have ever seen.  New people joined WoW because that's what their friends were playing.  Old people didn't leave WoW because they didn't want to leave their friends.  WoW is more like Facebook in that even though people complain about it sometimes, you can't easily switch to another social network unless most of your contacts do as well.

    The fact that games today can't even find a large audience even when it's offered for "free" should tell you just how bad the industry is doing for all but a few players.

    You make me like charity

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by RajCaj

     IMO, Blizard DID create something new.  How else do you go from EQ topping out at 1 million subs, to WOW getting 8+ million right out the gate?  Their IP did help them, but for the most part, they intentionally removed parts of MMO gaming that turned many of the folks that tried n' dumped UO & EQ.  I remember seeing an interview from one of the Blizzard guys that worked on WOW where he said their express intent was to go out and remove the time sinks, remove the harsh pentalties, make things more user friendly....remove all of those "barriers to entry".

    WOW didnt have 8 million out of the gate but it did grow to that

    in leaps and bounds that were unprecented in mmos

     

    first day WOW sales  (link fixed)
    https://web.archive.org/web/20060216205501/http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft/569888p1.html

    April 2005, WOW claimed 1.5 mill
    http://www.gamershell.com/companies/blizzard_entertainment/219363.html

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/World-of-Warcraft-1-5-million-subscribers-1549.shtml


    June 2005, 2 million
    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=5696#.UJEWi4aM-yo

    July 2005, WOW claimed 1.5 mill  in Asia contrast to 2mill US/EU

    Blizzard's China Success Spawns 3.5 Million WoW Userbase July 21, 2005

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=5989

     

    there are many reasons for success for WOW

    among them is Blizzard, as a game company, already had millions of fans

    2002 article:  Of Orcs and millionaires

    http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon

    Wow discarded systems from previous games that didn't work well, and tuned the working parts well enough to essentially define how they worked (in all new titles) for the next decade.

    The next company to sit down and really rethink each and every system going into their game, including rethinking Blizzard's answers...at least escapes the sea of waiting critics. Tell them "this is how we want it, and this is why". Stand up to the closet game designers who want to turn the clock backward, and make the future (not the past).

  • HeraseHerase LondonPosts: 370Member Uncommon

    Think someone made a good point, between WoW clone and Theme park clone. Yea there are games that have outright copied Wow, but when people call something a Wow clone and i look at it, and it has one or two features in common, but has so many things that make it it's own game (more so games coming out this year). I think "really?"  If they said "Theme park clone", then ill be like, yeah that's understandable. They've taken the themepark idea and added their own unique flavor to it. Same thing Wow did all thos many years ago, but because they made a sucesses off these theme park ideas people seem to think these ideas are origanaly created by blizzard and anything that has them is a Wow clone.

     

    Another thing i've noticed is people scream "We want something new" but then players will ignore all these features that are new or a new twist on some old ideas. You could have an in-depth crafting system, 600 ways to level and many cool side features to progress your toon at endgame, but people will ignore it and play it has if it's Wow, zerging to max level, then jump on the forums later and say "it's a Wow clone", without ever trying all the features that make it it's own game. 

     

    Overall yes it's a bad thing, I think the term just needs to die out, as many games coming bring much more to the table than Wow can offer right now and i think were going to get a lot more in the upcoming years. Don't think they will hit the same sub levels Wow did, because that was  one time thing and won't happen for a long long time and i think that's another thing players need to realize, there expecting games to have the same level of succeses, if it doesn't it's a failed clone 

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by flguy147

    Its almost impossible to have a MMO with out similar features as other MMOs such as WOW.  Can you make a football game without having first downs and passing?  Hard to make a FPS without guns and running through a map shooting people.  If you change it too much it will not be a MMO anymore.  When i played AOC if felt nothing at all similar to WOW.  To me it was completely different eventhough it had a lot of the same features.  Dungeons actually felt like dungeons in the game for example.  

    Even Skyrim has a ton of the same exact features as MMOs but everybody holds up so high.  When you do the main storylines of guilds and the main storyline you have to go do this quest before you do the next.  You have side quests too just like MMOs.  Crafting isnt anything new in Skyrim vs other MMOs.  The quests you basically go kill mobs or collect an item most of the time just like any MMO.  The thing Skyrim does is make it fun on how they implement.  

    Really?  Let's see now, just a few off the top of my head:

    1) Housing, personal and guild halls.

