Originally posted by XxGrimmxX I would imagine that an mmo that took 10 years to make would probably have dated graphics by the time it was actually released.
Just like now? High end graphics 10 years ago are as good as mmo's today. Surely there is a way to minimalize that.
There must be an excuse university somewhere. Nothing is possible and if it is no one will play it.
The issue is how much more an MMO has to render on the fly. It's constantly change and thus more stress on a gfx card/cpu than normal games which can get ahead of the curve because basically everything can be accounted for pretty easily making optimization really easy. Or, so I would guess.
I'm not even gonna dignify this stupid idea with a vote. You obviously don't know anything about game development. I'm trying not to offend, but it is kind of hard with just a flat out stupid idea.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
The person at the top would take 60% of the revenue, the two people below would collectively take 30%, leaving the remaining 10% to be divided amongst everyone else.
A vast majority of the 50k would be underpaid, living paycheck to paycheck. They'd have to come up with an alternate source of revenue so you'd see a cash shop. You have to get people to use the cash shop so you take away needed features.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the perfect game.........
Is a game great because it has a huge team of developers, or is it great because the people making the decisions made the right ones ?
With 50,000 minds its difficult to make a wrong decision. Even if you bring the right decisions, you would still lack the time, resources to execute em properly and on top your anonymity would seal the deal for your product to ever gain attention to the global market.
There is a reason why ants, bees and so on work together. Look at U.S, Russia, China, and now Europe (united for a reason)
Contries do not unite without a good reason and that good reason is so they can feel secure, to bring their own decisions and to deliver the best technologies, movies and so on to the global market.
With 50,000 minds it's difficult to make any decision.
We didn't overlook his point. We are trying to get across to him it's not the lack of workforce or cash thrown at the MMOs that is the problem with recent MMOs.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
So basically 1 game for all the gamers in the world? Looking at how diverse players' preferences are, the game might not even get enough players to keep the developers afloat.
Your maths are failed, firstly can you show me a game that even today has 50mill subs EVERY month
Secondly how many games charge $30 per month, 10 yes 15 maybe, but 30 not a chance...
Thirdly, you have failed to consider hardware, consider blizzard and their behemoth of a game, do they make every cent of their game in profit, hell no, i would hazard a guess at best about 20-30% of the subs is considered profit.
Fouth.... is everyone developing the game from a single 'pre-made' piece of software, or does it require software to make said game Unity i was reading costs in region of 10k (minimum) per seat / user, so 50k of this as well.
Your niaive to even think this would work, personally in 10years you would do better to get the guys to work on models to sort out cancer / aids and other diseases
or how about alternate fuels, if you had 500,000 man years of development, why waste it on a game, and why not do something that will offer far more....
In case you're genuinely interested, there is actually a lot of academic work and management mantra around development team sizes. Typically large projects would be broken up into small projects and teams of half a dozen or so would work in parallel. Terminologies used are typically scrums, squads, chapters, tribes and guilds so you could try googling them.
Originally posted by Kamofila I'm not even gonna dignify this stupid idea with a vote. You obviously don't know anything about game development. I'm trying not to offend, but it is kind of hard with just a flat out stupid idea.
you and a lot of people took his idea too literal. I think what he simply meant was "with infinite available laborforce..." basically a scenario where "we're a small team" does not apply. It doesn't mean one guy will sculpt the hand of the female dwarf and another guy the left foot and 5 guys the face. that'd end up frankensteinish.
he probably had in mind something along the lines of one guy per model while another guy makes trees, another guy makes grass, a bunch of guys walk around looking over shoulder so no green martians appear as a race in an arctic prehistoric setting and so on.
if we re-phrase the concept a "a team where labor is not a problem vs many thin-stretche small teams" we're probably seeing what the OP was picturing. His numbers are made up to illustrate his concept so looking at them strictly is a mistake.
------------------
To adress the topic, it sounds a lot like the 90s NASA plan for a Mars human mission.
