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Forbes Predicting Biggest Disaster of 2014

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  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

     

    That's correct, and this JJ82 is a throw away flaming account, the bulk of the 211 posts are ESO bash posts.

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

    Funnyahns has a point. If you only want to read cosy little love fest comments about ESO then you are probably better off heading to the official temporary forums.

    Seems you and others can't even take anything bad said about the game even if they are constructive comments. Straight away you accuse them of being trolls even if they have played the game. Funny that you claim their opinions don't matter but you still find time to reply to said posts.

    If someone makes a thread with the title "eso is crap" then i can understand but don't come to the rescue like some  ZeniMax knight in shining armour to every single thread/post that does not share your opinions on the game.

    As for me, having played the game and being in beta, ESO is pretty average linear themepark MMO with a couple of twists IMO.

    The IP will carry the game through more than how bad or good the actual game is IMO.image

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    For me the death of the subscription model means the death of the MMO.  I like their explanation on why they went with the subscription model.  I hate the fact that my gaming experience revolves around deciding what features to pay or not to pay for.  I miss the old days where I spend a small monthly fee and just play.

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

    Funnyahns has a point. If you only want to read cosy little love fest comments about ESO then you are probably better off heading to the official temporary forums.

    Seems you and others can't even take anything bad said about the game even if they are constructive comments. Straight away you accuse them of being trolls even if they have played the game. Funny that you claim their opinions don't matter but you still find time to reply to said posts.

    If someone makes a thread with the title "eso is crap" then i can understand but don't come to the rescue like some  ZeniMax knight in shining armour to every single thread/post that does not share your opinions on the game.

    As for me, having played the game and being in beta, ESO is pretty average linear themepark MMO with a couple of twists IMO.

    The IP will carry the game through more than how bad or good the actual game is IMO.image

    No he doesn't have a point, because ....

    I don't care about eso, wont be playing it at launch and don't know enough about it to say if it's good or bad. Everything I know about eso comes from seeing it at pax..and there wasn't much to see at that point.

    The post he quoted is from a guy who can't read and just wants to rant. He picked a comment at almost random and went off. The rant he made had nothing to do with the comment he quoted what-so-ever.Now there are follow up posts like yours that accuse me of being a fanboy to a game I don't really give a shit about and have never defended.

    So yes the original poster in this quote does have an agenda and the people responding like you and funny are more victims of a fool, than making a point against a fanboy of the game.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

    Funnyahns has a point. If you only want to read cosy little love fest comments about ESO then you are probably better off heading to the official temporary forums.

    Seems you and others can't even take anything bad said about the game even if they are constructive comments. Straight away you accuse them of being trolls even if they have played the game. Funny that you claim their opinions don't matter but you still find time to reply to said posts.

    If someone makes a thread with the title "eso is crap" then i can understand but don't come to the rescue like some  ZeniMax knight in shining armour to every single thread/post that does not share your opinions on the game.

    As for me, having played the game and being in beta, ESO is pretty average linear themepark MMO with a couple of twists IMO.

    The IP will carry the game through more than how bad or good the actual game is IMO.image

    No he doesn't have a point, because ....

    Yes he does have a point, your response to my post and his makes it pretty clear. And this "i'm not interested in ESO" is the oldest trick in the book.

    You don't like the thread then you really don't have to partake in it, do you?

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    I agree with the article.

    They spent too much money making another average theme-park game, and thus it will be hard to recoup the investment.

    And it has nothing to do with which business model they chose, instead they depend on the IP to sell boxes instead of creating deep gameplay mechanics and innovative systems. (Plus it is the company of "That's too hard....")

    That is the problem.

     

  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697

    From what I've seen so far, the game is average at best. But...it will not fail as hard as SWTOR, simply because of it server structure. It will not lose additional, ready to quit, players, due to empty servers, the way that SWTOR did.

    And, it will also recoup some investment through console sales, no matter what.

    The only way I see it flopping hard is if public media and players completely trash it after playing open beta (if they even go with open beta, that is).

  • FoeHammerJTFoeHammerJT Member Posts: 148
    Originally posted by Celcius
    That article is more about claiming the sub model is dead then using specific reasons as to why the game will be a big disaster. 

    This is the most salient point in the this entire thread. Blaming SWTORs failings on a sub is ridiculous.