    2) PVP based around territory control. (EVE, L1/L2, Shadowbane)

    3) Wide variety of races/classes with racial specific traits (EQ1, EQ2, DAOC)

    4) Randomized stats on drops, with world drops being some of the best gear in the game (AC, L1, L2 others)

    5) Armor designed to be stronger against some attack types, neutral to others, and appreciable weaker to others. (DAOC)

    6)  Crafting with real meaning, and impact on the world economy.  (SWG, DAOC, many others)

    7) I could go on for hours, there's so many optional designs out there, many that have yet to be thought of or fully fleshed out, but no, Dev's pretty much stick with safe mode.

    If you had played titles such as UO, AC1, DAOC, Shadowbane, L1, L2, FFXI, EVE and some others you'd see MMO's didn't have to follow the EQ1/WOW/standard themepark designs so closely, and there's some very real differences in these games that WOW and the many games that follow it have largely discarded.

    No one who ever played EVE thought to themselves, this sure feels like a WOW clone.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon

    The Sims 2 is still the best selling game of all time with over 20 million copies, The Sims is #2 with 16 million.

    Doesn't this mean that every game should be more like them? No? Right!

    Why the hell does the MMO genre have to be different than every single other market on the planet? I cant think of one that feels it must be more and more like the best selling whatever in their markets. There is just so much dup dup ditty day going on due to corporations focused on quick profit and a few designers that just plain cant come up with any new ideas.

    To pull a Batman quote "This town needs an enema", only its the genre that needs it.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    This is an atrocious article because it doesnt even understand what "WoW clone" even means.

     

    No one at WoW's release ever called WoW an "EQ clone".  In fact, the only people that utter such idiocy are fans of a game that is a WoW clone that are trying to defend it.

     

    The big difference is this:  WoW set out to improve upon the MMORPG genre.  Games like Rift dont set out to improve the genre, they set out to improve WoW.

     

    And the problem is, the WoW clones all fail in some key areas.  And in some ways WoW itself fails in these same ways now, though some of it is unavoidable due to age.

    1.  The journey is as important as the destination.  The average player took several months to max level in WoW, as opposed to several weeks in all of its clone

    2.  Linearity is bad.  WoW was far from linear, and also you couldnt see everything on one, or even two, characters.  Now everyone is funneled through the same zone progression and when time comes to roll an alt, youve already seen it all

    3.  Some things are worth working for.  It seems odd to say this about WoW, but there was a time when getting even your first mount was a big deal.  And an epic mount was a huge accomplishment.  Nowadays most games (WoW included) hand you everything, or place it behind a boring repetition grind, which leads me to

    4. Copy the good parts, not the bad parts.  Reputation grinds, token grinds, linear dungeons, raid tiers that obsolete last month's gear, daily quests.  This isnt the stuff that made WoW popular.  Yet most WoW clones seem to think so.

    And of course, WoW's combat is better than any other GCD/rotation based game.  Its smooth and its classes are well developed.  Its easy to learn but difficult to master.

    If people had been busy copying the good parts of WoW and ignored the bad parts, WoW clone wouldnt be so derogatory.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by flguy147

    Its almost impossible to have a MMO with out similar features as other MMOs such as WOW.  Can you make a football game without having first downs and passing?  Hard to make a FPS without guns and running through a map shooting people.  If you change it too much it will not be a MMO anymore.  When i played AOC if felt nothing at all similar to WOW.  To me it was completely different eventhough it had a lot of the same features.  Dungeons actually felt like dungeons in the game for example.  

    Even Skyrim has a ton of the same exact features as MMOs but everybody holds up so high.  When you do the main storylines of guilds and the main storyline you have to go do this quest before you do the next.  You have side quests too just like MMOs.  Crafting isnt anything new in Skyrim vs other MMOs.  The quests you basically go kill mobs or collect an item most of the time just like any MMO.  The thing Skyrim does is make it fun on how they implement.  

    Really?  Let's see now, just a few off the top of my head:

    1) Housing, personal and guild halls.

    2) PVP based around territory control. (EVE, L1/L2, Shadowbane)

    3) Wide variety of races/classes with racial specific traits (EQ1, EQ2, DAOC)

    4) Randomized stats on drops, with world drops being some of the best gear in the game (AC, L1, L2 others)

    5) Armor designed to be stronger against some attack types, neutral to others, and appreciable weaker to others. (DAOC)

    6)  Crafting with real meaning, and impact on the world economy.  (SWG, DAOC, many others)

    7) I could go on for hours, there's so many optional designs out there, many that have yet to be thought of or fully fleshed out, but no, Dev's pretty much stick with safe mode.

