Originally posted by Fendel84M They do a lot of their own testing. Us beta testers are largely just stress testing. This phenomenon of large public beta tests is a rather new concept. Even WoW had a pretty small beta test and no open beta to speak of. I don't know anyone who was in EQ2 beta. They don't need big betas as much as you think they do.
WoW had a massive open beta that lasted for like 2 or so months.. and a rather large closed beta for at least 18 months before that, TESO seems to be ignoring any real feedback and just doing their own thing.. i wouldnt expect too much from the game at release
WoW also had one of the worst game launches in MMO history if you were actually there... Servers down for almost a week or two. Good thing they had that 2 month beta right? I take betas for what they are, a beta. Regardless of what people say whether they think its the final product or not, I form my own judgments and dont listen to reviews/rants of ppl complaining as should others. People rely on other ppls opinions way too much. Way too much. Look at game chat nowadays, you see tons and tons of ppl asking "Whats the best class" Whats the best healer" "whats the best tank" "Is this game fun" etc etc etc. People put so much stock in what others say/think that theyre cheating themselves of possibly finding something they truly like rather then what others like.
who said anything about game launches being good or bad and how is comparing a game releaing 9 years ago when the MMO market was just coming into play and having no idea what they would expect from open beta being fairly tame to the onslauight that happened when the game went live... and yes i was there i was unfortunatly on blackrock none the less and got my fair share of free time added to my account just like everyone else.
my point of saying i wouldnt expect much from the game is basically in my opinion and yes this is my opinion, but the game has little to nothing to offer, feels clunky and wrong and just doesnt seem like 12 weeks is long enough and seems like another game being forced out the door by the publishers before the decvelopment studio has it right, just dont see a bright future ahead and that has nothing todo with launch week issues
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer Pretty sure this is a fanboi thread, and I'll gladly answer : Nobody cares. The only reason this game will even be able to break sale records is because it's called Elder Scrolls. Let's have a discussion 12 weeks after release to see how many are actually left playing. By the time TESO releases, D3's expansion Reapers of Soul will be out and I got to admit, the game will kick some serious butt and it's about time Blizzard woke the hell up. TESO is over hyped, end of story.
Hilarious. Let's discuss how much of a disappointment Diablo 3 was in comparison to the previous installments of it. Now that's a game that was overhyped. Hah!
Originally posted by Fearum I hope the PvP is good. I'm sure the PvE will be good with a good story, not the main attraction here for me though but I do like a game with a good story. Oh yeah and the crafting, interested in how this will play out seeing as they are tight lipped on it still.
Zerging is the way to go in this kind of PvP setup... I personally hate zerging... Daoc was awesome PvP for the 8 mans we ran, which if any good allowed you to cc dozens of players and kill them one by one... GW2 with much less cc removed this option and all there was left was the zerg... Sadly ESO will go the same way...
GW2 learned me that challenging Pvp in an instance is much more fun then open world Zerging
This is what im afraid of, I didnt play DaoC so i dont know how it was. but sadly i wasted money on GW2 and experienced some of the worst zerging pvp ever. I hope it isnt like that in this game, and honestly i wont spend money on it till i find out for sure.
personally i like open world pvp and fighting over hunting spots and quest and such, but the whole run around in a zerg flipping castles/towers/check points or what ever is not my cup of tea.
Originally posted by Fearum I hope the PvP is good. I'm sure the PvE will be good with a good story, not the main attraction here for me though but I do like a game with a good story. Oh yeah and the crafting, interested in how this will play out seeing as they are tight lipped on it still.
Zerging is the way to go in this kind of PvP setup... I personally hate zerging... Daoc was awesome PvP for the 8 mans we ran, which if any good allowed you to cc dozens of players and kill them one by one... GW2 with much less cc removed this option and all there was left was the zerg... Sadly ESO will go the same way...