    Star Citizen anyone? Hundreds of thousands of players will line up to give you hundreds and thousands (totaling millions) for just the idea of a game they want. A great game could EASILY charge 30 or 40 bucks a month and be a huge success. 

    The death of the sub model is biggest heist by corporations in recent years. They make more money off fewer players and everyone screams about how great it is.  With the downside that devs are forced to create content to attract whales and get the company paid every month rather than creating genuine content that is good for immersion and the game universe itself.  

    SWTOR failed for so many reason, and a sub wasn't a single one of them.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    I agree with the article.

    They spent too much money making another average theme-park game, and thus it will be hard to recoup the investment.

    And it has nothing to do with which business model they chose, instead they depend on the IP to sell boxes instead of creating deep gameplay mechanics and innovative systems. (Plus it is the company of "That's too hard....")

    That is the problem.

     

    Did you even read the article? ofcourse you didn't. They are just basing their predictions on viability of sub model in todays market.

    It being an average themepark is your own opinion. 

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     Why shouldn't he talk about it? Do you just want to have a hug fest of people who only love the game to discuss it?   You don't want dissenting views that may dissuade people from purchasing it?  Sounds like you have an agenda yourself.

    The problem with him is, he's putting words in peoples "mouths" so he can post his rants. It doesn't make for much of a discussion when it doesn't matter what you say, he's deciding what it means.

    Funnyahns has a point. If you only want to read cosy little love fest comments about ESO then you are probably better off heading to the official temporary forums.

    Seems you and others can't even take anything bad said about the game even if they are constructive comments. Straight away you accuse them of being trolls even if they have played the game. Funny that you claim their opinions don't matter but you still find time to reply to said posts.

    If someone makes a thread with the title "eso is crap" then i can understand but don't come to the rescue like some  ZeniMax knight in shining armour to every single thread/post that does not share your opinions on the game.

    As for me, having played the game and being in beta, ESO is pretty average linear themepark MMO with a couple of twists IMO.

    The IP will carry the game through more than how bad or good the actual game is IMO.image

    No he doesn't have a point, because ....

    Yes he does have a point, your response to my post and his makes it pretty clear. And this "i'm not interested in ESO" is the oldest trick in the book.

    You don't like the thread then you really don't have to partake in it, do you?

    Are you jj82's other account or something? I find it hard to believe there are two of you that share the same affliction that post one right after the other.

    The oldest trick in the book was a laugh though. You know I do have a post history right ? It wouldn't be very hard to look at what I think of the game. I've posted it a few times. They're really brief.... I wont be playing at launch. If it fails I'll be glad I didn't pay for it. If it does well, I'll buy it when it's on sale.

    Yup...that has fanboy written all over it doesn't it ?

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    I agree with the article.

    They spent too much money making another average theme-park game, and thus it will be hard to recoup the investment.

    And it has nothing to do with which business model they chose, instead they depend on the IP to sell boxes instead of creating deep gameplay mechanics and innovative systems. (Plus it is the company of "That's too hard....")

    That is the problem.

     

    Did you even read the article? ofcourse you didn't. They are just basing their predictions on viability of sub model in todays market.

    It being an average themepark is your own opinion. 

    Yes I did read the article, and to me it comes down to the fact that it is not that people won't pay for a sub, it is that they won't pay for a sub, in the current market for the same game, again, for the Nth time.  Because they can play plenty of average games for "free". As such, it will be hard to recoup what they spent on it.

    Were ESO some great, groundbreaking, super game, it would make back plenty of money and then some, regardless of the revenue model. But the isn't great or groundbreaking in any way, it is simply set in the ES world.

    And that is not enough.

     

    As for being average, I tried the beta, and the game is average. Most other people, if they are honest about it, will say the same thing.

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,401

    "I will see your Elder Scrolls Online and raise it with  Star Citizen..."

  • gunmanvladgunmanvlad Member UncommonPosts: 281

    I'd like to see PS3 numbers for FF XIV:ARR before I can formulate an opinion on console owners' pockets.

     

    However, the monthly sub has been a demanded request for quite some time now. In my opinion however it is an easier way out of designing a solid funding system like the one GW2 has. Normally people DO pay some money to support the games they like anyway. Personally I throw 5-10$ a month for F2P titles I enjoy, because that's as much as I find suitable; while friends of my throw somewhere between 5 and 50$ a month. I actually don't know any people who have played a F2P for more than 6 months but never paid a penny for it.