     

     

     

    WoW has contained or flirted with most of these, and it definitely contains number 3.  The vast majority of class specs play very differently from each other so WoW really has around 30 classes and is up to 13 races

  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    WOW is a great game for what it is, but the success of WOW has been detrimental to the MMORPG world.

    Just look at the games since the release of WOW. Every game has been a WOW clone, Stripped of any player creativity with emphasis on player hand holding. Look, I'm not saying WOW is a bad game, it is very polished and plays like it, but the MMORPG world has been suffering since its release and its success is at fault.

    WOW clones are terrible. The genre called for it when WOW was released, but it doesn't need these types of MMORPG's anymore. WOW has filled that role and then some. Any release following in that footstep is fail and fail some more. Wildstar will fail, it will fail so damn hard that I can't wait to say, "I told you". I honestly am looking forward to Wildstar's release so much, because I feel that Wildstar is such a WOW clone, that it's fail will knock some sense into the MMORPG developers world.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by syriinx

    2.  Linearity is bad.  WoW was far from linear, and also you couldnt see everything on one, or even two, characters.  Now everyone is funneled through the same zone progression and when time comes to roll an alt, youve already seen it all

    WOW did a great job of this but EQ1 was admirable too - there were 8 different starting areas for EQ at launch

    DAOC only had 3 realms that still gave enough variety for alts

  • FuriantFuriant Baltimore, MDPosts: 17Member
    At this point I would pay any subscription fee for a clone of WoW Vanilla. I miss it more than I've enjoyed any game in the past 6 years.
  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by syriinx

    2.  Linearity is bad.  WoW was far from linear, and also you couldnt see everything on one, or even two, characters.  Now everyone is funneled through the same zone progression and when time comes to roll an alt, youve already seen it all

    WOW did a great job of this but EQ1 was admirable too - there were 8 different starting areas for EQ at launch

    DAOC only had 3 realms that still gave enough variety for alts

    Yes, most of my list applies to WoW and the games that preceded but not what came after

  • gunmanvladgunmanvlad BucharestPosts: 250Member Uncommon

    I think WoW was successful because it correctly captured the essence of a very fun lore setting (Warcraft), and it made things both easy for new players and hard for veterans.

     

    The problem I see with most MMOs is that they simply do not usually have the same IP behind them. SWTOR had the IP, got the biiiiig numbers at the start...but the game was not an MMO, so it failed medium/long term. Games like GW2 simply did not have the IP, and others like TSW failed a bit in both IP and gameplay (I still find TSW the most mind-blowingly-epic story-based MMO out there, but stopped after finishing the quests...).

     

    A WOW clone needs to have a BIG IP and a GREAT gameplay (not only fighting, but having a well rounded system). ESO has some potential to be a true modern WoW-clone, same with EQN...Wildstar less so imo (from this perspective).

     

    Lets be fair tho: MMO players are some of the biggest whiners out there! They will trash every goddamned game/story/word/world, usually just to justify their miserable existence of a 30-year-old who realises he's mostly unemployed and has no real future, yet tries to find some meaning in smashing pixels 10 hours a day for years on end...

     

     

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gunmanvlad

    I think WoW was successful because it correctly captured the essence of a very fun lore setting (Warcraft), and it made things both easy for new players and hard for veterans.

     

    The problem I see with most MMOs is that they simply do not usually have the same IP behind them. SWTOR had the IP, got the biiiiig numbers at the start...but the game was not an MMO, so it failed medium/long term. Games like GW2 simply did not have the IP, and others like TSW failed a bit in both IP and gameplay (I still find TSW the most mind-blowingly-epic story-based MMO out there, but stopped after finishing the quests...).

     

    A WOW clone needs to have a BIG IP and a GREAT gameplay (not only fighting, but having a well rounded system). ESO has some potential to be a true modern WoW-clone, same with EQN...Wildstar less so imo (from this perspective).

     

    Lets be fair tho: MMO players are some of the biggest whiners out there! They will trash every goddamned game/story/word/world, usually just to justify their miserable existence of a 30-year-old who realises he's mostly unemployed and has no real future, yet tries to find some meaning in smashing pixels 10 hours a day for years on end...

     

     

    a game does NOT need a big IP.  Well, to put up WoW numbers it does.  But the other two games to have 500k maintained subs in the west are both original IPs, EQ and EvE.

     

    The game world and lore certainly matters though, which really hurts a lot of games like Rift.