Big team plan:
build big rockets, dock them with ISS, expand the ISS. Use it to assemble bigger rockets in space, carry people and equipment to Mars. On mars build stuff that extracts fuel, wait to fill the tank, fly big rocket back to ISS, take maller rocket back to Earth.
Small team plan:
build small rocket. Fly it to mars with materials from Earth.
send second small rocketfrom Earth with robot. use robot to construct on Mars.
send third small rocket from Earth with a few people. Use what Robot built on Mars, incluing fuel gathered from atmosphere by the stuff the robot built.
wonder around, fill the tank, fly home, land on earth.
cost difference was about 110 billion dollars.
When he starts saying, '50,000 people can't make wrong decisions', he is talking litterally, which is why it's such an idiotic idea.
Unlimited labor is a different issue, it'd be useful for crunch time, but he's talking about some Borg like hive mind crap and sounds like he's never worked with anyone else in he's life.
When he starts saying, '50,000 people can't make wrong decisions', he is talking litterally, which is why it's such an idiotic idea.
Unlimited labor is a different issue, it'd be useful for crunch time, but he's talking about some Borg like hive mind crap and sounds like he's never worked with anyone else in he's life.
granted. I chose to ignore that part as there's not much interesting to see here if we go that route.
I think he saying 50000 people are more likely to make the decision that will benefit everyone. That's not ever making the wrong one, but it has different self-interests. These things have been around and have worked for many years.
kickstarter is just another try.
You guys go straight for the mental supremacy, which is true, but at least tell us why it's bad from your point of view.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Designing a game is not like digging a canal or building the great wall of China.
There are countless instances where you can only have one person or a few people working on the same problem at the same time.
Even when digging a canal you cant use all of the work force when you are planning the construction.
And if you have to assign tasks to 50000 people to work on for 10 years its going to be so detailed you might as we be doing the work yourself. So 1 man could do the game design work of 50000 people just as well.. While allowing for differences in competenses... not everyone is an artist.
And it was finally launched in 2015, would those 50,000 see more $ in their pockets from it in the long run over what they delivered individually between 2005-2015?
If that game was delivered, just think about the perffection of polish, complexity, features, music, innovations, possibilities, security and so on it would offer and how much people would be willing to pay to experience it...
Imagine 50 million players (minimum) paying $30 a month = 1.5 billion PROFIT PER MONTH = 18 billion a year (minus taxes + box sales, cash shop etc) = 20 bil a year for 50,000 people, which means each one would earn $400,000 per year.
Bottom line TEAMWORK PAYS OFF and I went with the minimum $30. Every single one of those 50,000 developing that game over the 10 years would be receiving 1 million estimated per year for the next 10-20 years.
Fact is there are 1.2 billion gamers and I only considered 50 mil...And seriosly do you think anyone would even remotely come close to compete with something being developed by 50,000 people for 10 years straight?
Richer or poorer one thing is certain. We would all get to experience A TRUE EPIC, ONE OF A KIND GAME that we could enjoy until the end of our lifetime...
Just imagine, having 50,000 minds focused on one single project working together..there would be no place for risks and even if risks occured they would be immediatly eliminated.
Mmorpg's problems are in 90% dependent on tastes, I don't like that, I like this etc. If I prefer dynamic action, and 50.000 people decide to go with turn based, the game still sucks for me. It is not like majority vote suddenly makes one option smarter than the other. Don't understand reasoning behind that.
Another terrible asumption is that amount of time and people is proportional to the quality of end product, which could be in many cases the complete opposite. I imediately get the feeling this game would suck hard because of the number of people working on it and the number of problems they face in a huge development team like that. It feels like a parody. It sounds to me like saying, would 100 painters make one incredible painting together by putting paint strokes one after another.... of course not, they wouldn't make sh*t that way.
And the math is blasphemy, it hurts my eyes. Like a 5yo summarization of economy. I give, I get... Seriously, I would expect some more knowledge of industry from someone who comes up with such ridiculous idea, to atleast back it up a little and seem less retarded.
