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Rust - BEWARE TO PURCHASE

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  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by jacktors
    "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."

     

     

    I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong. 

    I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 



    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.

     

     For all anyone knows sales of both titles could have been 2x higher if he wasn't a dick so you have no evidence to say whether it has or has not hurt him based on sales.

    Steam: Neph

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Nephaerius

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
     For all anyone knows sales of both titles could have been 2x higher if he wasn't a dick so you have no evidence to say whether it has or has not hurt him based on sales.

    It's been on Steam's "Top Sellers" page for the entire duration of their Winter Sale and it hasn't been on sale. It's #13 in the list of top 100 games, and it's topped out at over 25k players today, more than double the 12k it was at in my last post. That's at least $500,000 generated by the game, minus Valve's cut. I'm pretty sure the developer isn't worried about that one guy who complained, or that one Twitter post.

    The game and the developer are doing just fine.

    **

    The point is that individuals like to think they matter, and the reality is that they don't. One vote or one sale doesn't matter. Unless this thread turns into some kind of movement, the impact is effectively nothing.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.

    <snip collection of search results that don't reflect the developer's advertising budget>

     

    OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business.

    The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.




    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    When you realize it wasn't what you said but the way you said it which put you in this position, you will have entered your way into a larger world of justice and leave behind the world of injustice you perceive.

    It is good to always conduct yourself with civility. It is when you have been treated poorly that it becomes essential.

    Agreed. Both parties here could benefit from that wisdom.

    SideNote: Are Indie games using controversy as a marketing tool now? Seems to me like it has been happening quite frequently lately.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by TheMaahes
    Originally posted by Zorgo When you realize it wasn't what you said but the way you said it which put you in this position, you will have entered your way into a larger world of justice and leave behind the world of injustice you perceive. It is good to always conduct yourself with civility. It is when you have been treated poorly that it becomes essential.
    Agreed. Both parties here could benefit from that wisdom.

    SideNote: Are Indie games using controversy as a marketing tool now? Seems to me like it has been happening quite frequently lately.




    It's probably more that people who are interested in developing games rather than community interactions are getting air time.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones


    It's probably more that people who are interested in developing games rather than community interactions are getting air time.

    Ah, very true.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.

     

     

    OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business.

    The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.



    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.

     

    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.

    What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising.

    I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth.

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm

    As for his personality - he admits he is an asshole and enjoys it. You can stick up for him but even he admits it.

    http://m.pcgamer.com/2010/07/26/community-heroes-garry-newman-for-garrys-mod

    "

    PC Gamer: You're known for being a little less, uh, diplomatic with some of your more deranged fans, in terms of banning people from your forums or mocking their e-mails on your blog. Have there ever been any negative repercussions from that - anyone caused you any trouble? Do you think you've ever lost any sales from it?

    Garry Newman: Well yeah. I really didn't want to have a forum. People begged and begged, so eventually I said OKAY - I'll set one up - but I'm not going to have it filled with total illiterate kids. This is a privilege - not a right. So I wrote scripts that banned them automatically for bad spelling and grammar, or for using words like WTF, FFS, OMG, LOL.. The reaction was pretty funny. People claimed I was denying them the right to free speech, and that they'd file a class action lawsuit against me if they didn't get unbanned.

    I don't think there were any negative repercussions with my attitude about this. It probably gave me publicity, maybe not good publicity, but it's better to be known for being an asshole than not be known at all. And being an asshole is so much easier than being nice and making an effort with people.

    "

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by greenreen Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.     OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business. The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.
    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.  
    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.

    What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising.

    I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth.

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm




    There is a difference between a company spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on advertising, and a company like the teeny, tiny one that's developing Rust spending nearly $0 on advertising.

    If Rust has a lot of good word of mouth advertising, then the game is good, and it will sell. This isn't any different than any other game that's ever been released. Good Game = More Sales. One person having an issue and the developer being a d!ck matter very little compared to a Good Game.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.     OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business. The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.
    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.  
    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.

     

    What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising.

    I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth.

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm



    There is a difference between a company spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on advertising, and a company like the teeny, tiny one that's developing Rust spending nearly $0 on advertising.

    If Rust has a lot of good word of mouth advertising, then the game is good, and it will sell. This isn't any different than any other game that's ever been released. Good Game = More Sales. One person having an issue and the developer being a d!ck matter very little compared to a Good Game.