  • muppetpilotmuppetpilot Fort Wayne, INPosts: 163Member Uncommon

    I think that many times, when the term "WoW Clone" is used in derogatory fashion or when hatred is spit at Blizzard or WoW, it generally comes from jealousy.  I would like all of the anti-WoW fanbois to name one, just ONE, mmo that has even sniffed the success that WoW has had.  Can't help but notice the absolute silence when that question is asked.

    And believe me, I am no WoW fanboi.  The game is a good one but it has its warts, just like any other video game, mmo or otherwise.  That being said, though, it has done a sensational job of not only hanging on to its existing players but also bringing new ones into the fold, especially with its expansions; WoD will be no different.  I would expect that once this new expansion launches, WoW will probably surpass ten million subscribers again.

    I think that most of the WoW haters wish their game was a "WoW Clone" in terms of playability, ease of UI control, flow of combat, stability of economy, size of player base, and responsiveness.  Again, much of the hatred simply comes from jealousy.  How many so-called "WoW killers" have we seen over the past several years?  Do a little research and you'll find that almost all of those games are f2p now. 

    "Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune

  • RajCajRajCaj Lafayette, LAPosts: 693Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Consensus

    I haven't played very much UO or WoW, but in my small experience the two are nothing alike really. I can't see how WoW could have built on ideas in UO.

    Sure "WoW clone" is a compliment if you like WoW, or judge games purely on their success, but personally I do neither. And its not so much an insult as a description of a genre of mmorpg's. Since a huge proportion of mmorpg's have near identicle gameplay to WoW, such a term is useful to those who did not enjoy WoW.

    The term mmorpg has become a dirty word that some developers avoid to escape wrong assumptions being made about their games. to the vast majority who don't play many mmo's the term mmorpg literally means "WoW with different graphics".

    Fair assessment, and I have played both UO & WOW extensively and I can confirm that they are indeed nothing alike. (atleast not the version of UO that existed during it's "hay-day")

     

    The similarities that exist are only limited to the general fantasy setting, and your avatar can swing weapons, or wield magic, to go out adventuring.

     

    Outside of that, they couldn't be more different...considering they are in the same genere of games.

     

    I think you had a bunch of AAA studio heads that saw the massive success Blizzard had in the MMO space, and wanted in on the action.  With the kind of money they had to invest in their attempt to upseat WOW, they played it safe by keeping the game as familiar as possible (as to not alienate this massive social / casual playerbase, with a few gimmicks & feature changes in a thinly veiled effort to differentiate themselves.

     

    I think they figured that keeping the game similar would serve as a easy & painless transition to THEIR game, given how people typically reject change.

     

    That said, I don't think they really understood the dynamics of how things were playing out for folks that have been playing WOW for a long time, and were looking for a change.   When those 4-5+ year vets left WOW to try the latest "clone", those folks carried their fatigue with WOW's brand of MMO gaming with them, and the burn-out timer never reset when they got into the new game, beause they were so darned similar.  Fast forward 1 month, after all the novelty of the cheap gimmicks wore off (wings, light sabers, open world public events) most of the folks that migrated from WOW ended up going back.

     

    Anyway, I agree with you in that the term is useful when discussing games in the MMO space, in general terms.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Furiant
    At this point I would pay any subscription fee for a clone of WoW Vanilla. I miss it more than I've enjoyed any game in the past 6 years.

    Yea.  Wait until people start telling you to take off your rose colored glasses.  Or, my personal favorite, "if you like wow (eq) so much, why dont you go play it!".  Etc, etc.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Wow discarded systems from previous games that didn't work well, and tuned the working parts well enough to essentially define how they worked (in all new titles) for the next decade.

    Uh... not really. They discarded most of the complicated features, whether they worked well or not (like player housing), and released a version of EverQuest, with both the best and worst parts removed.

    WoW's design is not noteworthy, it's marketing was.

     

    Originally posted by Jafotron

    Think someone made a good point, between WoW clone and Theme park clone. Yea there are games that have outright copied Wow, but when people call something a Wow clone and i look at it, and it has one or two features in common, but has so many things that make it it's own game

    Seriously? What AAA MMORPG in the last 8 years would you say only had one or two features in common with WoW? The only one I can think of is Vanguard, and no one accused it of being a WoW clone.

    Maybe you never played pre WoW MMOs, so you aren't aware just how radically different MMOs used to be from one another, and see the tiny insignificant differences as bigger than they are. GW2 is the only themepark I've played that I wouldn't call a WoW clone. Games like LotRO are just WoW with different art styles and one or two gimmicks.
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