Well, yeah. If we're going to imagine ridiculous ideas, instead of imagining 50k people all working on the same project, why not imagine advances in technology that allow 10 people to procedurally generate a living, breathing world?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Quirhid I feel like this is a fantasy of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about."Lets build a ladder to the moon out of chopsticks!"
Or a space elevator out of spider silk.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
In the MMO that would be developed by 50 000 persons for 10 years straight:
-The game would be delivered on a truck because it would need more than 1000 DVDs. Installation would take some weeks of non-stop DVD switching
-The introduction video would tell you a story about how you're a jedi, in prehistoric times, on alien planet, fighting against zombie nazis, using superpowers you gain from Earth's sun, in order to stop the terrorist threat on white house.
-In order to go forward you'd have to open a menu and select from 25 different modes of proceeding like "crawl forward", "dash forward", or "dive headfirst forward". Walking would not be an option because of some kind of communication error between the devs.
-Afterwards the game would crash due to it being so complex that any change causes about 100 bugs.
Originally posted by Vrika In the MMO that would be developed by 50 000 persons for 10 years straight:-The game would be delivered on a truck because it would need more than 1000 DVDs. Installation would take some weeks of non-stop DVD switching-The introduction video would tell you a story about how you're a jedi, in prehistoric times, on alien planet, fighting against zombie nazis, using superpowers you gain from Earth's sun, in order to stop the terrorist threat on white house.-In order to go forward you'd have to open a menu and select from 25 different modes of proceeding like "crawl forward", "dash forward", or "dive headfirst forward". Walking would not be an option because of some kind of communication error between the devs.-Afterwards the game would crash due to it being so complex that any change causes about 100 bugs.
You would get this.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Even in a fantasy scenario, the top priority is the status quo.
A silly post can show us that no matter what tools they have at their disposal, everyone still wonders where all the money went.
There will always be an excuse, even with all the manpower and time and money, we get bad jokes and dismissal. Oh and typical f2p game we've seen the last decade.
I bet rockstar "could' use it to make gta online worldwide the size of a Texas on all platforms in all lauguages with their own economy and virtual currency. with deals from all the car makers and advertisers and musicians and actors...even local favorites.
and make more money than this industry on launch.
With unlimited manpower and capital of coarse. What did you guys say again?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Fill free to invest "your own money" to make it work.
50 million players playing the same mmo is very unrealistic.
Well they didn't like farming ...
If blizzard would have made diablo online instead of WOW, they would have 50+ million subs and none of these DIKU mmos would have shared and squandered it's potential kingdom. Plus COD and Diablo is like bread and butter.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Comments
The issue is how much more an MMO has to render on the fly. It's constantly change and thus more stress on a gfx card/cpu than normal games which can get ahead of the curve because basically everything can be accounted for pretty easily making optimization really easy. Or, so I would guess.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
A vast majority of the 50k would be underpaid, living paycheck to paycheck. They'd have to come up with an alternate source of revenue so you'd see a cash shop. You have to get people to use the cash shop so you take away needed features.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the perfect game.........
SWTOR
With 50,000 minds it's difficult to make any decision.
We didn't overlook his point. We are trying to get across to him it's not the lack of workforce or cash thrown at the MMOs that is the problem with recent MMOs.
ok
Your maths are failed, firstly can you show me a game that even today has 50mill subs EVERY month
Secondly how many games charge $30 per month, 10 yes 15 maybe, but 30 not a chance...
Thirdly, you have failed to consider hardware, consider blizzard and their behemoth of a game, do they make every cent of their game in profit, hell no, i would hazard a guess at best about 20-30% of the subs is considered profit.
Fouth.... is everyone developing the game from a single 'pre-made' piece of software, or does it require software to make said game Unity i was reading costs in region of 10k (minimum) per seat / user, so 50k of this as well.
Your niaive to even think this would work, personally in 10years you would do better to get the guys to work on models to sort out cancer / aids and other diseases
or how about alternate fuels, if you had 500,000 man years of development, why waste it on a game, and why not do something that will offer far more....
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
When he starts saying, '50,000 people can't make wrong decisions', he is talking litterally, which is why it's such an idiotic idea.