GW2 learned me that challenging Pvp in an instance is much more fun then open world Zerging
This is what im afraid of, I didnt play DaoC so i dont know how it was. but sadly i wasted money on GW2 and experienced some of the worst zerging pvp ever. I hope it isnt like that in this game, and honestly i wont spend money on it till i find out for sure.
personally i like open world pvp and fighting over hunting spots and quest and such, but the whole run around in a zerg flipping castles/towers/check points or what ever is not my cup of tea.
You can't avoid zerging, even DAoC had it. The main difference between DAoC zerg and GW2 ones is that GW2 zerg exist mostly to farm karma.
ESO isn't about farming karma. It might turn into Alliance point farming depending on the implementation, but Cyrodiil also have dungeons and quests, so it's not all about taking and losing keeps and towers either.
Originally posted by Fendel84M They do a lot of their own testing. Us beta testers are largely just stress testing. This phenomenon of large public beta tests is a rather new concept. Even WoW had a pretty small beta test and no open beta to speak of. I don't know anyone who was in EQ2 beta. They don't need big betas as much as you think they do.
WoW had a massive open beta that lasted for like 2 or so months.. and a rather large closed beta for at least 18 months before that, TESO seems to be ignoring any real feedback and just doing their own thing.. i wouldnt expect too much from the game at release
WoW also had one of the worst game launches in MMO history if you were actually there... Servers down for almost a week or two. Good thing they had that 2 month beta right? I take betas for what they are, a beta. Regardless of what people say whether they think its the final product or not, I form my own judgments and dont listen to reviews/rants of ppl complaining as should others. People rely on other ppls opinions way too much. Way too much. Look at game chat nowadays, you see tons and tons of ppl asking "Whats the best class" Whats the best healer" "whats the best tank" "Is this game fun" etc etc etc. People put so much stock in what others say/think that theyre cheating themselves of possibly finding something they truly like rather then what others like.
who said anything about game launches being good or bad and how is comparing a game releaing 9 years ago when the MMO market was just coming into play and having no idea what they would expect from open beta being fairly tame to the onslauight that happened when the game went live... and yes i was there i was unfortunatly on blackrock none the less and got my fair share of free time added to my account just like everyone else.
my point of saying i wouldnt expect much from the game is basically in my opinion and yes this is my opinion, but the game has little to nothing to offer, feels clunky and wrong and just doesnt seem like 12 weeks is long enough and seems like another game being forced out the door by the publishers before the decvelopment studio has it right, just dont see a bright future ahead and that has nothing todo with launch week issues
Unless you've beta tested the game extensively(which I HIGHLY doubt) no one can say all that much about it because there hasnt been many betas nor much information about the game released. Right now its like were walking into it semi-blindly knowing some basic stuff about the game but not much in terms of depth. We know the basics - Levels, skill points, gear, etc, etc, etc. This is all pointed at your comment regarding them not taking player feedback. You do not know that for sure. If you do, then how? We havent seen much of the game, nor really played it so we dont know jack sh.. about it yet. Its all speculation right now.
Originally posted by Fendel84M They do a lot of their own testing. Us beta testers are largely just stress testing. This phenomenon of large public beta tests is a rather new concept. Even WoW had a pretty small beta test and no open beta to speak of. I don't know anyone who was in EQ2 beta. They don't need big betas as much as you think they do.
WoW had a massive open beta that lasted for like 2 or so months.. and a rather large closed beta for at least 18 months before that, TESO seems to be ignoring any real feedback and just doing their own thing.. i wouldnt expect too much from the game at release
WoW also had one of the worst game launches in MMO history if you were actually there... Servers down for almost a week or two. Good thing they had that 2 month beta right? I take betas for what they are, a beta. Regardless of what people say whether they think its the final product or not, I form my own judgments and dont listen to reviews/rants of ppl complaining as should others. People rely on other ppls opinions way too much. Way too much. Look at game chat nowadays, you see tons and tons of ppl asking "Whats the best class" Whats the best healer" "whats the best tank" "Is this game fun" etc etc etc. People put so much stock in what others say/think that theyre cheating themselves of possibly finding something they truly like rather then what others like.