     

    Uh...

    >_> <_<

    0_o

  • DeathageDeathage charlotte, NCPosts: 146Member

    While the banning of the guy that explicitly advocated spamming their help desk is justified as well as the guy who swore (technically "abusive language" but still a little over-reactive on the mod's part), I don't see how the banning of the OP was justified. I guess I can understand how they could think he was advocating spamming their help desk, but there are a couple ways to interpret what he said.

    I took him to mean "I have this problem; if anyone else is sharing my experience here is a link to the help desk page. Hopefully if there are enough of us having this problem it will be solved faster."

    Nowhere in the wording of his post did I perceive any kind of malicious intent. Thats messed up, Rust.

    Obviously its the privilege of the company to perceive things however they please and act accordingly, but I'd like to think theres a greater truth to all this

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.     OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business. The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.
    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.  
    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.   What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising. I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm
    There is a difference between a company spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on advertising, and a company like the teeny, tiny one that's developing Rust spending nearly $0 on advertising. If Rust has a lot of good word of mouth advertising, then the game is good, and it will sell. This isn't any different than any other game that's ever been released. Good Game = More Sales. One person having an issue and the developer being a d!ck matter very little compared to a Good Game.  
    Uh...

    >_> <_<

    0_o



    Since the developer isn't paying for advertising, the word of mouth is coming from people playing the game. If the game is good, the word of mouth will be good. If the game is bad, the word of mouth will be bad. The game is selling like crazy on Steam, so the word of mouth appears to be good. Good Game = More Sales.

    **

    I forgot the point of what I was saying. The quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.     OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business. The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.
    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.  
    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.   What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising. I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm
    There is a difference between a company spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on advertising, and a company like the teeny, tiny one that's developing Rust spending nearly $0 on advertising. If Rust has a lot of good word of mouth advertising, then the game is good, and it will sell. This isn't any different than any other game that's ever been released. Good Game = More Sales. One person having an issue and the developer being a d!ck matter very little compared to a Good Game.  
    Uh...

     

    >_> <_<

    0_o



    Since the developer isn't paying for advertising, the word of mouth is coming from people playing the game. If the game is good, the word of mouth will be good. If the game is bad, the word of mouth will be bad. The game is selling like crazy on Steam, so the word of mouth appears to be good. Good Game = More Sales.

     

    So quit saying they weren't advertised. That's what I'm trying to get across to you. It doesn't matter if the developer paid for it or not, that's what you are missing. By the way, where is your proof they paid for no advertising. I can't keep acknowledging that without something behind it other than your word.

    I hope you know that games purchased on Steam give up some of that money to them. That is considered a cost for using their advertising network. Each time I close Steam it shows me games for sale on special. That's part of what you pay for. You are coming off as really not knowing what you are talking about here. If you repeat the same thing again, I think I should block you rather than respond. Bottom line, you are wrong. They were advertised and they are still being advertised and it's in the range of 30% of the sales in fees. I hung out with an Indie dev for awhile who talked about it. Gave reasons why to go with them and when not to use them.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by greenreen