     

    The article is clearly written by a random "forum"-level IQ person who posted on Forbes just because their contributor section is famously retarded. Basing an argument on random internet hearsay and an admitted lack of any serious information is sad and misguided. So I will not talk about it.

     

    However, the themes are interesting:

    Can a subscription MMO be successful? I think so, console games cost a TON more than PC games usually anyway. (Thank you Steam Holiday Sales!)

    Can an Elder Scrolls game be an MMO? I'm split. I always liked TES because I could choose whichever path I wanted. The MMO space is arguably inappropriate for such endeavours. TES can be a great game to play with a small  group of friends, but if you have to grind away against 9999999999 other kids for the chance to become the Archmage for a week or smthg, I would rather stick to solo play.

    Will ESO have enough of a catch to become a major player? VERY much doubt it. There are already so many other good MMOs out there now...WoW, EVE, GW2, etc., all with decent fanbases + FF XIV + upcoming AAA MMOs: Wildstar, Destiny, etc. ... no game will probably go above 10m subscribers again in the near future. It might be reasonably successful, but like ALWAYS, it will depend on the long-term playability...NOT on IP.

  • GillleanGilllean Member Posts: 169

    So tired of wining little girls. COMMON tell me how much TES will fail . 

    NOW to facts 

     

    Paul Tassi posts on forbes.com 

    Second  topic    The Elder Scrolls Online New Screenshots 

    (screen shots are from day when first info about ESO appeared "2 days ago post" )

     

    First topic   Predicting The Biggest Video Game Disaster Of 2014: The Elder Scrolls Online Post 2 days ago | 129,359 views

     

     

    AND you make such a panic because of this stupid person who did no research and didn't study the game both games ESO SWOTR before creating the post? 

    To be honest today I don't trust any one every one dose everything with a hidden purpose. And this is definitely a try to put a seed of insecurity that TES will flop in mind of masses.  I even get message on Skype look what he thinks  and .. see it works perfectly I mean some people believe and go to mmorpg.com  and post about HOW HARD TES WILL FAIL 

    (Just for my own interest Zenimax can sue them for creating such a down rating topic about their product ?)

     

    By the way go to forbes.com  and read some comments which are better structured and based on facts not on "I must make a flop topic about TES"

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    I agree with the article.

    They spent too much money making another average theme-park game, and thus it will be hard to recoup the investment.

    And it has nothing to do with which business model they chose, instead they depend on the IP to sell boxes instead of creating deep gameplay mechanics and innovative systems. (Plus it is the company of "That's too hard....")

    That is the problem.

     

    Did you even read the article? ofcourse you didn't. They are just basing their predictions on viability of sub model in todays market.

    It being an average themepark is your own opinion. 

    Yes I did read the article, and to me it comes down to the fact that it is not that people won't pay for a sub, it is that they won't pay for a sub, in the current market for the same game, again, for the Nth time.  Because they can play plenty of average games for "free". As such, it will be hard to recoup what they spent on it.

    Were ESO some great, groundbreaking, super game, it would make back plenty of money and then some. But the isn't great or groundbreaking in any way, it is simply set in the ES world.

    And that is not enough.

     

    As for being average, I tried the beta, and the game is average. Most other people, if they are honest about it, will say the same thing.

    Of course it was average to you. Since you were probably limited in what you could do. Unless you participated in the meat and potatoes of TESO, that being the warfare in Cyrodil then I highly doubt you would call it average.

    And that just highlights one of the crux's of why the game might not do so well, it has been proven repeatedly, in i don't know how many surveys in various games, that the number of PVE orientated players vs PVP orientated players is roughly about 80% PvE to 20% PvP, of which 'some' of the PvE orientated players are willing to participate, 'in a very casual' fashion in PvP, its simply because TESO is focusing so much on the PvP aspect that the game is perceived to be less than satisfactory, it may be that the PvE side of the game isn't quite as bad as it looks, but it still remains that they are trying to force PvP into a IP that does not have it, so people who buy the game on the strength of the IP, or who might have bought the game on the strength of the IP, are probably going to be dissapointed. I know for one that i certainly am, and as a long time Elder Scrolls fan, i am certainly not happy about how much focus there is on PvP. They should have made a solid PvE based game first, with PvP just being an option, not the focus of the entire game.image

  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030

    The Forbes "article" is not a analysis of any kind and only a opinion piece offering no real empirical data to back it up,the only thing close is the author's own opinion on what happened with SW:TOR,which is the author's only real argument and a dubious one at that.