who said anything about game launches being good or bad and how is comparing a game releaing 9 years ago when the MMO market was just coming into play and having no idea what they would expect from open beta being fairly tame to the onslauight that happened when the game went live... and yes i was there i was unfortunatly on blackrock none the less and got my fair share of free time added to my account just like everyone else.
my point of saying i wouldnt expect much from the game is basically in my opinion and yes this is my opinion, but the game has little to nothing to offer, feels clunky and wrong and just doesnt seem like 12 weeks is long enough and seems like another game being forced out the door by the publishers before the decvelopment studio has it right, just dont see a bright future ahead and that has nothing todo with launch week issues
Unless you've beta tested the game extensively(which I HIGHLY doubt) no one can say all that much about it because there hasnt been many betas nor much information about the game released. Right now its like were walking into it semi-blindly knowing some basic stuff about the game but not much in terms of depth. We know the basics - Levels, skill points, gear, etc, etc, etc. This is all pointed at your comment regarding them not taking player feedback. You do not know that for sure. If you do, then how? We havent seen much of the game, nor really played it so we dont know jack sh.. about it yet. Its all speculation right now.
Some people have beta tested it as extensively as they have been allowed. Thats another red flag. I think they have had 13 or 14 beta invites, most of those EXTREMELY limited in the number of people they invited. I have seen more than one less than five. Obviously the earlier the build the more lenient one is. But this last beta was the biggest one yet. At least in terms of numbers, and even that one was a small number in comparison to other games who have rolling betas. The obvious stuff is getting fixed. Obvious like, falling through the world, missing NPCs, missing or hashed video renderings etc.
So it really isnt 'test' its, find the obvious things like spelling errors and spots you still fall though the world or where you become glued to world objects and cant move. Or loading screens dont load or whatever other generic stuff that happens in video games and bring it to our attention. Other than crafting there doesnt seem to be any effort at all to change anything within the game itself. Now after the bad opinions from this past beta maybe they are doing something a little more drastic and maybe why there has been little to no news (other than announcing a hard release date). But thats just it. The comments in this forum and in beta forums were predominately negative. As in overwhelmingly negative. Yet the only official comments they have made since that beta was the release date. Nothing since, other than some generic PvP video and an explanation that created more questions and concerns than anything else.
Maybe theyre just oblivious (I doubt it) and they think this game is still all the rage, so theyre treating it like a forgone conclusion that it will be a massive success. I doubt theyre that deluded but who really knows.
Or maybe they have already put all their eggs into a basket and cant change now.
The announcement of the release date was a sever negative, and I think a lot of people who have played the betas would agree to that as well. because it puts the 'what you see is what you get' aspect of the game in hard focus.
Since they havent said "we have taken player concerns into account and many aspect have been addressed" or whatever marketing speak they want to use, then you can assume they havent done jack to the game since the last beta but fix the voice overs, or addressed holes in the world or sticking points. Certainly nothing substantial. if they had I am sure they would have said something.
At least comment on crafting. The one thing they have publicly acknowledged to some degree and have supposedly revamped completely. Since we havent heard anything we really dont know what they have done to it. I suspect it will come back as generic and one dimensional as the crafting in he other games they have produced. Which for many will be just another disappointment. But util we hear something official or see something I will temper that assumption. Theyre are already enough known things to be concerned about without worrying about stuff we arent sure about yet.
As far as people in other threads talking about it being a catch-22 and people getting tired of 'over hyping'. Straw man 101 there. if they are releasing ANYTHING then that is a red flag. There is an expectation of information concerning games, they have fallen far short and continue to get further behind expected information thresh holds.