Unlimited labor is a different issue, it'd be useful for crunch time, but he's talking about some Borg like hive mind crap and sounds like he's never worked with anyone else in he's life.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
I think he saying 50000 people are more likely to make the decision that will benefit everyone. That's not ever making the wrong one, but it has different self-interests. These things have been around and have worked for many years.
kickstarter is just another try.
You guys go straight for the mental supremacy, which is true, but at least tell us why it's bad from your point of view.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I feel like this is a fantasy of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
"Lets build a ladder to the moon out of chopsticks!"
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I see it more as a thinking post than anything. Why be embarrassed? Because of dismissal of people here? Ok.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
What a rediculous idea..
Designing a game is not like digging a canal or building the great wall of China.
There are countless instances where you can only have one person or a few people working on the same problem at the same time.
Even when digging a canal you cant use all of the work force when you are planning the construction.
And if you have to assign tasks to 50000 people to work on for 10 years its going to be so detailed you might as we be doing the work yourself. So 1 man could do the game design work of 50000 people just as well.. While allowing for differences in competenses... not everyone is an artist.
Mmorpg's problems are in 90% dependent on tastes, I don't like that, I like this etc. If I prefer dynamic action, and 50.000 people decide to go with turn based, the game still sucks for me. It is not like majority vote suddenly makes one option smarter than the other. Don't understand reasoning behind that.
Another terrible asumption is that amount of time and people is proportional to the quality of end product, which could be in many cases the complete opposite. I imediately get the feeling this game would suck hard because of the number of people working on it and the number of problems they face in a huge development team like that. It feels like a parody. It sounds to me like saying, would 100 painters make one incredible painting together by putting paint strokes one after another.... of course not, they wouldn't make sh*t that way.
And the math is blasphemy, it hurts my eyes. Like a 5yo summarization of economy. I give, I get... Seriously, I would expect some more knowledge of industry from someone who comes up with such ridiculous idea, to atleast back it up a little and seem less retarded.
Well, yeah. If we're going to imagine ridiculous ideas, instead of imagining 50k people all working on the same project, why not imagine advances in technology that allow 10 people to procedurally generate a living, breathing world?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Or a space elevator out of spider silk.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If 50,000 people were hired to develop a single mmo I would cry
Holy inefficiency
edit: read it again
Well no
You would have a mess that probably contradicted itself multiple times, because there would be too much ideas without a general focus
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
In the MMO that would be developed by 50 000 persons for 10 years straight:
-The game would be delivered on a truck because it would need more than 1000 DVDs. Installation would take some weeks of non-stop DVD switching
-The introduction video would tell you a story about how you're a jedi, in prehistoric times, on alien planet, fighting against zombie nazis, using superpowers you gain from Earth's sun, in order to stop the terrorist threat on white house.
-In order to go forward you'd have to open a menu and select from 25 different modes of proceeding like "crawl forward", "dash forward", or "dive headfirst forward". Walking would not be an option because of some kind of communication error between the devs.
-Afterwards the game would crash due to it being so complex that any change causes about 100 bugs.
You would get this.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Even in a fantasy scenario, the top priority is the status quo.
A silly post can show us that no matter what tools they have at their disposal, everyone still wonders where all the money went.
There will always be an excuse, even with all the manpower and time and money, we get bad jokes and dismissal. Oh and typical f2p game we've seen the last decade.
I bet rockstar "could' use it to make gta online worldwide the size of a Texas on all platforms in all lauguages with their own economy and virtual currency. with deals from all the car makers and advertisers and musicians and actors...even local favorites.
and make more money than this industry on launch.
With unlimited manpower and capital of coarse. What did you guys say again?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Fill free to invest "your own money" to make it work.
50 million players playing the same mmo is very unrealistic.
Well they didn't like farming ...
If blizzard would have made diablo online instead of WOW, they would have 50+ million subs and none of these DIKU mmos would have shared and squandered it's potential kingdom. Plus COD and Diablo is like bread and butter.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"