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by jacktors "I mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating here. If the game is a good game, it will sell. It doesn't matter how much of a d!ck the developer is if the game works as advertised. The developer can ban people who try to get banned from their forums left and right and it will change absolutely nothing. People can post until their fingers bleed here and again, it will change nothing. The only thing that matters is the game."     I am sorry, Lizardbones, but I do not agree with you.  There is something called customer/product loyalty out there. And I, for one, am a huge fan of it. But it goes both ways.  If I shop in a store, and I do not feel welcomed, or worse, If I am spoken to rudely, I will not ever shop in that store again. The same goes for this situation.  Based on what I have read, this guy Garry Newman does not sound like anyone I would like to do business with. He is hurting his own business.  And if you think that his bad attitude hasn't hurt his pocket, you are very wrong.  I have been in the retail customer service business for over 29 years, and I have wanted to say and do the same things that Garry Newman has done.  But as a business professional, I understand that it would be a grave mistake.  There is an old saying... If you do a good deed, They will tell 5 people, If you do a bad deed, They will tell 25 people"  This Garry Newman has done a very bad deed toward his new company.  He has personally lost many potential customers because of it, including me. I could care less if this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... I will never give a dime to a company run by a person who treats his customers this way. 
    And yet Rust has sold at least 12k copies in its alpha state with little or no advertising. Garry's Mod has made something like $22M. I would assume the developer's behavior has been more or less the same this whole time, and it hasn't seemed to slow anything down. I can only surmise that the product is one that people will buy regardless of how much of a d!ck the developer is. Or, perhaps the developer isn't as much of a d!ck as we've been lead to believe.  
    Err, I think you can take back that "no advertising" thought. They were advertised plenty and they have the youtube vids especially to prove it. Closing in on half the videos as WOW as long as it's been out and you don't call that advertised. This game was advertised plenty, even I heard about it and I don't have steam at all.     OP, I'm taking your thoughts to heart, this doesn't sound like a dev team I want to get associated with so I have 0 interest now in this game. Badmouthing customers after the fact just is nasty. No matter how crappy people act, you have to act professional if you have a business or yes, it does speak about your business. The forum-ites here called the Greed Monger developer out when they acted up. I don't think being in the business any longer gives you the right to act worse.
    There's a difference between a developer advertising their game with 4 videos, and players advertising a game with hundreds of thousands of "Let's Play" videos that are copied and replayed by people who didn't even make the videos.  
    You are out of touch with advertising. It doesn't have to be paid for by the company to "count". It's why companies participate in social media at all. It's why they long for a viral video. Advertising is not only advertising if it comes from paying a set amount of money to run an ad with increasing pay from the clicks collected.   What you wanted to say was probably that the company didn't throw money at advertising but claiming that they weren't advertised is false. Unfortunately you didn't show any evidence of it so I'm trusting that you know somehow the money they spent and worked there? Else you would have shown evidence of their spending to support your statement? I would argue that any interview done about the game too was advertising. I'm not arguing semantics, I'm outlining that word of mouth advertising is more valued than paid advertising and everyone in the field knows it. It's the gem people wish to get - one person telling two people - who tell two more people etc. Certainly you know why companies want you to like/favorite/friend them? It's not because they get a thrill out of the numbers, it's because many people rely on what their friends will say has been tested and is acceptable to them. It's why brand names are on clothes and purses or any merchandise - if you see that name in someone else's hands, it gains value suddenly and that too is an unpaid ad.  If you don't see advertising in any discussion then you are the sort of person advertising works on and exactly why companies value it most as word of mouth. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-word-of-mouth-advertising.htm
    There is a difference between a company spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on advertising, and a company like the teeny, tiny one that's developing Rust spending nearly $0 on advertising. If Rust has a lot of good word of mouth advertising, then the game is good, and it will sell. This isn't any different than any other game that's ever been released. Good Game = More Sales. One person having an issue and the developer being a d!ck matter very little compared to a Good Game.  
    Uh...   >_> <_< 0_o
    Since the developer isn't paying for advertising, the word of mouth is coming from people playing the game. If the game is good, the word of mouth will be good. If the game is bad, the word of mouth will be bad. The game is selling like crazy on Steam, so the word of mouth appears to be good. Good Game = More Sales.  
    So quit saying they weren't advertised. That's what I'm trying to get across to you. It doesn't matter if the developer paid for it or not, that's what you are missing. By the way, where is your proof they paid for no advertising. I can't keep acknowledging that without something behind it other than your word.

    I hope you know that games purchased on Steam give up some of that money to them. That is considered a cost for using their advertising network. Each time I close Steam it shows me games for sale on special. That's part of what you pay for. You are coming off as really not knowing what you are talking about here. If you repeat the same thing again, I think I should block you rather than respond. Bottom line, you are wrong. They were advertised and they are still being advertised.



    The developer didn't advertise Rust.

    **

    When the ads show up, that's the developer advertising Rust.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member

    They use PayPal?


    Call your credit card company and initiate a "chargeback" due to "product never received". It will go into "Dispute Resolution". If it goes the normal way, either they give you the product or you get your $36 back from them, and PayPal will give the seller a $20 chargeback fee.

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member


    Originally posted by lizardbones

    The quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.

    Wrong.

    If the developer has enough credit card disputes, then their merchant service / credit card processor will drop them. Then they have to re-write their payment system or they get no sales at all.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Barrikor
    Originally posted by lizardbonesThe quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.

    Wrong.

    If the developer has enough credit card disputes, then their merchant service / credit card processor will drop them. Then they have to re-write their payment system or they get no sales at all.