What we know today 3 months from release is basically what we have known for over a year/ Other than some 'bad' stuff that we have come to realize about the game. Not a positive if you ask me. Has there been a SINGLE release of OFFICIAL information that has gotten people EXCITED? Just ONE. I would say no. We can debate the whole 'old school' RvRvR PvP approach, but other than a few fossils who have been playing MMOs since the 80s I didnt see a lot of joy about that either.
No Housing..disappointing
No AH...incredible
PvE 'end game' dubious and getting thrown together
Raiding... more semantics
Exploration...almost zero
Interacting with random world items... non existent beyond quests
Character creation...templates and simple color palettes, embarrassing
Stuff we do know is disappointing and questionable. So really they need to starttalking about what the game does have that will make people want to play it. beyond it being Tamriel.
Or maybe, they are just listening to people with different opinions than you.
From all the people I have chatted with, you are in the loud and obnoxious minority. Just because they do not listen to you does not mean they do not listen to their customers. Not every customer can be right.
Or maybe, they are just listening to people with different opinions than you.
From all the people I have chatted with, you are in the loud and obnoxious minority. Just because they do not listen to you does not mean they do not listen to their customers. Not every customer can be right.
Are you paid to post on forums? A shill? I mean you have just thrown a blanket over the forums here on site referring to all of us as the loud obnoxious minority... while consistently shining on the sunny side so emphatically that one wonders if you are blind from the glare and need some shades. It's pretty clear by now that they didn't listen to Elder Scrolls series players when putting together what amounts to a three sided PVP battleground with an unneeded side portion of PVE for leveling. I can't help but sympathize with them regardless of my personal views. If a contrary opinion is so threatening then don't bother reading anything.
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer Pretty sure this is a fanboi thread, and I'll gladly answer : Nobody cares. The only reason this game will even be able to break sale records is because it's called Elder Scrolls. Let's have a discussion 12 weeks after release to see how many are actually left playing. By the time TESO releases, D3's expansion Reapers of Soul will be out and I got to admit, the game will kick some serious butt and it's about time Blizzard woke the hell up. TESO is over hyped, end of story.
Umm D3? You are comparing 20 year old tech overhead scrolling cheap looking maps to a triple A MMORPG? Be serious please.
As to Beta,i agree it NEEDS a Beta and real soon,problem is we all know by now that Beta's are not real Beta's they are treated as gimmicks to entice pre orders.They need about 2 days of testing to do al l hat really seems to matter to developers,to test the server structure.
There has been a couple foreign games Aion and Archeage that both had proper Beta testing,tehy actually stopped release and made changes to meet the satisfaction of the fanbase.I would guarantee that no matter what TESO is releasing on the date stated no matter what happens in Beta.
If i was to guess i would say 8 weeks out,6 weeks out for normal Beta with 2 weeks early access for that pre order gimmick.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have 1 primary concern thus far. Is the game going to be MMO like where there will be a lot of mobs around in the wild to go and hunt? Like camps of mobs, etc that you can kill for loot/xp farming or will it be forced questing with hardly any mobs in the world to hunt how it is in Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind where questing is your means of xp/skill points? I do NOT want to be forced into 1 route of xp and that is questing. I enjoy questing like many others do but I do like having the option to go out and hunt in the wild at camps, or whatever and farm xp which is a nice change of pace. I know this will be a factor for not only myself but a couple buddies who are interested in playing as well.
Forced questing and no means of mob grindng for good xp killed my likes of FFXIV. That excludes the FATEs that were apart of it.
Well we didnt get any news but we got alot of beta invites sent out by the looks.
Hopefully people who havent experienced it yet will get a chance to and will be able to make some first hand observations and opinions rather than blind ones.
I am certainly looking forward to seeing what they have done and what they havent done since the last one.
Hoping we see some significant changes but hard to assume that. Might be pleasantly surprised.