    I personally do not think that TESO will be a great game but it might be a successful one financially.A lot of the people on the forums championing it are also the ones who only seem to care about games having "realistic" graphics and can't see beyond that one thing.I can appreciate many graphic styles and am not hung up on realism so it's not a selling point to me personally.

    But I am willing to give the game a go and am willing to be surprised,it's just that my initial impressions on what I've been represented so far are meh.I say this as an old DAoC fan who was very disappointed with RvR as it was done in GW2.

    This article however to me is completely unreliable as a basis to form an educated guess on TESO's future.

  • ViperDragonViperDragon Member UncommonPosts: 101

    I'm optimistic.

    Although, I'll say hopeful is perhaps a better word.  I've been looking forward to this since it was announced.  I must have put in 500 hours into Skyrim, so to have something new to play with in this universe, and a proper multiplayer (as opposed to the Mod which, though appreciated, has never worked well) is really exciting.  Keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that Forbes is wrong!

    A great list of free games (mostly MMORPGs): http://www.mytop10games.com/

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    It will be a lot better than SWTOR for sure, that can be seen easily from gameplay footage already, so it won´t fail as hard as SWTOR.

     

    No one can beat the level of fail that SWTOR was, not even TESO. But it will switch to buy to play and paid DLCs soon after launch, probably similiar to TSW which is running great now and has lots of players.

    Oh you mean like SW:TOR?

     

    The level of objectivity on this board always amazes me.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by DamonVile
     

    I think a more appropriate famous quot for the forum going mmo genre is...

    If I asked them what they wanted, they would of said faster horses.

    That's a wonderfully appropriate quote for the MMO community.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    The Forbes "article" is not a analysis of any kind and only a opinion piece offering no real empirical data to back it up,the only thing close is the author's own opinion on what happened with SW:TOR,which is the author's only real argument and a dubious one at that.

    Pure horse manure. Age of Conan, another famous IP that failed to target its audience. Lord of the Rings online, another famous IP that failed to target its audience. And neither of them attempted to target console players. Look at the sales of FF14, more copies on the PC sold than on the console (digital sales being highest) and it isn't even close to FF11 back when subscriptions were cool. Everything points to TESO being a disappointment.

    Do I hope it is? Hell yes, the genre needs as many corporate led failures as possible to get their hands off the genre so game makers can make the games they want, not the games corporations want made in a way to bring in as much money as possible.

    Games need to be the focus again, not profits. A game made with creating something new in mind will bring the profits. Corporations only see green, not the product.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Honestly, i think the hype fro ESO has been diminished greatly as it is that ESO when it comes out likely in a 'disapointing' state, it won't be nearly as bad as say SWTOR that had just vastly more hype around it. I think expectations have been lowered enough that people will be far less disapointed in the game. While Is till feel it will be 'meh' and not have that big of numbers, I just don't see it being the big train wreck deal SWTOR was. So perhaps a big 'disaster' so to speak in 2014, but I doubt anywhere near what it was for SWTOR.
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Honestly, i think the hype fro ESO has been diminished greatly as it is that ESO when it comes out likely in a 'disapointing' state, it won't be nearly as bad as say SWTOR that had just vastly more hype around it. I think expectations have been lowered enough that people will be far less disapointed in the game. While Is till feel it will be 'meh' and not have that big of numbers, I just don't see it being the big train wreck deal SWTOR was. So perhaps a big 'disaster' so to speak in 2014, but I doubt anywhere near what it was for SWTOR.

    What didn't help with TOR, either, is the unfettered arrogance of Bioware/EA in promoting/marketing it. It was obnoxious. EA/Bioware telling people, essentially, you don't know what you want... we do. 

    The more you hype something up, the greater the expectations of it, the bigger the disappointment when they're not met. Bioware/EA set the bar far too high for that game before it even came out. The raving fans around it only made it worse. I remember it was particularly obnoxious around here, where it seemed everyone was in on the love-fest.

    "It will change the way MMOs are designed forever"  -  Remember that claim? Yeah. Didn't happen.

     

  • Kasp3rKasp3r Member Posts: 67
    Forbes came to the conclusion that teso will be a failure mainly because of the monthly sub? Coz that's all I got out of that article
  • HowryHowry Member UncommonPosts: 116
    Hard to argue.
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