    Well, there's always a point past which things break down. In this particular case, sales are up, so whatever the OP was going on about hasn't had much effect, if any, short of letting people know the game is there.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member


    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Barrikor
    Originally posted by lizardbonesThe quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.

    Wrong.

    If the developer has enough credit card disputes, then their merchant service / credit card processor will drop them. Then they have to re-write their payment system or they get no sales at all.




    Well, there's always a point past which things break down. In this particular case, sales are up, so whatever the OP was going on about hasn't had much effect, if any, short of letting people know the game is there.

    You have a point there.

    Sorry I was a bit rude there. Developers who screw with people's money annoy me.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Barrikor
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Barrikor
    Originally posted by lizardbonesThe quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.

    Wrong.

    If the developer has enough credit card disputes, then their merchant service / credit card processor will drop them. Then they have to re-write their payment system or they get no sales at all.




    Well, there's always a point past which things break down. In this particular case, sales are up, so whatever the OP was going on about hasn't had much effect, if any, short of letting people know the game is there.

    You have a point there.

    Sorry I was a bit rude there. Developers who screw with people's money annoy me.




    Meh. No biggie. People who whine about developers and try to paint scenarios always in their favor annoy me too. One of the following things has to be happening here though.

    * The developer really is a d!ck, but it's not affecting sales in the least. This will put a limit on sales of the game, but that limit hasn't been reached yet.
    * The developer was a d!ck in an isolated case, possibly with cause, possibly not. In any event, not enough of a d!ck to affect sales, as many people seem happy with the developer and the game.
    * The developer is not a d!ck so much as they are just a normal person, and not inclined to take any cr@p off of anyone they don't have to, customer or not. At some point in the future, because they are capable of writing good games, they'll have a customer service staff to deal with people.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • firefoxifirefoxi helmondPosts: 54Member
    OP: If this was my game, you wouldn't come anywhere near it. And even if you by any chance did, you would probably get banned within a few days for flaming / racism / whatever.
  • plat0nicplat0nic new york, NYPosts: 301Member
    Originally posted by Barrikor

     


    Originally posted by lizardbones

    The quality of the game is more important than the developer being a d!ck as it relates to sales.


     

    Wrong.

    If the developer has enough credit card disputes, then their merchant service / credit card processor will drop them. Then they have to re-write their payment system or they get no sales at all.

    Yep exactly, it's surprisingly low as well before a credit card processor will boot the game all together

     

    image
    Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
    2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Both parties involved took the wrong approach, customer and company in my eyes. I will stay away from this company, they could had took a better approach regardless of a couple childish customers.

    image

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,484Member Uncommon

    Just some update on the type of person Garry Newman is. He's a griefer supporter, plain and simple. He designed Rust for griefers by a griefer. His latest interview with PCGamer basically states, I really haven't played any other zombie games, but this is how it should be done and despite enjoying Rust for the current time being, I can now say with 100% certainty that Garry is piss poor designer and no clue wtf he is doing with his game.

    I know Rust is supposed to be a hardcore game, I get that and I approve. However, when you design a game that promotes griefing with no way to combat it, you are basically saying I love griefing and don't care if it ruins my game.

    Prime example of his approach to siege in Rust is to allow attackers to build whatever next to and or connected to your buildings. That's perfect fine, but what about being able to destroy said objects? Garry says hell no, I love griefing, deal with it. So, that is Garry in a nut shell.

    Not a very social savvy kind of guy. Great at modding but no friggin clue about business.

    image

  • genoshangenoshan WollongongPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    I read this who post, thread by thread. Only one person mentioned the most important thing.

    The forums are separate from the game. He was banned from their forums not from the game. If someone was slagging me out on my forums, I would ban them too.

    I play this game, have around 200 hours up. It is worth buying, it is fun ... All you people saying I will avoid this due to some whining kid about being forum banned ... Plain stupid.

    I like that the developer chooses to not tolerate idiots.

  • zastenzasten nowherePosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by Omali

    OP was banned for being abusive and flaming on the forums. The OP of the thread he was banned in was banned for encouraging people to spam customer service. As Garry says, being abusive is not how you get help, and they are in a position where they don't have to put up with it.

    Well I'm in a position where I don't have to put up with being banned after paying money!

    Simply not going to go anywhere near a company that does this!

  • elen65elen65 davao cityPosts: 9Member
    Thanks for the info
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