Comments
So, you are saying that the OP is overreacting because he wasn't invited to the 24/7 beta that nobody talks about.
who said anything about game launches being good or bad and how is comparing a game releaing 9 years ago when the MMO market was just coming into play and having no idea what they would expect from open beta being fairly tame to the onslauight that happened when the game went live... and yes i was there i was unfortunatly on blackrock none the less and got my fair share of free time added to my account just like everyone else.
my point of saying i wouldnt expect much from the game is basically in my opinion and yes this is my opinion, but the game has little to nothing to offer, feels clunky and wrong and just doesnt seem like 12 weeks is long enough and seems like another game being forced out the door by the publishers before the decvelopment studio has it right, just dont see a bright future ahead and that has nothing todo with launch week issues
Hilarious. Let's discuss how much of a disappointment Diablo 3 was in comparison to the previous installments of it. Now that's a game that was overhyped. Hah!
This is what im afraid of, I didnt play DaoC so i dont know how it was. but sadly i wasted money on GW2 and experienced some of the worst zerging pvp ever. I hope it isnt like that in this game, and honestly i wont spend money on it till i find out for sure.
personally i like open world pvp and fighting over hunting spots and quest and such, but the whole run around in a zerg flipping castles/towers/check points or what ever is not my cup of tea.
You can't avoid zerging, even DAoC had it. The main difference between DAoC zerg and GW2 ones is that GW2 zerg exist mostly to farm karma.
ESO isn't about farming karma. It might turn into Alliance point farming depending on the implementation, but Cyrodiil also have dungeons and quests, so it's not all about taking and losing keeps and towers either.
Unless you've beta tested the game extensively(which I HIGHLY doubt) no one can say all that much about it because there hasnt been many betas nor much information about the game released. Right now its like were walking into it semi-blindly knowing some basic stuff about the game but not much in terms of depth. We know the basics - Levels, skill points, gear, etc, etc, etc. This is all pointed at your comment regarding them not taking player feedback. You do not know that for sure. If you do, then how? We havent seen much of the game, nor really played it so we dont know jack sh.. about it yet. Its all speculation right now.
Some people have beta tested it as extensively as they have been allowed. Thats another red flag. I think they have had 13 or 14 beta invites, most of those EXTREMELY limited in the number of people they invited. I have seen more than one less than five. Obviously the earlier the build the more lenient one is. But this last beta was the biggest one yet. At least in terms of numbers, and even that one was a small number in comparison to other games who have rolling betas. The obvious stuff is getting fixed. Obvious like, falling through the world, missing NPCs, missing or hashed video renderings etc.
So it really isnt 'test' its, find the obvious things like spelling errors and spots you still fall though the world or where you become glued to world objects and cant move. Or loading screens dont load or whatever other generic stuff that happens in video games and bring it to our attention. Other than crafting there doesnt seem to be any effort at all to change anything within the game itself. Now after the bad opinions from this past beta maybe they are doing something a little more drastic and maybe why there has been little to no news (other than announcing a hard release date). But thats just it. The comments in this forum and in beta forums were predominately negative. As in overwhelmingly negative. Yet the only official comments they have made since that beta was the release date. Nothing since, other than some generic PvP video and an explanation that created more questions and concerns than anything else.
Maybe theyre just oblivious (I doubt it) and they think this game is still all the rage, so theyre treating it like a forgone conclusion that it will be a massive success. I doubt theyre that deluded but who really knows.
Or maybe they have already put all their eggs into a basket and cant change now.
The announcement of the release date was a sever negative, and I think a lot of people who have played the betas would agree to that as well. because it puts the 'what you see is what you get' aspect of the game in hard focus.
Since they havent said "we have taken player concerns into account and many aspect have been addressed" or whatever marketing speak they want to use, then you can assume they havent done jack to the game since the last beta but fix the voice overs, or addressed holes in the world or sticking points. Certainly nothing substantial. if they had I am sure they would have said something.
At least comment on crafting. The one thing they have publicly acknowledged to some degree and have supposedly revamped completely. Since we havent heard anything we really dont know what they have done to it. I suspect it will come back as generic and one dimensional as the crafting in he other games they have produced. Which for many will be just another disappointment. But util we hear something official or see something I will temper that assumption. Theyre are already enough known things to be concerned about without worrying about stuff we arent sure about yet.
As far as people in other threads talking about it being a catch-22 and people getting tired of 'over hyping'. Straw man 101 there. if they are releasing ANYTHING then that is a red flag. There is an expectation of information concerning games, they have fallen far short and continue to get further behind expected information thresh holds.
What we know today 3 months from release is basically what we have known for over a year/ Other than some 'bad' stuff that we have come to realize about the game. Not a positive if you ask me. Has there been a SINGLE release of OFFICIAL information that has gotten people EXCITED? Just ONE. I would say no. We can debate the whole 'old school' RvRvR PvP approach, but other than a few fossils who have been playing MMOs since the 80s I didnt see a lot of joy about that either.
No Housing..disappointing
No AH...incredible
PvE 'end game' dubious and getting thrown together
Raiding... more semantics
Exploration...almost zero
Interacting with random world items... non existent beyond quests
Character creation...templates and simple color palettes, embarrassing
Stuff we do know is disappointing and questionable. So really they need to starttalking about what the game does have that will make people want to play it. beyond it being Tamriel.
Or maybe, they are just listening to people with different opinions than you.
From all the people I have chatted with, you are in the loud and obnoxious minority. Just because they do not listen to you does not mean they do not listen to their customers. Not every customer can be right.
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
Are you paid to post on forums? A shill? I mean you have just thrown a blanket over the forums here on site referring to all of us as the loud obnoxious minority... while consistently shining on the sunny side so emphatically that one wonders if you are blind from the glare and need some shades. It's pretty clear by now that they didn't listen to Elder Scrolls series players when putting together what amounts to a three sided PVP battleground with an unneeded side portion of PVE for leveling. I can't help but sympathize with them regardless of my personal views. If a contrary opinion is so threatening then don't bother reading anything.
Umm D3? You are comparing 20 year old tech overhead scrolling cheap looking maps to a triple A MMORPG? Be serious please.
As to Beta,i agree it NEEDS a Beta and real soon,problem is we all know by now that Beta's are not real Beta's they are treated as gimmicks to entice pre orders.They need about 2 days of testing to do al l hat really seems to matter to developers,to test the server structure.
There has been a couple foreign games Aion and Archeage that both had proper Beta testing,tehy actually stopped release and made changes to meet the satisfaction of the fanbase.I would guarantee that no matter what TESO is releasing on the date stated no matter what happens in Beta.
If i was to guess i would say 8 weeks out,6 weeks out for normal Beta with 2 weeks early access for that pre order gimmick.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
I have 1 primary concern thus far. Is the game going to be MMO like where there will be a lot of mobs around in the wild to go and hunt? Like camps of mobs, etc that you can kill for loot/xp farming or will it be forced questing with hardly any mobs in the world to hunt how it is in Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind where questing is your means of xp/skill points? I do NOT want to be forced into 1 route of xp and that is questing. I enjoy questing like many others do but I do like having the option to go out and hunt in the wild at camps, or whatever and farm xp which is a nice change of pace. I know this will be a factor for not only myself but a couple buddies who are interested in playing as well.
Forced questing and no means of mob grindng for good xp killed my likes of FFXIV. That excludes the FATEs that were apart of it.
Well we didnt get any news but we got alot of beta invites sent out by the looks.
Hopefully people who havent experienced it yet will get a chance to and will be able to make some first hand observations and opinions rather than blind ones.
I am certainly looking forward to seeing what they have done and what they havent done since the last one.
Hoping we see some significant changes but hard to assume that. Might be pleasantly surprised.